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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
The TWIN-HARMONICA SYSTEM is Announced
The TWIN-HARMONICA SYSTEM is Announced
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robbert
349 posts
Nov 30, 2014
9:21 AM
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The innovation frontier is endless! Congrats, Brendan, on another harmonica mind-bender!
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Philosofy
622 posts
Nov 30, 2014
10:52 AM
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Brendan, I can't decide if you're the Leonardo DaVinci, Thomas Edison, or Steve Jobs of the harmonica. These instruments are way beyond my skill level, but I can appreciate the outside the box thinking that goes into them, and the engineering skills needed to actually make working prototypes.
Norton Buffalo could have used just one of these harps to record "Runaway". :)
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KingoBad
1565 posts
Nov 30, 2014
11:11 AM
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Wow... And Wow!
If only I had enough talent to play them...
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Danny
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Roverharp
45 posts
Nov 30, 2014
2:02 PM
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Not to take away from the accomplishment these harps represent; Brendan is deservedly proud; but what of the MB30?
It's been almost a year since they were announced and I don't believe any more have been available since the first run of fifty harps. Are they proving to be more of a challenge to efficiently produce in quantity?
Last Edited by Roverharp on Nov 30, 2014 2:03 PM
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GMaj7
559 posts
Nov 30, 2014
3:32 PM
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Brandon does an outstanding job in taking the instrument to new places.
To think there is so much good music to be made out there and he is certainly a pioneer.
Hoping some extra gig money or Christmas funds go his way and some members here end up with his harps under the tree
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Greg Jones
16:23 Custom Harmonicas
greg@1623customharmonicas.com
1623customharmonicas.com
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Brendan Power
445 posts
Nov 30, 2014
4:25 PM
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Thanks for the comments.
@ Roverharp: fair comment on the MB30. We haven't been twiddling our thumbs, have been exploring various ways to make the MB30 simpler and cheaper, but you're right: it's not easy! We'll keep working on it
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robbert
350 posts
Nov 30, 2014
5:10 PM
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This comment may range away from both the Twin-harmonica System and the MB30 discussion, but I wonder if there is room to innovate on a more portable fully chromatic bass harp, and especially, a chord harp.
I know Suzuki has the Chord 56, and Tombo has a more diatonic size bass harp, but it doesn't have all the notes. Then there was Hohner's Harmonetta, by all accounts, a very complex beast to keep in good running order.
I'm not sure who would buy these items, but there are times when I have longed to have both a bass instrument and chord producing harp for occasional performance, that were versatile, yet more portable and perhaps less expensive, than current models.
I haven't had the budget to try either the Chord 56 or a Tombo bass, but not sure they would do the trick anyway.
Portability aside, maybe I should just take up the accordion?
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AW
164 posts
Nov 30, 2014
6:49 PM
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@Brendan - very cool. Can't wait to hear people playing these.
@robbert - I have the same wishes as you. The best compromise I came up with is a customized Seydel chromatic for $200. I used the C scale in this order:
CEGBDFACEGBD - blow
DFACEGBDFACE - draw
The other reed plates are the A scale in the same order. You don't get a fully chromatic instrument, but you do get F,C,G,D,A major chords, Dm, Em, Am, Bm, F#m (as well as Bm7-5,C#7-5) It's just so-so for bass, but can handle almost any song in C,G,D,A or their relative minors.
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robbert
351 posts
Nov 30, 2014
7:12 PM
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Thanks, AW...appreciate your solution...seems like it covers a lot of ground.
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robbert
352 posts
Nov 30, 2014
7:16 PM
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Actually, as I think of it, the Twin-harmonica system, with a well thought out note layout, might cover a LOT of ground as a chord producing instrument, and a bass, or one could get one set for chords, and one set for bass...hmmm...
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blingty
55 posts
Dec 01, 2014
2:12 AM
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Brendan,
This is an ingenious system.
