DannyRanch
16 posts
Nov 15, 2014
10:07 PM
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Hi Folks
I've been playing normally though Marine Bands and Golden Melody Harps, but when I tried a Special 20 on the key of G I really liked it so bad that now that I needed a harp on D I got a Special 20.
Call me paranoid (but mainlly thanks to the internet myths) everytime I get a brand new harp I break em up slowly, playing lightly and gently before getting full tone as with my regular harps in order to avoid reed fatigue maybe (?) (Ain't sure about that yet anyway)
Well the thing is that once I got it for a couple of days I then moved up to warm up with the bends in order to play some country and blues.
The first exercise I do is the first position major scale on the first octave, to get used to the bends on the new harp, then mess a little bit with the cromatic scale.
However when I hitted the 2'' I kinda felt it out of tune, so I run it though the chromatic tuner I use for guitars
The thing is that the low full tone bend is coming as F# and I noticed is almost exactly at the same pitch of the 2 Blow (F# as well on a D harp)
Weird, the 2 Blow and 2 Draw are really well tuned out of the box
So I found that in order to get the correct pitch I have to low the pressure (think of the second bend on the 3 draw) and then I got the G note!
The semi tone bend now pretty much works exactly the same as the so called blue third on the 3 draw (half step) as it requires small but precise air pressure to get.
The issue is if I bend tougher (I'm still not bending to the ground lesson learnt) the 2´´ is out of tune
The 2 draw on this particular harp has 3 bends, If I OB the 2 hole I get the same note as the 3´´´ so I guess it is correctly tuned.
I tried gapping it lower and higher, it kinda helped but the extra bend is still there and If I'm not careful it gets on the way
I'm mostly curious any idea?
Last Edited by DannyRanch on Nov 15, 2014 10:10 PM
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Pistolcat
741 posts
Nov 16, 2014
12:27 AM
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There is only one bend on any hole. It's between the lower and the higher reed. The rest is intonation. What you are doing is called "bending past the floor". I'm guessing you are a few cents shy (sharp)of the F#? Maybe it's starting to get a bit unstable? Squealing or other noises?
Kudos on the two hole overblow.
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Pistolkatt - Pistolkatts youtube
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nacoran
8124 posts
Nov 16, 2014
5:06 AM
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Pistolcat, that's not correct about there being only one bend per hole. You can bend to any of the notes between the pitches of the two reeds. On some holes that's only one note, but that's not the case on every hole. You actually need some of those bends to play chromatically. Bending past the floor (or at least to the floor) is still the correct diagnosis though for an F# 2 hole bend on a D harp though. If it's doing that two easily, I'm not sure what the adjustment (besides adjusting your embouchure a bit when you play it) would be. Maybe one of the harp techs will chime in.
This is a chart I did once for a C harp. (Never got around to doing the others.)
edited.
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Nate
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First Post- May 8, 2009
Last Edited by nacoran on Nov 16, 2014 5:19 AM
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Jim Rumbaugh
1046 posts
Nov 16, 2014
5:23 AM
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@Danny, I'm trying to re=phrase your problem in fewer words. I thnk it is:
"my 2 draw bends too easily"
Is that correct?
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theharmonicaclub.com (of Huntington, WV)
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Pistolcat
742 posts
Nov 16, 2014
5:37 AM
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Ah, Nate. I'm aware of the things above.
What I meant was that there is only the bend. There may be more than one notes in the range if the bend but you won't just get the correct two pitches by bending the two hole draw. You can get any pitch and seminote that is between the higher and the lower reed, and yes, if you bend as hard as you can you'll be closer to the lower reed's pitch (in this case F#) than the Half step above it that we are taught we get by the full step bend.
In fact it's not a stepwise scale at all. It's an analogue scale while bending. You an get any of the 130-140? Cents between the unbent A and the fully bent F# (but the F# is usually a bit sharp). In non-western music there can be more notes in an interval than we are used to.
It's like expecting an OB to be a halftone above the pitch of the draw reed. It won't. You need to intone and bend it UP to pitch.
Edit: rereading my own post I see that I'm being very unclear. Let me instead rephrase it as a Sufism to ponder on: Between the two hole blow and draw there is about 150 cents, two western music notes and just one bend to hit the right cent(s) to produce the correct pitch for one of those notes.
Pfah, that made it even worse. I give up...
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Pistolkatt - Pistolkatts youtube
Last Edited by Pistolcat on Nov 16, 2014 6:54 AM
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The Iceman
2247 posts
Nov 16, 2014
8:15 AM
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To bend the notes to exact pitch is not so much a function of the harmonica as it is your technique and your ears to "hear" what the exact pitch is and "telling the harmonica what pitch to play".
Too many players don't understand this and rely on (for example) bending to the floor and assuming this gives the correct pitch.
Bending to the floor will actually give a note that is about 1/4 tone flat of the actual pitch.
One must get inside the bending technique and learn to bend down to what I've called "one foot above the floor" and understand/feel the distance between this actual pitch and "the floor" - which is the point where the bend won't go any further.
When taught to a beginner from the start, this process is easily understood and assimilated.
When dealing with someone who has played for a while, it is harder to revisit the bending technique and relearn the proper approach.
This understanding also leads to creating proper pitch notes through bending technique - all that are available in each hole.
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The Iceman
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DannyRanch
17 posts
Nov 17, 2014
5:37 AM
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Thanks for all the comments.
What catches my attention is that this is only happening to this particular harp
other tunings/models are not showing this bend that in fact comes up so easily as Jim Rumbaugh said.
I previously had a blues harp on D as well and it did not showed the bend, also I'm applying almost the same air pressure on all the other harps to get the 2''
due to some suggestions and feedback I have been working to play more lightly (still on it) but is that the harp just go to far if I'm not careful.
Is there any fixing that can be done? or do I need to adjust my playing for this particular harp?
Second options sounds as a good challenge to keep improving tone control however I would like to see if it can be fixed somehow
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dougharps
772 posts
Nov 17, 2014
8:08 AM
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If the reeds are at correct pitch when played softly then, yes, you will have to listen carefully to pitch and adjust your technique as you bend.
There is a big difference in pitch between the G and D Special 20, they respond differently, and you will need a different approach to playing and bending on those 2 keys.
What other key of D harps have you played? I know that when I experimented with Big Rivers years ago coming back to Special 20s seemed to bend really easily. Customized harps bend even more easily. The SP20 in D may leak less than the other D harps you have played, and may respond more easily when bending.
I find that key of D harps are the ones I am most likely to get carried away with, abuse, and blow out reeds at gigs. This has improved over time, but still is an issue at times.
Breath control... a never ending issue for me in live playing situations. Especially on D harps...
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Doug S.
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