sydeman
118 posts
Sep 23, 2014
2:11 PM
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The Iceman
2125 posts
Sep 23, 2014
2:16 PM
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yes. like a breath of fresh air.
great fun
shakatakatakatakatak
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The Iceman
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HarpNinja
3927 posts
Sep 23, 2014
2:20 PM
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WOW!
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Mike
My Website
My Harmonica Effects Blog
Rock Harmonica Lessons
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Ted Burke
223 posts
Sep 24, 2014
11:46 AM
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This is perfection and the freshest thing I've heard in a while. Shun Ng's approximation of JB's vocal style and texture is near uncanny, and his guitar work is flawlessly rhythmic, slick, funky. Magic Dick has always been the missing link between link between Little Walter and the tradition of R and B honking saxophone (clearly evident in his work with J.Geils Band) and here takes it a glorious step further. His trade offs with Ng are short, punchy riffs, teasing and sexy, and his back and fills suggest what nearly a whole band would be doing. His solo break is in the tradition of memorable signature expositions; tasty, rasty, cleanly placed, suggestively succinct. Wonderful .
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ted-burke.com
tburke4@san.rr.com
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Martin
690 posts
Sep 24, 2014
2:23 PM
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Confirms my suspicions that Magic D´s greater harmonica playing days are behind him.
But Ng is really great.
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Ted Burke
224 posts
Sep 24, 2014
2:37 PM
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Hmmm. Did we watch the same video? I think this shows Magic Dick has his chops in order and at the command of his still lively imagination. I stopped listening to MD after his Bluestime project, as his style was overly familiar. This shows me the man can still take it apart and put it back together.
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ted-burke.com
tburke4@san.rr.com
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harpdude61
2160 posts
Sep 24, 2014
2:58 PM
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I'm with Martin on this one. Ng is badass, but I feel like Magic is missing the groove of what Ng is doing. Sounds unrehearsed on MD's part. The solos don't impress.
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www.facebook.com/catfishfryeband
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The Iceman
2130 posts
Sep 24, 2014
3:18 PM
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MD is no spring chicken. Sounds good to me...just not as sharp and on top of the beat as he was when he was younger.
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The Iceman
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HarpNinja
3928 posts
Sep 24, 2014
6:15 PM
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Clearly some of the song is worked out. You can't hit some of those riffs together without some communication. That being said, there is a bunch that would appear improvised. It sounded to me like they recorded close to on the fly.
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Mike
My Website
My Harmonica Effects Blog
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arzajac
1482 posts
Sep 24, 2014
7:31 PM
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I had never heard of Shung Ng before. This is a self-produced effort. Now I know him and I find him exceptional!
I've been listening to a lot of Don Ross recently and the thing with fingerstyle guitar music is that although it sounds crazy, tasty, melodic, ryhmic, you name it... It can sound *too* clean after a while.
I reckon what they were going after was a little dirt. ..To clean the palate, so to speak.
And sometimes fingerstyle guitar can have an overwhelming quantity of notes. Again, it's refreshing to leave space and imply the groove. Some great contrast here.
I like it and want more, please.
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Custom overblow harps. Harmonica service and repair.
Last Edited by arzajac on Sep 25, 2014 3:49 AM
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kudzurunner
4984 posts
Sep 25, 2014
4:55 AM
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I love it! Dick is letting it all hang out. I'm sure that some of it is worked out in advance, but surely most of his fills are improvised, and that is shocking, because he's doing a whole lot of things it wouldn't remotely occur to me to do--things I've never heard any harp player do. That's what makes it so exciting.
If you back away from the video and the singing and just take it as a guitar/harmonica duo, you realize how innovative the whole thing is. It makes 99% of guitar/harmonica duo work sound old-fashioned, stylized, unimaginative. It's closer spiritually to the very best of the Little Walter/Lockwood/Rogers stuff, but it's very much the next wave beyond that.
