IndianaHarpKid
41 posts
Dec 28, 2014
7:06 PM
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Musician's Friend has a 5 pack of Special 20s for only $124.99. Thought everyone should know.
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Rontana
4 posts
Dec 28, 2014
8:01 PM
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You might keep a close eye on it. A couple of weeks ago they had the same set for $106 (as well as an MB set for $115).
Lots of pre- and post-holiday bouncin' going on.
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garry
549 posts
Dec 29, 2014
10:11 AM
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Note that one of the 5 is an E harp, which many here don't have much use for, as evidenced by many of the "what key harps do I need?" threads.
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2chops
312 posts
Dec 29, 2014
10:35 AM
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I never understood why they put an E harp in those things instead of something actually useful. Like a Bb or an F. A guitar player probably had a heavy say in what the 5 keys would be without any knowledge of 2nd position playing.
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I'm workin on it. I'm workin on it.
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SuperBee
2301 posts
Dec 29, 2014
2:14 PM
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those cheaper deals i saw were on Amazon.
my bargain pack of MBs arrived yesterday...the E harp was probably the best set up of the 5, but they were all ok. i rebuilt the D harp last night. gaps were huge and the tuning marks look like there's a trainee on the job. tips of reeds ground down and almost random scratches elsewhere. the harp played very tunefully though, all the splits sound great
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Mojokane
777 posts
Dec 29, 2014
7:25 PM
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here's something in E
starts out in D...
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Why is it that we all just can't get along?<
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isaacullah
2896 posts
Dec 30, 2014
11:05 AM
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FYI, I snagged that deal from Amazon when they were at $106 last week. They arrived yesterday. I'm fairly obsessed with Special 20's these days, having come around from Marine Bands, and traveling through the gamut of harmonica brands and models.
A few things of note:
1) These are, indeed, the new "Progressive" Special 20's, not NOS ones from before that change.
3) The case is pretty good, although it is a bit cheap, and made in China. The outer "clamshell" is quite rigid (although it is of a flexible canvas), but you can tell that lower quality materials were used for the padding and cutouts (probably cheap opencell foam for the one, and styrofoam for the other). It's all lined with a velvet-like material on the inside, however, and the harps do fit snugly. Not a bad "addon" for this purchase, but not really a main reason to buy this set. FYI, there is space for two additional harps in the case.
3) The harps are all gapped high for my taste, but the two lower harps (A and G) are gapped VERY widely. This is a non-issue if you know how to tweak your harps (which I do). The E and the C were the best two OOTB, but YMMV.
4) Yes, that E is in there, and it's a bit hard to know what to do with it. Two things, however: a) at $106, even if you never play the E, you are still getting a good deal for the four remaining harps. b) if you are handy, half an hour with a file and tuner, and you've got a high F. Still a "fringe" harp for me, but probably more useful than the E. Perhaps more useful still, break out the BluTak or the soldering iron, and you could take it down to an Eb. You could even experiment with an altenate tuning layout. Tuning this to "Easy third" would let you play across the whole harp in 12th position as if it were 2nd, which is the key of A major. Could come in pretty handy for country tunes and the like.
All in all, I'd say this is a very good deal.
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SuperBee
2304 posts
Dec 30, 2014
2:43 PM
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Hi Isaac, i'm interested in your experience of the progressive sp20. do you think they are different to the old sp20?
i really expected these would be NOS...
my comments about tuning marks on the marine band set could be expanded. the marks which are not on the reed tips are quite unfocussed...as in, they indicate a lack of control...and they are deep, unlike any ive seen before. one of them has created a large burr on top of a reed. there is also a burr on the reed plate where the tool has dug in. i'll check the others today and see if its common to the whole set..
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Harp2swing
173 posts
Dec 30, 2014
3:23 PM
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An E harp came in handy @ 3:10 on this Tune
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2chops
315 posts
Dec 30, 2014
3:53 PM
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I never said that nobody uses an E harp. Just that it isn't the most useful key that comes to mind for probably most players that play 2nd or 3rd position. Whatever the vocalist likes to sing in will dictate what key gets played. I get that. But I have an E in my gig bag that I have only ever played at home to get a feel for how it plays. So far it has never been needed. If I ever do it'll be there waiting.
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I'm workin on it. I'm workin on it.
