arron
1 post
Dec 29, 2014
12:33 PM
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hi guys. i would appreciate some advice. i've been playing for 6 months. my first harp was the big river--C. and i could play each hole out of the box. then i got a special 20--C and lee oskar--A. that's when my troubles began with the proverbial difficult to play two hole draw. after some practice and fine tuning the reed gap i am now able to play all holes of the special 20 without troubles. after lots of practice and lots of fine tuning on the lee oskar reeds (draw and blow on 2 hole) i still cannot get anything that resembles music out of the 2 hole draw. i don't know how to describe the sound but it is bad. which is very unfortunate because the sound of the other holes is amazing, must nicer than the other two harps. i've read lots of web posts about the problem generally and have tried most of the remedies i've read about.
my questions are: 1) after all of this, is it still likely that the culprit is me, not the harp? 2) if i give up on the lee oskar out of frustration, would a hohner harp in the key of A have a similar amazing sound or is that unique to the oskar? 3) would i have similar problems with a different brand of an A key harp--that is, is there something special about the key of A that makes it especially difficult to play the 2 hole draw (i did read on lee oskar website their claim that because there is less air leakage that 2 hole draw is even harder to play). thanks so much for reading and any advice you can provide.
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Steamrollin Stan
811 posts
Dec 29, 2014
12:47 PM
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6 months, the sp20's should be ok ootb, I reckon its a bit early in your harp journey to be messin with gapping etc, focus on the sp20's as they're a good all rounder.
Last Edited by Steamrollin Stan on Dec 29, 2014 12:48 PM
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Pistolcat
749 posts
Dec 29, 2014
1:08 PM
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It is probably you... Maybe you are "aiming" for the wrong note? Sit down by a keyboard and play the second E and try to match that on your two hole draw. What is the fine tuning you have done? Is it really tuning or do you mean gapping?
To get a good answer you can contact a more experienced player in real life. I you are close to Gothenburg, Sweden I can try and help ya :) and
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Pistolkatt - Pistolkatts youtube
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Cotton
32 posts
Dec 29, 2014
1:49 PM
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I am a beginner as well (2 years) I found Lee Oskars very difficult to play in my first year. (larger holes) Also the lower keys seemed to give me more trouble, getting a clear note. I now have no trouble with a lower key or Lee Oskars. Stick with it, it just takes time and practice.
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orphan
381 posts
Dec 29, 2014
1:52 PM
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Hi arron, Welcome to the forum.
1)"after all of this, is it still likely that the culprit is me, not the harp?" It could be both. I have found that LO's usually take more air than SP20s. Since you are able to adjust and play 2 draw on Hohners, there could be a problem with the LO 2 draw reed. Don't throw it out. Follow Pistolcat's suggestion and see what a more experienced player can do with the harp.
2)"if i give up on the lee oskar out of frustration, would a hohner harp in the key of A have a similar amazing sound or is that unique to the oskar?" The Hohner Golden Melody is equal tuned like the LO and would sound similar.
3)"would i have similar problems with a different brand of an A key harp--that is, is there something special about the key of A that makes it especially difficult to play the 2 hole draw?" The gap would make the reed less responsive, not the key. You will find different key harps require slight embouchure adjustments. Make sure to drop & relax your jaw.
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sonny3
232 posts
Dec 29, 2014
1:54 PM
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Try whistling the note you are trying to get.Then keep same shape and breathe from chest to get the note on the harp.
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didjcripey
850 posts
Dec 29, 2014
2:25 PM
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I agree with Stan; I wouldn't be messing with gaps at your stage of the journey. If you haven't already made it unplayable, the problem will almost certainly be you. The lower holes in the lower harps require you to drop the jaw and open the mouth cavity, or else they don't play right.
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Lucky Lester
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nacoran
8182 posts
Dec 29, 2014
3:07 PM
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What Orphan said. If you like the sound of the Lee Oskar the Hohner harp closest is the Golden Melody. Totally different shape, but same temperament, which is likely what you are hearing.
That said, it may be you, especially since it's the 2 hole.
If it's making other weird noises, particularly buzzing, it could be a reed issue. If you are still having problems after watching Adam's video, do you have a way to record yourself? It's quicker to diagnose a problem by ear.
I'm partial to Lee Oskars myself. Nothing about a LO should make particularly harder to play than any other out of the box harp, so if you did do something to the reed then another Lee Oskar would probably fix the problem (or just a new reed plate- cheaper). But if I was a wagering man I'd lay 3:1 odds it's technique.
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Nate
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Jim Rumbaugh
1072 posts
Dec 29, 2014
5:58 PM
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My Lee Oskar Story
I started with cheap Johnson harps in 2001. a set of 12 keys for $30. Hard to play, but I learned. It was time to upgrade. The club's best player used only Lee Oskars. He would always say, "They're the best in the world."
When my 5 Lee Oskar's came I was very disappointed. It was not the leap I expected coming from a $5 harp to a then $25. I then tried the Special 20 and found what I was looking for. I will say this, if you can't play a Special 20, it's not the harp, it's you.