Hearing it that way, I'm able to overlook any passing errors in timing or execution. This is great stuff.
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Rubes
895 posts
Sep 25, 2014
5:54 AM
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Sure it's different than his earlier hard driving youthful exuberance.......but FRESH it is indeed! Me too like...
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Old Man Rubes at Reverbnation
Dads in Space at Reverbnation
Benny and Rubes at Reverbnation
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Ted Burke
226 posts
Sep 25, 2014
7:09 AM
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I keep playing this over and over and I now I think we need more of Magic Dick doing more of this sort of thing, especially with the exceptional Mr.Ng. After decades of being identified as the tightest and tastiest of harmonica players, some one who was right with the band , right on the changes, laser sharp on the solos, hearing in this context, a looser , less worked out frame work, is potentially a rich direction to go. I enjoy the pauses, the slight hesitations on MD's part, I enjoy the notes that don't get a full blast of wind, as we expect. I like anticipating what comes after the pauses; MD does not disappoint. The anticipation is wonderful. His interaction with Ng's guitar and vocal is cracking good. More, please?
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ted-burke.com
tburke4@san.rr.com
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The Iceman
2131 posts
Sep 25, 2014
7:12 AM
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Somehow I feel that these two spent a bit of time working out this arrangement, including MD's solos.
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The Iceman
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kudzurunner
4985 posts
Sep 25, 2014
8:19 AM
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Here's an interesting article on the new duo:
http://howlmag.com/blues-brothers/
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kudzurunner
4986 posts
Sep 25, 2014
8:22 AM
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Here's a solo video by Shun Ng. One heck of a mf guitar player:
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The Iceman
2133 posts
Sep 25, 2014
8:35 AM
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y'all know how much I love funk...
I got a new hero!
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The Iceman
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SteveTech
7 posts
Sep 25, 2014
9:01 AM
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This is exactly what I love to see in a cover.
So many bands, so many musicians cover songs and try to make everything sound exactly like the original. What's the point of me listening to a recording that's close to the original? If I wanted to listen to the original, I'd listen to it.
This shuns that. Forget using an entire band. Throw together a top-notch harp player, some scary-good funk guitar, and breathe new life into a song.
This is the sort of thing that sends me to Youtube to listen each musician involved, expands my musical boundaries, and makes me rock out at my desk.
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HarpNinja
3929 posts
Sep 25, 2014
9:01 AM
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NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
I clicked on the link about the duo and saw the word, "blues", thrown out time and time again. This is not a good marketing angle, doesn't at all support the message from the video they released, and doesn't even describe what they are probably even best known for.
I am disappointed that the press release didn't market their unique selling point.
There are a ton of harp/guitar duos playing blues, and the average person associates that with traditional blues. These guys are special because it is high energy and funky - both instruments are used in a context you can't hear very often.
Locally there are half a dozen or so venues that support small acoustic groups and are decent places to pay. Overwhelmingly, the music is country blues and Americana. This would blow the doors off places, but they surely wouldn't attract anything other than the in-house audience with a poster proclaiming acoustic blues.
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Mike
My Website
My Harmonica Effects Blog
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harpdude61
2163 posts
Sep 25, 2014
9:57 AM
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You guys are joking right? I can name 25 guys on this forum that could play exactly what one of the all time greats is doing here.
Because it is new from MD you believe.
If that was me plugged in the visual, harp syncing over MD's playing, you guys would be saying.."that's pretty good harpdude but..."
I know who I would like to hear with this guy.