I wonder could you comment on if it's feasible to use 2 sets of slides to play in real time on the Double Chrom? I mean, use the index finger for the master slide and the middle finger for the 2 slides on the harmonicas themselves - to use all slides in playing, rather than switching to master and "regular" slides on the chrom bodies with index finger or whatever we use for the regular chrom.
I'm thinking of an application where the rear slides go up a tone and the master slide goes up a semitone, giving us both semitone and wholetone trills, kind of the inverse of the application showed which had two solo-tuned harps a whole tone apart. I know this would put the tuning to be significantly different to what you've shown as the plates now shift to the bottom or top chrom and the top plate becomes the bottom plate so it has to be retuned as blows become draws etc. But maybe you can play each chrom in the double chrom as normal with it's own slide?
Maybe that's a crazy idea on my part... I'm thinking of a diminished double chrom where we can access all notes via bends or with the slide and bend all notes, with both regular semitone-up notes with the slide as usual but form the master slide and also with the wholetone slide. I guess you get that on the Extrabender. Any plans for a G Chromabender double chrom?
Any plans to have a G Chromabender double chrom in diminished tuning? I can talk about these issue over email, but I just wanted to congratulate you on the invention of the double chrom.
Man, you've come up with a significant invention for chromatic here! You have solved the wholetone trill, all bending chrom, quarter tone harp.... all with one fell swoop. I am impressed!
I guess you could also solve Robbert's requirement for a bass chromatic with new combs.
blingty / Eugene
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blintgy like soundcloud, ug
Last Edited by blingty on Dec 01, 2014 3:07 AM
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hannes
36 posts
Dec 01, 2014
6:12 AM
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I would definitely be interested in a diatonic harmonica based version with a somewhat lower price tag ...
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Gnarly
1170 posts
Dec 01, 2014
8:39 AM
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First off, it's great to see that Brendan is once again breaking new ground for progressive harmonica players. I personally have benefited from his work.
@robbert the Chord56 does chords pretty well for an instrument the size of a 14 hole chromatic. I have one and have learned to play it, no bass notes tho.
A more interesting thing for me is to use multiple specialty tuned slide instruments, and the ‘Twin-Harmonica System’ makes that easier and more elegant. Bravo!
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Jason Rogers
1 post
Dec 01, 2014
9:42 AM
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Congratulations Brendan on more great inventions.
I am also interested in asking about Diminished layout applications of these new models.
Can 2 Chromabenders be set up in Dimi layout to form a Dimi XReed-Chrom? (I assume yes)?
Can the DoubleChrom be half valved?
And, I may be repeating blingty's question here: Can the DoubleChrom use all slide fingerings in real time, say, like a sax?
Thanks, it's exciting stuff!
Jason
(PS, love the quarter tone chrom too!)
Last Edited by Jason Rogers on Dec 01, 2014 9:43 AM
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WinslowYerxa
732 posts
Dec 01, 2014
11:10 AM
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The single-body Chromabender is essentially a diatonic, as the second set of reeds in the chromatic body is used as responder reeds for bending.
The Twin-Harmonica setup allows two Chromabenders to be linked. This would allow you to have two all-bending diatonics, such as a C and a C#, to achieve a traditional chromatic harmonica with full bending capabilities.
For a diminished tuning, you need three diminished 7th chords to make a chromatic scale:
D F Ab B
Eb Gb A C
E G Bb C#
On a Twin Chromabender you have four four-note chords per octave, so you could include al three diminished 7th chords and then duplicate one of the three chords - same as on a standard single chromatic in dimi tuning.
Where all this leaves you with whole tone trills I'll leave to someone else to figure out.
Good on ya, Brendan, by the way! I know that you've been chewing on these questions for many years, and you've finally found a workable solution!
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Winslow
Harmonica For Dummies, Second Edition with tons of new stuff
Deepen your playing at the Harmonica Collective
Last Edited by WinslowYerxa on Dec 01, 2014 11:12 AM
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Jason Rogers
2 posts
Dec 01, 2014
12:34 PM
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Thanks Winslow. I agree. I was thinking that the first Chromabender could be tuned to Diminished Layout:
D F Ab B
C Eb Gb A
and then the second one to a 1/2 step higher:
Eb F# A C
Db E G Bb
This is equal to the standard Dimi tuning, and offers no whole tone trills, but you would get the blow bends of the Chromabenders, I believe, in addition to the draw bends that a 1/2 valved Dimi has.
