Leatherlips
274 posts
Aug 16, 2014
6:54 PM
|
In the band I'm in, they refuse to play a simple rhythmic blues number with just one chord as it is not challenging.
For me this is not the point. It is mesmerising and I know what it's like to be on the other side ( listening ) and just how much I get drawn into it and my surrounds disappear as I'm absorbed by the rhythm.
It's like they don't want to play it because it's too easy. WRONG.
It's not easy to get the feeling out there and capture a crowd and keep them in those moments. I think it's a great thing. What do you reckon?
|
Goldbrick
625 posts
Aug 16, 2014
7:05 PM
|
Just 3 words--- JOHN LEE HOOKER
Another great 3 Words- 1 chord--R L Burnside
Last Edited by Goldbrick on Aug 16, 2014 7:24 PM
|
Leatherlips
276 posts
Aug 16, 2014
7:09 PM
|
Goldbrick, I did get them to allow me to sing 2 of his numbers in the end.
It might be because the bracket needed filling, but that is exactly what I'm talking about.
|
blueswannabe
488 posts
Aug 16, 2014
7:10 PM
|
@leatherlips This could not be a more timely post for me. Just last night after we finished our gig, the bass player says to me, "The crowd really likes those one chord songs...they were tapping their feet and getting into it..." Finally a realization that one chord songs do in fact work. It may not be musically interesting or complex or challenging, but it works and it mixes things up. I could not agree more.
Last Edited by blueswannabe on Aug 16, 2014 7:10 PM
|
6SN7
471 posts
Aug 16, 2014
7:35 PM
|
our band has had that issue in the past. We now regularly rehearse holding on the "I" and soloing over it. It is a great device to build tension in a song. It is great fun to bring it down way low, and play quiet, and then build louder and louder. Or it is a good way to make an announcement or introduce the band. It has a valid use and it's nothing about simple or ego.
Actually, it is very difficult to play an entire song like that I find. I have always enjoyed Muddy Waters "Mannish Boy" as it builds and builds and swells to its final conclusion. It's not challenging to play one chord, but it's damn hard to make it a great song.
Last Edited by 6SN7 on Aug 16, 2014 7:37 PM
|
Rubes
881 posts
Aug 16, 2014
7:47 PM
|
Luv that shit! Also luv RL's sox!
----------
Old Man Rubes at Reverbnation
Dads in Space at Reverbnation
Benny and Rubes at Reverbnation
|
nacoran
7939 posts
Aug 16, 2014
9:28 PM
|
My bass player can play circles around me, and he's, well, he's receptive to playing anything, but you can see he's getting bored with the simple stuff. I suspect that may well be the issue more than ego. Blueswannabe's comment might also be the cure for it. Seeing a crowd getting into something is a good cure for being bored.
I remember reading something in about the psychology of how we enjoy music- we expect certain patterns and when we hear them we sort of pat our brains on the back for spotting it coming and we like it. That means, as you get better and can play more complex things you are probably also picking up skills that let you spot that pattern easier, so instead of just liking 1 chord songs you suddenly find yourself enjoying jazz. Meanwhile, your audience hasn't been studying music, so they still like the one chord stuff.
I guess it's about finding that happy place, that mix of songs or that level of playing that makes everyone in the band happy and the crowd happy too.
When I'm writing songs I'm all over the place as far as complexity; my catchiest tune though is probably one of my one chord ones. It's just one of those testosterone songs that people like clapping along with. Funny thing is, even although it's stupid simple it's also the one I screw up the most. It's harder to hide a sour note in a piece like that. Also, it's in 1st position, so I frequently find myself starting on the wrong hole out of force of habit. There is no place to hide when you start your harmonica part on the wrong note in a call and response piece! :)
----------
Nate
Facebook
Thread Organizer (A list of all sorts of useful threads)
First Post- May 8, 2009
|
BronzeWailer
1398 posts
Aug 17, 2014
4:29 AM
|
My guitar guy played jazz for about 20 years and was all into complexity. Now he's back on the blues train. Here's a 1-chord thing we did last week to end our busking "set".
BronzeWailer's YouTube
|
Littoral
1137 posts
Aug 17, 2014
4:53 AM
|
If we accept that our job is about the audience and make our decisions based on the quality of their experience then the 1 chord question is easy.
More simply, play what the women want. Always. I'm pretty sure a long steady rhythm works.
|
Honkin On Bobo
1237 posts
Aug 17, 2014
6:01 AM
|
Yeah, I've seen this tendency in a lot of bands. A lot of bands seem to have the attitude that they're playing strictly for themselves and each other.
|
jbone
1734 posts
Aug 17, 2014
6:42 AM
|
Bronze, you have a great partner there. And your chops are very pleasing. I'd jam with you guys any time and love it!