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www.facebook.com/catfishfryeband
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Ted Burke
227 posts
Sep 25, 2014
10:10 AM
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No kidding , harpdude61. I think it's more accurate to say that you can name 25 harp players who can play this song well. There are not, I don't believe, 25 harmonica players who can play this LIKE MAGIC DICK, which is the attraction here. MD is an original stylist, someone with deep roots in the tradition and someone, as well , with an ear for ways to extend that tradition and keep it relevant and, lest we forget, exciting. This is exciting stuff in my book--MD steps away from the utltra tight r and b band context we are used to having him and see him joining forces with Ng, an inspired who is , like MD, inspired by old school and succeeds in making it fresh, rivetting, relevant to our contemporary mood and rhythm. "Make it New!" is what Ezra Pound exclaimed, the "it" being the old school that is too good be a building full of antiques. Strip it down, let it breathe, tigthen it up, don't sweat missing a note or a beat. "Wrong is Right" is what Thelonious Monk said. The wrong way is the way you play the song you love; you make it yours. Magic D and Shun Ng now own this tune.
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ted-burke.com
tburke4@san.rr.com
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smwoerner
273 posts
Sep 25, 2014
10:15 AM
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'Dude,
You're right, there are folks that could do more with it, now that it's been done. Hell, they can probably do more with it now that they've laid it down for posterity.
Much of what you just said could also be said about Musselwhite and Ben Harper. I hope folks look at this and the Harper/Musselwhite stuff and do more. Until then I'll enjoy this.
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Purveyor of Optimized New and Refurbished Harmonicas.
scott@scottwoerner.com
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kudzurunner
4987 posts
Sep 25, 2014
10:26 AM
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I'm certainly not joking, harpdude, but perhaps everybody else is.
Given the way you feel, though, I think you should email Ng and tell him he's got the wrong harp player. I'm not joking about that. Do it! You're obviously hearing something that nobody else here is hearing, and you'd be a fool to let us hold you back.
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barbequebob
2716 posts
Sep 25, 2014
10:35 AM
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What he's playing is pretty close to what the horn arrangements are in the James Brown original and what the horn parts are playing are RHYTHM PARTS, not just the usual mindless riffing one tends to hear in the vast majority of open jams and when I gigged in a band with a 5 piece horn section, things like what Dick's doing here is what I absolutely HAD to learn, which requires something the vast majority of harp players tend to lack and that's MUSICAL DISCIPLINE, rather than the usual non stop riffing. The stuff being played here, much like the way the horns are in the James Brown original, are both rythmic AND percussive at the same time and there are tons of dime a dozen harp players who NEVER learn these things at all.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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yonderwall
79 posts
Sep 25, 2014
10:42 AM
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Harpdude, it's not the complexity (per se) of what MD is playing here that makes the song enjoyable, it's rather just seeing the harmonica used in a great song, with short, thoughtfully chosen phrases, in a fresh context (though I must say I really do like his tone here).
I'm kind of surprised at your take on this because in a way it makes me think back to your other post about not always having to play the most spectacular harp on the planet, but rather just delivering great music that people will connect with.
(If it's complexity you're looking for I could suggest that what MD is really doing here is only playing bent underdraws :)
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The Iceman
2134 posts
Sep 25, 2014
10:43 AM
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It's pretty easy to watch an innovative and unique tune developed by the two original artists and then claim you can do the harmonica part better.
Point is, you didn't think to do it this way first.
Those at the forefront of something new always take the first arrows from the gallery.
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The Iceman
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HarpNinja
3931 posts
Sep 25, 2014
10:57 AM
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I liked it because it was a good overall performance of a song that was enjoyable to listen to...and it featured my favorite instrument in a cool context. Anything about the song could be different/better but that is true of everything anyways.
Something I've noted on the board that last couple of years (or it feels like years) is that pro performances end up taking a lot of criticism.
On the flip side, webcam performance are heralded as pinnacle exemplars of harmonica mastery.
I am not trying to insert a judgement of that here, but it at least feels like that is the case.
Something I think everyone should reflect on is the fact that not every performance requires the kitchen sink.
***I edited the second paragraph to say "criticism" rather than, "harsh and negative comments".
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Mike
My Website
My Harmonica Effects Blog
Last Edited by HarpNinja on Sep 25, 2014 10:59 AM
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barbequebob
2717 posts
Sep 25, 2014
11:37 AM
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@HarpNinja --- "Something I think everyone should reflect on is the fact that not every performance requires the kitchen sink."
