ridge
523 posts
Jun 25, 2014
10:09 AM
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So I was reading about piezoelectric crystals because I was curious about crystal element microphones and how they worked.
This got me thinking about how old crystal elements are sought after by harmonica players. Then I wondered why. Isn't anyone creating new crystal elements? If people are, is there like a Walter White of crystal elements out there doing amazing work?
I know that piezoelectric crystals are used for all sorts of electronics so they are definitely still being grown/created by companies.
This thread is also pretty cool: How Does a Quartz Watch Work? - Tuning!
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Ridge's YouTube
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barbequebob
2614 posts
Jun 25, 2014
10:14 AM
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Making new crystals tends to be, from a manufacturing standpoint, quite an extensive proposition, and even tho many harp players crave those elements, they do have a tendency to vary quite a lot, and when the Brush Crystal was still making them for Astatic, you could 5 different crystals bought brand new in the box, all 5 would often have an entirely different output, with some OK to some damned near too hot to use.
The other thing to remember, like it or not, harmonica is a niche market and unfortunately, not a market remotely large enough for manufacturers to make it worth their while to do it, and that's a cold, hard reality, like it or not.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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ridge
524 posts
Jun 25, 2014
10:34 AM
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Bob, thanks for chiming in!
I do realize that it's an extensive process to manufacture crystals and impractical to target harmonica players.
From the brief reading I've done, I kind of discovered your other point which is that manufactured crystals can vary greatly.
Having never previously realized what a crystal element is, I find this subject incredibly interesting now.
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Ridge's YouTube
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1847
1895 posts
Jun 25, 2014
10:44 AM
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i talked to some folks at astatic
they contend that it was no longer possible
to make a crystal.
i asked why that is, he said, he would need to have the engineer explain, and that he just left.
last time i talked to rod, he said, at one time
they had what was a giant ball of crystal,
and they would shave off the pieces, to make the mic.
man i would have loved to have seen that.
perhaps that is why the mic from kevin's harps
was called a crystal ball.
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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Greg Heumann
2756 posts
Jun 25, 2014
10:57 AM
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Making a crystal - you have to "grow" big crystals in a laboratory environment and then you have to slice them up precisely. Modern crystal elements use really tiny slices and more modern composition so they're unlikely to sound like the old ones. Tooling up to make the old ones involves not only the crystal formulation and processing, but making a housing - which involves making a mold and casting, making a diaphragm which involves a custom stamping die and a tool to run it, and then an assembly tool which rolls the lip of the housing over the diaphragm, not to mention the assembly of something to connect the diaphragm to the crystal, and the crystal to terminals on the back of the housing. An investment of several hundred thousand dollars will get you there.
The market for a $100 element that costs more, has poorer frequency response and less headroom than a $2.00 one from China? Good luck if you can sell 500 a year.
It ain't gonna happen.
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***************************************************
/Greg
BlowsMeAway Productions
See my Customer Mics album on Facebook
Bluestate on iTunes
Last Edited by Greg Heumann on Jun 25, 2014 10:57 AM
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ridge
525 posts
Jun 25, 2014
11:15 AM
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Greg, I was hoping for your input. I get that it would be costly to manufacture and infeasible to compete with modern Chinese manufactured crystal.
I can't help thinking that some gifted person would end up making "boutique" crystals or "artisan" crystals in a small scale.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not after crystal elements at all and I'm not looking to make them. I just am tickled by the idea. I think it's cool.
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Ridge's YouTube
Last Edited by ridge on Jun 25, 2014 11:16 AM
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jnorem
326 posts
Jun 25, 2014
7:21 PM
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This why I continue to wonder when someone is going to come up with a great-sounding microphone that doesn't employ that old technology.
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Call me J
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1847
1899 posts
Jun 25, 2014
8:20 PM
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holophone c+
great sounding mic ..... new tech
you will need a high end pre amp
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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jnorem
331 posts
Jun 25, 2014
8:59 PM
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You've tried this?
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Call me J
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1847
1900 posts
Jun 25, 2014
10:38 PM
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i got a chance to demo 3 of their mics
the c + was my favorite.
it was thru their set up, not my bassman
so your results may vary.
at $500.00 dollars a pop it is out of my league
it is hard to beat a crystal mic, and they can still be had for $150.00 or so. but if i was eric clapton
i would have several of those.
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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Milsson
135 posts
Jun 26, 2014
2:28 AM
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It,s realy simple to grow the crystals. You can buy the things needed in a food store or buy the finnished powder in a cemistry shop. Potasium nitrate or something like that. BUT IF you want to grow crystals with no impurities you havet to grow perfect small seed crystals and from that grow crystal rods in a machine that very slowly drag the crystal out from the solution.
I know at least one person experimenting with it.. On a hobby basis.
Last Edited by Milsson on Jun 26, 2014 2:29 AM
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Greg Heumann
2757 posts
Jun 26, 2014
8:10 AM
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Come see me at SPAH. I will have a mic or two there with a "secret weapon" element I've been experimenting with - modern element, sounds great. And no, I'm not saying what it is - at least not yet.