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Barley Nectar
590 posts
Dec 30, 2014
5:05 PM
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I have been playing LO's for 20+ yrs. Ordered the Amazon SP 20's two days ago. I have a MBD in the case which I don't like. Custom comb. Inconsistent breath force needed from hole to hole. Jams up when you get on it.
Also have a XO, this harp is excellent, gritty, loud, in your face, love it.
I am looking forward to trying the SP 20 again. They were lousy when I started buying the LO's. We shall see...BN
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Goldbrick
810 posts
Dec 30, 2014
7:06 PM
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I use an e harp quite a bit. Lots of stones stuff and BB king stuff in B.
Also when tuning guitar down 1/2 step all those C songs are in B
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Harp Study
60 posts
Dec 30, 2014
7:45 PM
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I picked up the 5 pack for $106 from Amazon; I just couldn't resist for that priced (and I missed the $116 MB sale). I started playing on a couple SP20's about (3) yrs ago, but haven't bought any since that time. They were nice, but I wanted to try some other harps; so I did that, but haven't really played any SP20’s since.
I think I resisted buying more because those first (2) SP20 harps are the only harps I've blow out since that time, but in reality that is likely due to learning how to bend/play on the instrument. Still it left a bad taste and I was afraid they had a short lifespan; so I searched elsewhere. I fell in love with many harps, but the golden melody and marine band were probably my favorites. If they sold a golden melody in the compromised MB tuning (at the same price) I'd be sold on “my harp”.
After getting this (5) pack though I got to say I am amazed at how well these harps respond to a little work (and I mean very little). I'm no customizer, but I shape/gap the reeds and on marine bands flat sand the comb. Originally the “C” harp played very well, but the others played just “OK”. I just got done gapping/shaping the “D” harp and the improvement is amazing. I basically done some minor re-gapping/re-shaping and walla this is the single best playing “D” harp that I have (and I own more “D” harps then I deserve at my stage of playing). I might have found “my harp”, but in all honesty I’ve said that before. I might be the kind of person that never commits to a single type of harmonica, but only time will tell.
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PropMan
35 posts
Dec 30, 2014
9:55 PM
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I use my E harp once every gig- the boss does a slow blues in B minor that is his real show stopper on the Telecaster. I take one 12 bar solo and then he plays for about 8 minutes. It took me a few weeks to come up with something that doesn't sound like a stuck pig. It's been a great help to me both in terms of playing high pitched harps and playing a minor blues in 2nd position. I've grown to love my E harp. It's the only Special 20 in my gig set and it's played like a dream from day one right out of the box.
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isaacullah
2897 posts
Dec 31, 2014
10:24 AM
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@SuperBee: I haven't had enough time on these new "Progressive" Special 20's to fully assess them yet. I haven't even done any adjustments to them yet, as I typically like to play a new harp for a week or two to get to know what it needs before I tweak it. However, first impressions are that they are not significantly different than the old Special 20's. The tone is clear and certainly darker than a Marine Band. On the better-gapped ones, the bends come easy, and can be sustained well with out squeals or unwanted overtones. The lower-keyed ones seem "breathy" to me, but I am fairly certain that's due to the wide gaps, and not due to being leaky.
Out of curiosity, I've just opened up the G harp, and am comparing it to an older Special 20 from my main set. Here's how they line up:
1) Covers: Other than what's stamped on them, the covers appear identical to the older version. Same profile, same placement of the screw holes (slightly forward of center), and same coverplate screws (slotted head with the little square nuts). The last is a bit of disappointment, as I was hoping that they would have upgraded the coverplate screws to at least those that are used on the MB deluxe.
2) Reedplates: The reedplates differ in that the new ones have two extra holes at each end, apparently for mounting on a different comb. The two additional holes seem to match the spacing of my MB deluxe. Otherwise, the screw hole patterns and other cutouts are identical to the older model Spec 20.
3) Reedplate screws: This seems like a bit of a negative. The new screws are thinner and have smaller heads. This could be bad, as the smaller heads would tend to put more focused pressure on the reedplate, which could warp the plate a bit if they are tightened too far. It also means that you won't be able to mix and match reedplates from the old Spec 20 line with the new ones.