That sentence in your post says it all in a nutshell!!! It's FAR more important to do what TRULY expresses the mood and feel of the tune wheras there are far too many players doing stuff that seemingly doesn't seem to do anything other than expresssing their technique and once you start doing the latter, you may impress a room filled with harp nazis at a SPAH convention, but for anyone else, it becomes a harp snooze fest for the audience.
Whether you're a pro or not, if you put ANYTHING out there, you're ALWAYS gonna be subject to negative comments/criticisms, and most pros learn one thing that many non pros NEVER learn is to grow thick skin because you can't please everyone.
If Dick played something more complex, as flashy as it may be so that he's just showing off his technique, it would ROYALLY screw up the groove BIG TIME and so what he plays is 100% appropriate and if you ever get called upon to become more of a session pro, you have to put a muzzle on the ego and play what is appropriate and what the client calls for. Just like I posted before, what he's doing is basically like I remember working with horns and the horn charts as in the JB original, are RHYTHM parts and trying to make it flashy and over melodic steps all over everything and screws up the groove.
Listen to what the horns are doing in the original:
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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KingBiscuit
248 posts
Sep 25, 2014
11:47 AM
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I really liked the performance. Could Magic Dick do more flashy stuff? I'm quite sure of it. That being said,in my opinion, part of being a great player is knowing with to push it and when not to push it. MD did an outstanding job of playing what needed to be played and not going beyond that. If he had played a bunch of hot licks to satisfy his ego, the groove would have been lost. Instead, he chose to "protect" the groove. I applaud him for it!
Sometimes, in most cases actually, more is actually less.
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JInx
900 posts
Sep 25, 2014
12:13 PM
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Hot!
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Tuckster
1453 posts
Sep 25, 2014
12:34 PM
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I agree with BBQ bob amd HarpNinja. MD stayed right in the groove on that song. Fancy technique would have destroyed that groove. And listen to the way he BUILDS that solo. I doubt MD has lost a step. IMHO one of the all time great players.
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harpdude61
2164 posts
Sep 25, 2014
12:42 PM
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Thanks for the respect you show my opinion there kudz. Do you message everyone that performs and doesn't light your fire?
It is good. IMHO, it sounds like they met, went thru it a couple of times, and played at the open mic and the crowd loved it.
Just doesn't seem pollished enough for the masses the video was intended for. Would either accept it for a cut on a CD? Nope.
The visual and who it is makes it better than it sounds.
If it had been presented as audio only with no names attached, I doubt it would receive this much hoopla. ----------
www.facebook.com/catfishfryeband
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Honkin On Bobo
1271 posts
Sep 25, 2014
1:10 PM
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HA!!!!! One of the COOLEST music videos I've seen in a while.
Magic Freaking Dick!!!!!!! We're not worthy...We're not worthy!!!!!
Shun Ng ............. Whew!!!!!
That was outstanding!!!!!!!!!......just absurdly tasty!!!!!!
Last Edited by Honkin On Bobo on Sep 25, 2014 1:15 PM
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The Iceman
2137 posts
Sep 25, 2014
1:59 PM
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uh oh, Harpdude.
Totally not understanding your "Who said they could do it better ICE? State only the facts man." comment.
However, it feels vitriolic and I don't understand why.
Hoped that after the recent bout of weirdness here we had all moved past the direct attacks.
I like your offlist email persona better, but you did mention that on this list you like to be "controversial".
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The Iceman
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harpdude61
2166 posts
Sep 25, 2014
2:17 PM
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Who said they could do it better? I didn't include myself in the 25. I won't tell everyone what you said in a private conversation. I'm above you there my friend.Geez!
Controversial only if it teaches open-minded players something or makes them think. Leaves you out.
We should rename the forum "Ask Ice". Hey! That's a compliment.