I edited this to add, my D harp went bad, I just pulled out an old Lee Oskar D I had stashed in a corner. It's not too bad, but still not my favorite.
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theharmonicaclub.com (of Huntington, WV)
Last Edited by Jim Rumbaugh on Dec 29, 2014 6:00 PM
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SuperBee
2302 posts
Dec 29, 2014
7:43 PM
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Who knows? maybe its the harp, maybe its you. i don't think an A harp is much different to a C harp in just playing a straight 2 draw. is it? i dont know, i dont recall ever having that 2 draw problem...i certainly do recall having harps which were terrible to play, until i learned about gaps. i remember the sense of freedom which came with the confidence that i could make the harp work. before then i would approach the purchase of a new harp with trepidation, never knowing if i'd get lucky and have a playable harp.
i dont think its too early to learn about gaps. i wish i'd learned right at the start.
pretty hard to say if there is something wrong with yours. if the gaps are about the same or maybe a thou or so wider than your C harps, they are probably ok. have you tried plinking the reed? does it ring like its neighbours or does it sound dead/wooden/dampened? does the reed pass through the slot? what is the sound you get when you play it? is there a burr in the slot or some foreign matter interfering with the reed action? have you damaged the reed while adjusting it?
anyway, i wouldn't toss the harp yet. wait until you have a good target.
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jbone
1840 posts
Dec 29, 2014
8:22 PM
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The nice thing about a Lee Oskar is, Lee was the very first maker to offer replacement reed plates. If you want to know for sure what's up buy a set of LO A reed plates and replace them. Then try the 2 hole and see if it's you or the harp.
I suspect that at some point you drew too hard on that note and warped or fatigued the reed to where it's done but I could be way off here.
I personally don't care for the tuning of the LO's. Big River decent enough harp, I have a couple. Sp20 same way. My preference tends toward Suzukis though.
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arron
2 posts
Dec 29, 2014
9:13 PM
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thanks for all of the thoughtful advice.I think I'm going to set it aside for a while and hopefully return to it with renewed vigor and the knowledge I gained from your responses.happy new year to all.
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A440
278 posts
Dec 29, 2014
10:37 PM
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Its hard to say what is happening, but I would guess that maybe its not the Lee Oskar, but the A key that is causing you difficulties. If you learn on a C harp, moving to lower or higher keys means learning to change the way you shape your mouth. The two hole draw can be difficult on lower key harps until you get a feeling for it. Best thing would be to find a local teacher for a couple lessons, who can diagnose what is happening and give you some tips.
I would not throw away a working harp, especially a LO since you can put new reed plates in it. Maybe buy a SP20 in A, to see if it is easier than your LO at this stage of your development. Then practice with all four harps in both keys, and you will learn the subtle differences between the models and the keys. The LO, SP20, and Big River are all good harps. Progress will come in steps, rather than linearly. Persevere.
Last Edited by A440 on Jan 03, 2015 5:53 AM
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zackattack
14 posts
Dec 29, 2014
11:38 PM
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Arron, you have a computer, don't you? Install an app that puts a tuner on your computer and then play the 2nd hole draw. Your tuner should display an E. Attempt your bend and you should see it display an Eb/D# and maybe even a D if you get it right. If you are not seeing the tuner display an E on the D-hole draw then you know you have a bad reed. I use a program called Harp Ninja on my mac and it is a great tool for practice.
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Thievin' Heathen
455 posts
Jan 02, 2015
2:25 PM
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I first started playing Lee Oskars in about 1984 (before the internet) and only in the last 3 or 4 years did I ever tweak or alter them in any way. I have never seen a bad one. It may be that you have a very rare, defective one, but since you said you tweaked the gap, we will probably never know.
Your description of the sound as so bad it does not sound like music sounds consistent with a stuck or cracked reed. You can diagnose this by plinking. If it does not ring when you plink it you've got slot issues or a cracked reed.
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Harpaholic
573 posts
Jan 02, 2015
3:10 PM
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I started out playing LO's and was happy with them. Liked the bigger holes, they played well.
Then a couple years later I started getting not so good harps. They where all very unresponsive, some notes worse than others. They where not fun to play anymore. I haven't bought anymore since. I still use the old odd keys I have on occassion.
Last Edited by Harpaholic on Jan 02, 2015 3:13 PM
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Johnny Charles
63 posts
Jan 02, 2015
9:35 PM
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I switched to LO's in the early 90's and played them for years. I liked the response and tone I got from them. I also liked the alternate tunings at the time. Here is a video I did for a Public Access TV Show in '07. I was still playing mostly LO's then. 1965 Fender Vibrolux Reverb..OTB Bullet Mic...(wish I knew Greg Heumann and John Kinder then). We covered Albert King's Cross Cut Saw. Hope you enjoy it.
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HarveyHarp
623 posts
Jan 02, 2015
10:04 PM
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Nice version of Crosscut Saw. Nice Tone, Nice Singing.
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HarveyHarp
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Barley Nectar
592 posts
Jan 03, 2015
7:33 AM
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Yes, very nice indeed. Thanks...BN
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