In our duo, we do a lot of variety in the blues and roots realm. Jolene has gotten some of the 1 chord thing going as well. One original we do is based off of a sort of free verse poem I wrote about wandering the country. She just found a groove that worked and we grab folks with that simple thing. I anticipate I may get to do some of that on guitar as she improves more and more on harp. We plan to swap instruments here and there during sets and a 1 chord is likely all my old fingers can handle!
Groove hooks attention from audiences. If they have a good time they spend money. That's the simple explanation. The more in-depth one is that people do respond to certain rhythms and sounds and patterns and they like the feeling they get from particular chords and beats.
If you do music for a money maker that's great, there is a formula and it involves "money songs". If you also play because it makes YOU feel good, and you like seeing other people feel good with what you put down, that's way much better.
A 1-chord groove lets the lead player step up and find ways to keep it tasty as Bronzewailer and his partner demonstrate above. So for a harp player it's a cool deal. But the coolest deal comes when your listeners respond to the whole body of sound that's happening, and you can see them liking it!
Great thread.
----------
http://www.reverbnation.com/jawboneandjolene
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000386839482
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wa7La7yYYeE
|
The Iceman
1939 posts
Aug 17, 2014
7:19 AM
|
Musicians who poo poo and won't play a one chord vamp for an extended length usually are not that accomplished. Truth is that they can't do it.
One chord vamp is actually more difficult than playing changes. The challenge is how to keep the interest going.
I learn a lot by listening to early funk bass players - like how Michael Henderson dealt with this issue when hired by Miles Davis to change the direction of Miles' music.
----------
The Iceman
|
nacoran
7944 posts
Aug 17, 2014
12:19 PM
|
There is, I think, a difference between a performer and a musician, especially when you are playing a wide variety of venues. A performer does what the crowd wants. A musician is just about the music.
But you've got to find the mix and find the right venue for what you are playing.
Bronzewailer, that's some catchy stuff!
----------
Nate
Facebook
Thread Organizer (A list of all sorts of useful threads)
First Post- May 8, 2009
|
Goldbrick
628 posts
Aug 17, 2014
12:45 PM
|
The important thing in the one chord vamp is the rhythm.
For many musicians that is their weak spot- so they want to change chords to create movement. They just cant dig that trance thing.
When I started playing guitar- the only 3 songs I really wanted to learn were Boogie Chirren, Dust my Broom and Catfish.
Years later- Boogie is still the tuffest to get RIGHT
One chord is a beautiful thing
|
The Iceman
1941 posts
Aug 17, 2014
1:41 PM
|
resident Miles Davis expert sez:
So What isn't a one chord vamp. It's really a modal exploration that establishes the Mode key, shifts up 1/2 step for a short period and then back down.
Better Miles Examples will be found in Jack Johnson and subsequent albums, especially when Michael Henderson is the bassist.
----------
The Iceman
|
jnorem
540 posts
Aug 17, 2014
2:42 PM
|
@Goldbrick: "So What" isn't a vamp, and it isn't one chord, it's two chords: D-7sus4 to Eb-7sus4. The structure is AABA.
It's one of the very first songs I learned to play on the chromatic harmonica; the A section is all slide-out, and the B section is all slide-in. Easy!
By the way, transcribed Miles Davis solos, including the one one this tune, make for excellent etudes to be practiced on the chromatic. For that matter, "All Blues" is a perfect song for chromatic harmonica.
----------
Call me J
Last Edited by jnorem on Aug 17, 2014 2:50 PM
|
BronzeWailer
1399 posts
Aug 17, 2014
2:51 PM
|
@jbone. Thanks. +1 on the groove thing. I think it may be one of the most if not THE most important element of what we try to do as blues harp players. In my early learning, there has been a lot of focus on getting the notes right.
@Nate. Ta. I was thinking I'd put up a better version but I might be waiting for ever. Good distinction between musician and performer. If I had to make the choice, I'd want to be a performer. Part of the reason I started singing lessons was that I decided I wanted to be a blues performer of some sort, rather than only a harp player.
We aim to entertain, especially when busking, as that's the only reason someone will slow down and give you a smile or a tip.
Back to the one-chord notion. I believe that being put in a box forces creativity on the artist, such as a strict poetry form like haiku.
Great thread, Leatherlips!
BronzeWailer's YouTube
|
nacoran
7947 posts
Aug 17, 2014
3:25 PM
|
Yeah, that's a good way to describe rules, a framework for creativity- I've heard that applied to poetry before.
When I used to run a songwriter's circle we used to pick a topic for the next song- either a theme or phrase you had to use. It wasn't so all the songs were similar. It was because without some frame around the thing people would just stare at the page and blank out.
This is not the worst
Haiku you will ever hear
Because I'll write more.