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www.facebook.com/catfishfryeband
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The Iceman
2140 posts
Sep 25, 2014
2:29 PM
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uh oh, harpdude.
Now I really don't understand your comments.
If it will calm you down, I admit that you are above me, here, there and everywhere.
May we move on, please?
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The Iceman
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sonny3
214 posts
Sep 25, 2014
2:31 PM
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That wAs pretty perfect.
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harpdude61
2167 posts
Sep 25, 2014
2:38 PM
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Just answer the question.
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www.facebook.com/catfishfryeband
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WinslowYerxa
708 posts
Sep 25, 2014
2:46 PM
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How many harp players does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
An indeterminate number, with one actually installing the bulb and the rest saying they could have done it better.
This stuff ain't off the cuff; Dick's not that kind of guy. Everything he does is thought out from every angle. I remember him telling me about this duo earlier in the year; he was clearly enthusiastic about this new venture.
And Dick may not be a spring chicken, but from our hours-long phone conversations and later working with him at the Harmonica Collective, he shows no signs of decrepitude.
===========
Winslow
SPAH connects the world of harmonica
Deepen your playing at the Harmonica Collective
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kudzurunner
4988 posts
Sep 25, 2014
2:58 PM
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harpdude: When you burst into a thread with "You're all joking, right?", when it's clear that everybody isn't joking, most people read that as attitude. I'm sure I'm not the only person here who is mystified by your aggressive attitude here.
You're a good guy and a fine player, and you've gotten a lot of support recently in another thread for exploring your own effective, hustle-it-up approach as a player trying to make up for lost time. Your posts make it clear that you believe we're all guilty of a double standard: we like coming from Magic Dick what we would criticize coming from you.
When you accuse everybody in a thread of a double-standard--which is to say, when you disrespect them in that way--you can hardly be surprised when they bridle. To be blunt, if nobody has been raving about your videos in quite the way we're raving about Magic Dick's approach here, that's because you're not quite as good as Magic Dick. Few of us are. I'm certainly not. I'm certainly happy to praise somebody who does what I wish I'd done. I'm not jealous. I'm just happy when I hear some truly innovative playing. I don't love every note he plays. I don't like every aspect of his tone on every note. But none of that matters, compared with what I DO like. When you upload a video with that kind of originality and bravura edge, I'll be the first to celebrate it.
I genuinely like what Magic does in this video, for the reasons I've stated above. I'm happy that I'm not alone. I plan on watching the video a few times, in fact, with harp in hand, and stealing a few licks.
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smwoerner
274 posts
Sep 25, 2014
3:28 PM
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In Harpdude61's defense, he was replying directly to Iceman's comment which implied that Harpdude61 said he could have done better than MD. That is not what Harpdude61 said. If you'll go back and read his original post you'll see that he said
"I can name 25 guys on this forum that could play exactly what one of the all time greats is doing here."
What Iceman wrote does come across a bit like a personal attack given the original statement.
So, Harpdude and Iceman can you two possibly work this out in private.
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Purveyor of Optimized New and Refurbished Harmonicas.
scott@scottwoerner.com
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atty1chgo
1146 posts
Sep 25, 2014
3:45 PM
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Have we gotten to the point where if an all-time great harp player like Magic Dick, or anyone else for that matter, doesn't come up with riff or a line that is like the one that he is famous for, or at least something "worthy" or a superstar player every single time, that somehow his playing is slipping? MD is filling the space as tastefully as he can. Sometimes the simplest of songs are the hardest to accompany if they weren't really designed for harp. I can't wait to see who Magic Dick jams with on the Blues Cruise in a few weeks. Oh, and I'll be sure to video "Whammer Jammer" and post it here, so we can all pass judgment on his playing, especially those who think that he has lost a step. :)
It is also about joining with an artist in a fresh new mix of music. For example, I can't wait to hear how Charlie Musselwhite meshes with Cat Stevens / Yusuf on his new album (Charlie is a guest artist on it)
Last Edited by atty1chgo on Sep 25, 2014 3:49 PM
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The Iceman
2141 posts
Sep 25, 2014
3:48 PM
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Thanks smwoerner.