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***************************************************
/Greg
BlowsMeAway Productions
See my Customer Mics album on Facebook
Bluestate on iTunes
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Greg Heumann
2758 posts
Jun 26, 2014
8:12 AM
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Come see me at SPAH. I will have a mic or two there with a "secret weapon" element I've been experimenting with - modern element, sounds great. And no, I'm not saying what it is - at least not yet.
@ridge - there's no reason someone couldn't - but it will cost them a good deal of money and they won't be able to recover their investment though sales.
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***************************************************
/Greg
BlowsMeAway Productions
See my Customer Mics album on Facebook
Bluestate on iTunes
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tjtaylor
38 posts
Jun 26, 2014
8:38 AM
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I have watched video of that Italian guy demoing the bluexlab mic(i think that's the correct name) anyway they are supposed to be crystal mics and they are new. I don't know where they are made but they sound good on the videos!
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WinslowYerxa
635 posts
Jun 26, 2014
9:23 AM
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Would the Walter White crystal be blue?
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Winslow
Plunge into the SPAH Experience, August 5-9, 2014
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WinslowYerxa
636 posts
Jun 26, 2014
9:25 AM
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@Greg - What kind of sound does the "Secret weapon" deliver - appropriate for what kinds of playing I mean?
I'll certainly be visiting your booth in the vendor room at SPAH, along with Hohner, Seydel, Suzuki, and many others.
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Winslow
Plunge into the SPAH Experience, August 5-9, 2014
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1847
1901 posts
Jun 26, 2014
9:29 AM
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who the heck is walter white?
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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ridge
526 posts
Jun 26, 2014
9:53 AM
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@Winslow - Yes the Crystal would be blue for sure!
@1847 - Walter White is the fictional lead character from Breaking Bad. He is a chemistry teacher, who, through various circumstances, becomes the most prolific synthesizer of crystal meth.
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Ridge's YouTube
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Greg Heumann
2759 posts
Jun 26, 2014
8:32 PM
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@Winslow - it is a big fat HUGE tone. I don't have enough time with it on enough amps with enough styles to say what people will like it for - but for now I will be offering it as an option in my wood mics. Come by and try it and tell me what YOU think. I CAN tell you it is a current production vocal mic element that I have modified in several ways.
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***************************************************
/Greg
BlowsMeAway Productions
See my Customer Mics album on Facebook
Bluestate on iTunes
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HarveyHarp
592 posts
Jun 26, 2014
9:06 PM
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That Italian guy who demos the BlueXLab mic is Andy J. Forest, who lives in New Orleans, but is Italian and travels to Italy frequently. He came to the Crescent City Harmonica Club meeting last night, with his new Blows Me Away Microphone, from Greg Heumann, and we all had a great time playing with a variety of mics and amp. I had my Ultimate 545, and my Kalamazoo, and a Blue Line JT30 from the 70s, I think. The only thin I can say for sure is that the Kalamazoo smoked Andys amp. Greg, expect a call from Andy.
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HarveyHarp
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WinslowYerxa
637 posts
Jun 26, 2014
10:01 PM
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@Greg - so is this the Heisenberg of microphones?
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Winslow
Plunge into the SPAH Experience, August 5-9, 2014
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Jehosaphat
762 posts
Jun 26, 2014
10:21 PM
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@Greg
"Come see me at SPAH. I will have a mic or two there with a "secret weapon" element I've been experimenting with - modern element, sounds great. And no, I'm not saying what it is - at least not yet."
!0 bucks says it's a '57 ;-)?
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Greg Heumann
2760 posts
Jun 27, 2014
8:05 AM
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@Harvey - Andy said about that mic "A lot of mics and amps sound good in the confines of home or a music store - but to me the true test is how it sounds with the band - live. From the first few notes, I knew this was probably the best mic I'd ever played through. The main thing is the sound. Undeniably, it looks great and feels great. But of course that all takes back seat to "sound".
I've been playing professionally since 1977. I started out with a Green Bullet (the store owner told me it was "once owned by Charlie Musselwhite"). Then for a long time I preferred Astatic and have gone through quite a few. Well, the Cocobolo wood mic Greg made for me has that Shure Green Bullet full body tone and what I have always associated with the "Astatic" bite and crunch that I was used to for so long - but on steroids. Plus it's got that one more (5th) gear I can't quite describe. I am not a techie person - I just know what I like -
as in wines. And that's some damn good Cocobolo wine!!
I like it. A lot."
But it didn't have this new element I'm talking about.
@Winslow - as in Werner Karl Heisenberg or Walter White?
@Jehosaphat - I don't want to get into a game of 20 Questions - but you would owe me !0 bucks.....
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***************************************************
/Greg
BlowsMeAway Productions
See my Customer Mics album on Facebook
Bluestate on iTunes
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