:)
----------
Nate
Facebook
Thread Organizer (A list of all sorts of useful threads)
First Post- May 8, 2009
|
AirMojo
359 posts
Aug 17, 2014
3:36 PM
|
If you have to count the chords, then you ain't got enough to do...
|
Harp2swing
148 posts
Aug 17, 2014
8:56 PM
|
Get the band to listen to John Hammond's superb version of Diddly Daddy off his "Nobody but You" CD. There's a ton of stuff going on during that one chord groove with great rhythm guitar work, Slide and Drums all adding juicy flesh to that prime cut. It's a good example of what can be done with one simple chord and an infectious rhythm.
|
atty1chgo
1071 posts
Aug 18, 2014
2:24 AM
|
Less is more.
|
Slimharp
379 posts
Aug 18, 2014
10:18 AM
|
You either get it or you dont. You cant explain it. It is sort of a primal thing.
I really wanted to start gigging again. Started rehearsing with a " Blues Band ". I learned their set list. I kept asking when were we going to do some trad. blues, some basic 1-4-5 stuff, some shuffles, at least 2 or three. Stupid me, should have known right off, especially in a band that was lead by a lead singer who didnt play an instrument. All the stuff we were doing had plenty stops, breaks, tempo changes. Pop rock blues. I finally took in some William Clark, L.W. for examples. " Oh, thats like taking a step backwards " they said. After 5 months of rehearsing I walked. should have known better. You either get it or you dont.
Last Edited by Slimharp on Aug 18, 2014 10:20 AM
|
JInx
847 posts
Aug 18, 2014
10:32 AM
|
I used to know this gal, she was big into piedmont blues. She wasn't bad, and could guitar and sing it believably. She loved all that Mississippi John Hurt stuff. Now me I like it in small amounts, gets me bored quick.
On the other hand, she admittedly could not figure out what the big deal is with John Lee Hooker. Bores her to tears. And me, love that boogie can't get enough.
----------
|
smwoerner
257 posts
Aug 18, 2014
10:36 AM
|
I think one chord songs are a test of self control. When they really work for me is when the band takes the time to let the tension build naturally and then explode on it own. I've seen way too many bands butcher one chord songs by rushing them or trying to add to much.
----------
Purveyor of Optimized New and Refurbished Harmonicas.
scott@scottwoerner.com
|
LittleBubba
307 posts
Aug 18, 2014
12:20 PM
|
I don't think it's ego; I think it's ignorance, and I don't mean that in a mean way. It's already been mentioned that rhythm is important, but many other elements of great blues are necessary in the 1-chord tunes. There's no place to hide: the groove, the pocket, the space, tone... you gotta pay back the crowd for really listening. The big things have to be right, and the little things have to be right.
Not everybody who plays blues is a blues player.
I've occasionally layed down single chord 64 bar intros for my guys, just to get them to settle into the groove, and get behind the beat. Once they are there, anything that follows is way better.
|
Slimharp
383 posts
Aug 19, 2014
7:40 AM
|
LittleBubba, I think you nailed it. " Not everybody who plays the blues is a blues player ". How true is that. I know many who play at the blues. James Harman said once " Do you use your instrument to play the blues or do you play the blues to use your instrument ? "
|
barbequebob
2683 posts
Aug 19, 2014
10:45 AM
|
Unfortunately there are tons of players who just simply aren't particularly groove oriented and that's something you absolutely HAVE to be whenever you're playing tunes that are basically 1 chord type of progressions, or even tunes like what James Brown often did in the late 60's thru the mid 70's, where you are largely doing a 1 chord thing and then maybe way down the line in the tune you go into a bridge.
The approach for these tunes really has to be more groove oriented than heavily melodic, or better yet, very RHYTHMICALLY oriented using space properly and knowing how to play more percussively, and unfortunately, there are going to be musicians who are totally clueless about these things.
Often times with those kind of musicians, what I've found over the years, is that many of them often have absolutely horrible time and for guitar players, they often are going to be absolutely HORRIBLE rhythm players and too often try to over complicate things and usually are gonna make a complete mess out of a groove like that in a hurry. It will also come to no surprise that many of them are gonna be guilty of playing often times way ahead of the beat and if they did some John Lee Hooker grooves in ANY tempo or even Mannish Boy/I'm A Man, you can count on them to royally f**ck up grooves like that in a NY minute.
The last two posts by smwoerner and LittleBubba are absolutely spot on. Part of the thing with 1 chord stuff is how to use space as well as dynamics and it has to be much more rhythmically driven rather than melodically driven.
Tho this may sound odd to some of you here, but hiphop/rap, which far more often tends to use more sampling rather than an actual live band backing the rappers, if you pay close attention (and if you don't care for it, you need to lose your prejudices about it and listen to it more like a musician than a music fan/hater), many of those are 1 chord things and the music is rhythmically driven and NOT melodically driven music. Listen closely to it and then think about it for a minute and you may find certain similarities with hiphop/rap and blues in that respect.
In country blues, whether it's Piedmont style, Delta, Texas, whatever, there's plenty of 1 chord grooves that have been used and sometimes referred to as being modal.
For harp players, the two best known 1 chord blues numbers in a band setting is Howling' Wolf's Smokestack Lightning and, of course, the Little Walter instrumental classic, Roller Coaster.
----------
Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
|