I didn't catch that. My bad and my apologies for improper wording.
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The Iceman
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Milsson
169 posts
Sep 26, 2014
3:19 AM
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This forum is like a tube amp, it has natural compression. The best players get taken down a notch and the worst players a praised up a notch. Whats left is a clutter without dynamics.
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kudzurunner
4990 posts
Sep 26, 2014
5:19 AM
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On second listening, I can hear more of what Dick's doing than I did the first time around, when I was struck more by the angularity and use of space (i.e., all the moments he chose not to play and the way in which that non playing contributed to the new-jack swing groove). I like his use of the 5-6-7-8 draw chord as a percussive equivalent to, and response to, the funky guitar. I like the way he establishes and then deconstructs the opening riff by only using part of it around :18-:22. I like the really weird high-note thing he does around 1:17. I like the gravely tongue-sputter thing he does at 1:24: not a hard technique, but thrown in at the perfect moment in the song here. I also like the way he moves into the IV chord with an ascending series of notes around 2:50-2:51; the timing is strange; he starts the run a little earlier--or later?--than expected. When he and the guitar connect on the IV chord, it sounds to my ears as though there's been an extra beat added.
Last Edited by kudzurunner on Sep 26, 2014 5:20 AM
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1847
2221 posts
Sep 26, 2014
7:44 AM
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"Sometimes the simplest of songs are the hardest to accompany if they weren't really designed for harp"
how could any song be better designed for harp than this one?
this is a simple 12 bar blues.
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nanothermite
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The Iceman
2145 posts
Sep 26, 2014
8:11 AM
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Not so much about the form , but of the arrangement.
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The Iceman
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HarpNinja
3932 posts
Sep 26, 2014
8:19 AM
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"how could any song be better designed for harp than this one?
this is a simple 12 bar blues."
I think saying that oversimplifies the tune, especially how it is played stylistically, but I think an easier song to play over would be a I chord blues drone at a lower BMP.
"Sometimes the simplest of songs are the hardest to accompany if they weren't really designed for harp"
In addition, harmonica is an instrument, and I don't get why, since it can play notes, it would handicap playing a song.
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Mike
My Website
My Harmonica Effects Blog
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dougharps
737 posts
Sep 26, 2014
8:30 AM
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It clearly was an arranged and rehearsed performance as shown by the use of changing the time (slow phrases) and doubling of lines. All performed right on time...
I sometimes play in an acoustic duo that plays a wide variety of genres, and I enjoyed this recording a lot. I am rethinking my approach to some songs.
I think that this is a great performance. Contrary to Kudzu's view, the only part I DIDN'T care for much was the technically skilled weird high and fast descending passage he mentions above. It just didn't seem to serve the song in my view, and seemed to be a show off line. MD's later use of his signature 9,10 blow bend lick didn't disrupt the groove and was OK with me.
All in all, a great performance of a classic song by a really talented and innovative acoustic duo. To me it is suitable for CD, and if they issue one, I will buy. That is a lot of music from a harp guitar duo...
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Doug S.
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1847
2223 posts
Sep 26, 2014
8:55 AM
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"In addition, harmonica is an instrument, and I don't get why, since it can play notes, it would handicap" playing a song.
i agree 100 percent
"I think saying that oversimplifies the tune, especially how it is played stylistically",
i disagree, the introduction
is a simple call and response
a blues device.
i would of, liked to of heard the harp,
play one of the guitar riffs back at him.
magic is known for his sharp attack
it could of been sharper in places.
i liked the solo, and the overall clean tone.
the guitar is playing the bass and percussion
along with his guitar part.he has all the basses covered.
not really,an over simplification,
it is still a, 3 chord blues progression any way you slice it. stylistic or otherwise.
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nanothermite
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