One question I have is how practical is it to change the layout on a Chromabender?
Or, in a similar vein, Brendan, have you made a slide mechanism that can interface with two Dimi "diatonics"? I know this is not X-reed, but would it add anything in terms of sound, airtightness, or simplicity/maintainability as compared to a 1/2 valved chrom?
Jason
Last Edited by Jason Rogers on Dec 01, 2014 1:01 PM
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bluemoose
1038 posts
Dec 01, 2014
1:17 PM
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interesting...can't help but think though that this might be the first volley in a razor-blade like race to higher and higher harmonica counts!
HEADLINE 2021: B.POWER CORP ANNOUNCES NEW QUINTAMONICA!!!
:)
MBH Webbrain - a GUI guide to Adam's Youtube vids
FerretCat Webbrain - Jason Ricci's vids (by hair colour!)
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WinslowYerxa
734 posts
Dec 01, 2014
1:28 PM
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Hi, Jason.
Actually, with the responder reeds in the Chromabender you could dial in any bends you want within reason, not necessarily the semitone bends that Brendan defaults to.
And I' curious about what that second slide might do to make whole tone trills available. Maybe the right configuration of chords distributed between the two harmonica bodies might make that possible.
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Winslow
Harmonica For Dummies, Second Edition with tons of new stuff
Deepen your playing at the Harmonica Collective
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Jason Rogers
3 posts
Dec 01, 2014
1:42 PM
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> Actually, with the responder reeds in the Chromabender you could dial in any bends you want within reason, not necessarily the semitone bends that Brendan defaults to.
Oh, that's cool. I wasn't aware of that.
> And I' curious about what that second slide might do to make whole tone trills available. Maybe the right configuration of chords distributed between the two harmonica bodies might make that possible.
Maybe I don't have this sorted out yet - but I think that the "DoubleChrom" (as opposed to the single slider "XReedChrom") has the two slides and could certainly hold a C Dimi chrom and a D Dimi chrom, giving the whole tone trills (and a zillion enharmonics).
I have been wondering if it would be a usable idea to tune the second Dimi at a higher interval, such as a Maj 3, P4, P5, etc, for more practical intervallic playing.
J
Last Edited by Jason Rogers on Dec 01, 2014 1:47 PM
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Brendan Power
446 posts
Dec 01, 2014
9:19 PM
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Some cool ideas and suggestions there. The potential of this new format is about as wide as your imagination. I've only made a few of the many ideas I've thought of, and the more folks start thinking about it the more options come out. To answer a few above:
@ robbert: Slider Bass and Chord harmonicas are on the radar already. but they are more tricky to make because there is not a readily-available mouthpiece with slider channel available. It can be designed and made in various ways, most likely CNC in metal (chromed brass or stainless steel). I'll get to it in time...
Diminished X-Reed Chromatic is pretty easy, I'd just need to retune, swap around a few reed on the existing ChromaBender and adapt the OverValve Plate. If there was enough demand I could get them made for me in the right tuning by Hering.
Diminished DoubleChrom is pretty easy too, and you could get it configured with the sliders the opposite way you ask for, blingty. Not sure why you want to change it that way though - what's the advantage?
As Jason suggests, a ChromaBender DoubleChrom wouldn't work at this stage, as you need the second reedplate in each harmonica unit for the x-reeds. the X-Reed Chromatic only has the one slider, not master and secondary like the DoubleChrom. You can see that on the photo on the video. The two on the right are the OctaChrom and X-Reed, with no slider channels between the upper part and the harmonica units:
To answer Jason's other points:
1. "Can the DoubleChrom use all slide fingerings in real time, say, like a sax?"