4) Reeds: As I said, most of the reeds were gapped too wide for my preferences OOTB. The low harps were gapped especially wide. For example, it looks like the 1 draw reed on my new G harp is gapped approximate 2.5 the thickness of the reed tip. Reed dimensions appear identical to the old Spec 20's, and tuning marks seem comparable to the way they were done before. Looks to me like they were tuned with a hand file, and not a rotary tool or a draw-scraper. Reed tips have cross-hatched file marks, and only one reed was filed at the base. This was done diagonally, and over a very narrow swath.
5) Comb: To my eyes, the comb appears absolutely identical to the old Spec 20 comb. The only perceptible difference may be the color, which seems slightly "bluer" on the new harps than the old, but that could simply be a matter of age.
In general, I think these will be very good harps once gapped to my playing style. The only reservation I have is the change to the reedplate screws, which I think could be a significant issue if overtightened. One should be very careful when reassembling these harps. The screws should be barely tightened, just so that they are not loose, and one should be very careful not to over-torque them. Probably, they should also be tightened slowly, one at a time, in a cross-pattern (like tightening the bolts on a care tire).
Hope that helps!
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isaacullah
2898 posts
Dec 31, 2014
10:33 AM
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I broke out the calipers:
Old reedplate screw dimensions:
Screw head diameter: 4mm
Screw diameter: 2mm
Screw length: 10mm
New reedplate screw dimensions:
Screw head diameter: 3.1mm
Screw diameter: 1.2mm
Screw length: 10mm
Also, now that I've fully dissassembled the harp, it appears that the comb has some extra holes at each end. Perhaps to accomidate other cover plates (e.g., MB deluxe/crossover)?
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Last Edited by isaacullah on Dec 31, 2014 10:35 AM
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isaacullah
2899 posts
Dec 31, 2014
10:59 AM
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While I had the G harp open on my desk, I decided to go ahead and reset all the gaps. Just 15 minutes of basic gapping and shaping of how the reeds lay, and it plays so much better. The tone is rich, but clear. The draw bends are all smooth and very present. Chords are nice and full, and the tuning seems very accurate. The 6 overblow was there, and easy to get and sustain with minimal squeal, although I could not bend it up. Probably some embossing would help that. Couldn't get the 5 or 4 overblow to sustain, so those holes would need some work (although I tend not to use those OB's much). Blow bends were easy, and sounded good. Couldn't get the 10 half-step, however, which means I need to do some more adjustment on those reeds.
Again, one needs to take a lot of care when screwing the reedplates back on the comb, but it's not too hard to do.
Overall, these are very nice harps, and play very well. I'm quite pleased with them. They seem to stay pretty much true to the vibe of the old Special 20, and I like that.
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chromaticblues
1641 posts
Dec 31, 2014
12:29 PM
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@isaacullah
I have some brand new SP20's from before they made the change. I would trade one of them for you "E" harp.
If your interested let me know.
Click my user name for info
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SuperBee
2305 posts
Dec 31, 2014
12:53 PM
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Thanks Isaac. I appreciate your review. What of tuning? Is it similar to pre-progressive sp 20? Or brighter?
Re tuning marks, I opened all 5 of my new MBs. Only the D harp was quite as markedly strange as I observed above. The others match pretty much as you've stated.
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orphan
382 posts
Dec 31, 2014
1:09 PM
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@ chromaticblues
I am interested in trading. Please check your email.
Thanks
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isaacullah
2900 posts
Dec 31, 2014
5:19 PM
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@chromaticblues: Thanks for the offer! I've sent you an e-mail...
@SuperBee: I don't have a direct key-to-key comparison to make (most of my main harps are Marine Bands, and I've adjusted the tuning on most of them anyway), but it doesn't sound particularly different from the typical Hohner compromise tuning for the lower-level handmades... I don't have BBQ-bob's tuning chart handy, but a quick check with a tuner app on my phone suggests it's tuned to A=442 with the 4 blow dead on the money, the 1 blow a little flat, and the 7 blow a little sharp. The rest is definitely tuned to a compromimise of some kind. For example, 2 draw comes up 15 cents flat, and 2 blow is 25 cents flat...
Happy New Year, everyone!!!
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SuperBee
2306 posts
Jan 01, 2015
2:48 PM
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thanks Isaac! much appreciated.
I've been working on the marine bands, same issues on the gapping. last time i bought marine bands they hardly needed any attention but this batch are all gapped very wide. a few badly aligned reeds too...but they'll come up ok i think.
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