harpdude61
2051 posts
Jun 27, 2014
1:15 PM
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Since Isaac and I have convinced some that there is a difference..AND.... since some of you have a valid point that lip pursing is lip blocking, we must distinguish properly.
The BIG 4 ...(I'm sure the comedians will come up with more)
** TONGUE BLOCKING **
** U BLOCKING **
** LIP BLOCK PURSE **
** LIP BLOCK TILT **
Glad we all put our heads together and got this settled. Now, how do we get the bodies that govern our harmonica world to certify this??
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www.facebook.com/catfishfryeband
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Frank
4695 posts
Jun 27, 2014
1:19 PM
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I'll certify it - but everyone must pledge to follow the new rules :)
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1847
1913 posts
Jun 27, 2014
1:21 PM
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i know a guy, who knows a guy.
just send me $100.00 dollars for a certificate
and one joe spiers marine band in D
i'll have it taken care of.
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
Last Edited by 1847 on Jun 27, 2014 1:22 PM
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harpdude61
2052 posts
Jun 27, 2014
1:30 PM
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Thank you Frank! Thank you 1847. You are correct pucker or purse IS lip blocking!
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www.facebook.com/catfishfryeband
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Frank
4697 posts
Jun 27, 2014
1:48 PM
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So now we need to call it what it rightfully is, because as we all know words are images without 3d form.
If the only way you had to teach a student was through the written word with no pictures - to tell them to pucker or purse would not be wise...that is a poorer choose of words then are available to help a new player.
Even if you write to play with a relaxed pucker - that still falls short in giving them the best advise to get them on the fast track of getting a nice single note.
If you write- place the harp on your relaxed lower lip etc...they'll have an image much better suited to play the harp in a comfortable posture aka - the "Lip Block"
Last Edited by Frank on Jun 27, 2014 1:49 PM
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Harpaholic
472 posts
Jun 27, 2014
2:03 PM
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"Pucker up and blow"
"Lip block and blow" doesn't have the
same ring to it.
What about the horizontal tilt, we should clarify, vertical or horizontal tilt. What about playing the harp upside down?, or maybe we should come up with another term for cupping a mic, that term may be offensive to someone.
I TB and pucker, what's the term for that? Pucker blocking? Tongue pucker?
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Frank
4699 posts
Jun 27, 2014
2:09 PM
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You sure your not lip blocking and calling it a pucker? That's the confusion we are trying to avoid...
We want to steer the student with accurate labels of exactly what it is we are doing when playing the harp :)
Last Edited by Frank on Jun 27, 2014 2:13 PM
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1847
1914 posts
Jun 27, 2014
2:16 PM
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frank how many student do you currently have?
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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Harpaholic
473 posts
Jun 27, 2014
2:16 PM
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I do both but its still a form of puckering. When I play a one-four hole draw chord and quickly switch to a single note draw in the same breath, I'm doing both.
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Frank
4700 posts
Jun 27, 2014
2:18 PM
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Just you :)
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Frank
4701 posts
Jun 27, 2014
2:20 PM
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Do you ever LB Harpaholic?
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Harpaholic
474 posts
Jun 27, 2014
2:21 PM
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Yes, only as I described that I'm aware of.
I guess that means I'm a pucker blocker since
I TB and pucker.
Last Edited by Harpaholic on Jun 27, 2014 2:34 PM
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Frank
4702 posts
Jun 27, 2014
2:26 PM
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Your honesty is truly refreshing - thank you :)
That's all we're looking for here is some honesty from players...
If you Lip Block, even partially - just admit it :)
Last Edited by Frank on Jun 27, 2014 2:27 PM
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Diggsblues
1396 posts
Jun 27, 2014
2:30 PM
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There are some subdivisions also. Split embouchure.
Just because you tongue block doesn't mean you can do this. It took me several months to perfect only blocking
one hole in the middle and switching to two.
Also, to tongue block left and right and do corner switching.
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isaacullah
2839 posts
Jun 27, 2014
3:51 PM
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I'm fine with your typology (it moves the debate forward), but personally I prefer a hierarchical approach:
Tongue-Based Embouchures
--Flat tongue block to left
--Flat tongue block to right
--Flat tongue block in the middle
--Curled tongue block both sides (in a "U")
Lip-Based Embouchures
--Bilabial tight-pursed block
--Bilabial loose-pursed block
--Unilabial tilted block
PS: I'm a scientist in a discipline OBSESSED with hierarchical typology. So, I suppose I'm predisposed to being overly logical when it comes to these types of things.
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YouTube! Soundcloud!
Last Edited by isaacullah on Jun 27, 2014 3:53 PM
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timeistight
1599 posts
Jun 27, 2014
4:36 PM
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I don't see left-, right- or middle-blocking as separate embouchures: that's just what accomplished tongue-blockers do, along with changing mouth spread from two holes up to six holes, depending on the requirements of the music.
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dougharps
665 posts
Jun 27, 2014
4:43 PM
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@isaacullah
It is a nice hierarchical typology of different types of embouchure.
I may be an addict... certainly to playing harmonica, possibly to posting. I had reached exhaustion on this topic, with frustration that I had not fully appreciated the distinct differences in lip blocking. I swore to myself that I would not jump back into this fray. I now understand that lip blocking uses a tilted harp and the lower lip to block holes. It seems like a valid starting place with pluses and minuses.
I have no idea if I sometimes do this when playing.
I have an observation with a question.
Playing harmonica is not a static, fixed, rigid event. It is a dynamic process with constant micro adjustments in the mouth, (jaw, throat, and diaphragm, too) to elicit different effects. One note, two, three, four, split intervals bends, overbends, ascending melody lines, descending, shakes, flutters, trills, etc. Our mouths and bodies use muscle memory as we make music. Our mouths are constantly moving, adjusting, and changing the points of contact with the moving instrument to make the sounds we want (hopefully).
Isn't any fixed description of an embouchure just a small slice of time, and not really a reflection of changes we make during the process of making music? One dimension of music is time, and the mouth and harmonica are not static.
Sort of noun vs. verb situation?
Is the embouchure an object to be categorized or a dynamic process?
Isn't embouchure with relation to the harmonica just a starting place for what we can do with the instrument in our mouth?
Attempt at humor:
PS When using the harp in the mouth like a cigar embouchure, is it tongue or lip based?
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Doug S.
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SuperBee
2094 posts
Jun 27, 2014
4:53 PM
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Indeed I suspect that I switch from tongue blocking to unblocking quite regularly. I'd always thought I was just playing a chord but I see now I have been unblocking all along
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Harpaholic
477 posts
Jun 27, 2014
5:00 PM
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I haven't seen anyone blocking holes with their bottom lip while playing notes. I Don't think its physically possible without distorting you face or placing the harp at at 70-80 degree angle.
Looks to me like their using the sides of the mouth opening/lips.
Last Edited by Harpaholic on Jun 27, 2014 5:02 PM
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Frank
4703 posts
Jun 27, 2014
5:01 PM
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Unless you went from a TB to a pucker on the 1 hole blow :)
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eebadeeb
64 posts
Jun 27, 2014
5:04 PM
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I still think splits are pursing or lip blocking
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Frank
4705 posts
Jun 27, 2014
5:57 PM
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Sometimes I'll block the holes to the right with my teeth and play the 1 chamber - my mouth is open wide and can really let loose on that chamber :)
Last Edited by Frank on Jun 27, 2014 5:59 PM
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