Yes, you can hold one slider in with one finger while you work the other slider with the other, or flick between them to get interesting effects
2. "Can the DoubleChrom be half-valved?"
Yes, but embossing and fairly tight blow reed gapping would be recommended in that case for a decent sound. Because you're further from the reeds and there are two sliders between, all the elements have to be optimally airtight for good performance.
Last Edited by Brendan Power on Dec 01, 2014 9:20 PM
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GMaj7
560 posts
Dec 01, 2014
9:55 PM
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Great suggestions and creativity here from the forum.. !
Hopefully some of the contributors to this thread will step up and buy one of your harps.. !!
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Greg Jones
16:23 Custom Harmonicas
greg@1623customharmonicas.com
1623customharmonicas.com
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blingty
56 posts
Dec 02, 2014
2:53 AM
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Hi Brendan,
Thanks for answering the posts.
My query on the reversal of the function of the sliders was that I could use a main slider on the double chrom and play half-valved dimi chrom exactly as I do today, while adding the extra notes from the rear slider as I learned the new "instrument" over time. I felt that using a rear slider might be a little more unintuitive for me as it may feel a little more out of the way. I just saw you switching to the between rear and front sliders with the same index finger in the demo.
If we can use both slides independently from two fingers and each slider (or set of sliders, if the "rear" sliders are joined/ganged) can be used equally quickly, then it might not be such a concern. Still, I think I'd prefer the whole-tone /semitone sliders reversed from the way you show them (I know, firstworldproblem!).
I suppose that's the main question for me, really... can the two sets sliders be used equally. I guess piano players and other instrumentalists do that pretty quickly so no reason why not :-) If you're doing any more demo vids, that would be really great if you could show some of that. Still, I know that making such videos is time consuming.
I want to add some stuff on tuning configurations... I'll leave that for another post.
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blintgy like soundcloud, ug
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blingty
57 posts
Dec 02, 2014
3:49 AM
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Long post ahead...
The enharmonics on the DoubleChrom make for some very interesting possibilities. The projections below are for diminished chromatic tuning; perhaps someone else will figure it out for solo-tuning or other chromatic tunings.
Unless I've made a mistake (please let me know!), it looks that no matter what way we have the slides, as long as one goes up a semitone and one a tone, you can play any note and therefore can play any scale or pattern as all blow and all draw. One of the problems in shifting between blow and draw is that we lose the legato of continuing with an all blow or all draw pattern. Harmonica tunings with lots of enharmonics (diminished, your slide diatonic) mitigate that to some degree, but there's usually some point where you have to change breath direction.
So any phrase on a Diminished DoubleChrom could be all blow or all draw. Let's test that assertion. We just have to prove that any note in a dimi hole or neighbouring hole is available as blow or draw
So if we have a cross section here of the "top harp" if we want to think of it as being logically on top (it may not be, depending on how we arrange the tuning and slides):
hole 4 5 6
blow slide in F Ab B
blow slide out E G Bb
draw slide out F# A C
draw slide in G Bb Db
And with a 2nd type of slider going up a tone this gives us the "bottom harp" :
hole 4 5 6
blow slide in G Bb Db
blow slide out F# A C
draw slide out Ab B D
draw slide in A C Eb
So let's look at each note in hole 5 to see where it also exists - that's enough to extrapolate everywhere for the diminished tuning:
G: hole 5 blow slide out (top harp)
G: hole 4 draw slide in (top harp) - bendable
G: hole 4 blow slide in (bottom harp selected with whole tone slider, is the same as F on top harp but shifted up a tone on bottom harp)
Ab: hole 5 blow slide in (top harp)
Ab: hole 4 draw slide out (bottom harp, F# -> Ab) - bendable
A: hole 5 draw slide out (top harp) - bendable
A: hole 5 blow slide in (bottom harp)
A: hole 4 draw slide in (G up a tone) - bendable
I'm also showing the draw slide in note, but that's the same logic as for the G:
Bb: hole 6 blow slide out (top harp)
Bb: hole 5 draw slide in (top harp) - bendable
Bb: hole 5 blow slide in (bottom harp)
To also think about this, think of where the whole tone or semitone triplets are currently awkward with the dimi. That gives a good indication of where we have to change breath direction and come up with some compromise, such as getting the note by bending (which I do for those awkward triplets). The awkward one for semitone up or down triplets or trills is the blow slide in to draw on the dimi... for me, that's Ab -> A. That's available on the "bottom harp" diagram above in hole 4 draw. All whole tone trills or triplets (or just quick moving between them) are available by playing a note on the top harp and using the whole tone slider to get the other.
I think that's a very significant move forward in the harmonica world.
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blintgy like soundcloud, ug
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Jason Rogers
4 posts
Dec 02, 2014
11:54 AM
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You know, it just clicked with me what you're talking about, blingty, about switching the slides.
If you consider that you have two chromatics, then (at least to start) you might want the "less experienced" middle finger to do the coarser adjustment of switching between the two chroms. That leaves the index finger to play each single chrom as we are accustomed to doing.
I get that there are physical limitations at work. I guess retuning the chroms would be needed to simulate this...
Maybe something like this?
Solo layout:
top harp:
F Ab C D both slides draw
Eb G Bb Eb both slides blow
Eb Gb Bb C front slide draw
Db F Ab Db front slide blow
bottom harp:
E G B C# back slide, draw
D F# A D back slide, blow
D F A B no slides, draw
C E G C no slides, blow
Looks like we can just swap some reed plates around?
Last Edited by Jason Rogers on Dec 02, 2014 5:34 PM
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the_happy_honker
196 posts
Dec 02, 2014
12:46 PM
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This stuff hurts my head. I thought I was doing well just memorizing the Richter, solo-tuned and natural minor layouts.
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Mahcks
19 posts
Dec 02, 2014
1:45 PM
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Thanks for pushing what the harmonica is. Even though I don't play chromaticaly, it's inspiring to see possibilities like this.
Have you considered making it so that you can play two or three or four reeds in the same hole at the same time? Every slide harmonica I've seen is set up so that the slide toggles notes. I'm curious what possibilities there are for chords if instead the slide allowed you to add notes. Press one button and it adds a third, a 2nd button might add a fifth, and the 3rd button could add a seventh. Mix that with some tongue blocking and it might sound incredible.
Just the thought of gapping that device is giving me a headache.
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isaacullah
2890 posts
Dec 02, 2014
2:45 PM
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This is pretty rad, Brendan! Looks like the twin harp mouthpiece has to attach to where the standard chromatic/octave mouthpieces attached (screws into the face of the comb). Does that mean it can't be used with diatonic harps? I can think of HUGE numbers of possibilities of using this with diatonics (customized chord harps come to mind, for example), and would love to see that as an option. Also, will the twin harp mounting system eventually be available for sale on it's own (i.e., without harmonicas already attached)? Would love to have a few of those to play around with various combos...
LOVE the harmonica innovation!!!!!
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YouTube! Soundcloud!
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robbert
354 posts
Dec 03, 2014
6:49 AM
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Thanks for your response, Brendan...now I'll have to re-read the entire thread to follow all the permutations and note layout ideas!
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Brendan Power
447 posts
Dec 04, 2014
10:00 AM
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@ Mahks: yes, I've made a test chord harmonica with this format using the lowest few holes of a chrom. It works well, but needs specialist reedplates.
@ isacullah: Twin-Diatonics with slider are on the list, but the tricky part is the mouthpiece/slider channel. It's a critical part, tolerances have to be exact for good air tightness There's nothing out there for diatonic size so I'd have to make them myself or get them made.
I'm currently designing a possible solution matching a home-made 3D printed outer casing with laser cut stainless steel parts. If I can get it working it will be great, as then I can easily scale it for whatever size harp, from diatonic to bass and even huge chord harmonicas! Doing my first test in the next couple of days, fingers crossed.
If it doesn't work, I'll have to get precision metal mouthpieces made by CNC, which won't be cheap. Will let you know how it goes.
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