Frank
4550 posts
Jun 18, 2014
5:10 PM
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I wonder if Mark was just shittin around and playin with Daves head - he does seem a like a happy go lucky devilish kinda gent who just might play a silly prank like that :)
Last Edited by Frank on Jun 18, 2014 5:12 PM
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STME58
902 posts
Jun 18, 2014
5:10 PM
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It is interesting how different what we are actually doing is from what we think about when we are doing it.
My favorite example of this is that in order to turn a bicycle you have to push the handlebars in the opposite direction from which you wish to turn. Most people will swear they are not doing this, but the physics demand it. I think it is part of what makes learning to ride a bike so challenging.
Research that has been done on harmonica note bending that shows you can bend the pitch of a harp with a constant airflow going into it by changing the volume of the resonating chamber the air flows through before it get to the harp. I expect that anything you do to change the volume of the oral cavity will cause the note to bend.
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tmf714
2580 posts
Jun 18, 2014
5:33 PM
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@Frank- I think Kim may be doing the same-I know he has been tongue block bending for many years-
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Frank
4554 posts
Jun 18, 2014
5:36 PM
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Dave... Do you tongue block Kim...
Kim... Ahhhhhhh, whats that? - I'm not sure if I do or not? Lets see if we can't figure this out together Dave, I think I'm doing something with my lips though?
Dave... I think your a TBer Kim?
Kim... really?- wow, thanks Dave... this shit is deep :)
Last Edited by Frank on Jun 18, 2014 6:03 PM
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JustFuya
277 posts
Jun 18, 2014
6:14 PM
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@STME - As a lifelong bicyclist and motorcyclist it took me a minute to figure out what you were saying. Sure enough. I don't think it would have gotten my kid off training wheels any sooner (or me for that matter) but it's a fun inertia fact.
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sonny3
188 posts
Jun 18, 2014
6:21 PM
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Yes! Those Lee Sankey vids are great.I think he has more on the subject too.Really learned how to use throat to bend tb from one those lessons.Started learning to tb just holes 4 and up.taking it in stages really helps.As a lip blocker i was scared to start tongue blocking.Didn't want to start over but now i love it.I have been getting into a lot of old time harp music and it's really a must in that style.
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Littoral
1106 posts
Jun 18, 2014
6:53 PM
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Iceman: "I've found great success at bending while TB'ing if I allow the back two thirds of my tongue to instigate the bends...".
That's really helpful. I knew it was happening but I hadn't noticed it enough to really focus on it.
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STME58
908 posts
Jun 18, 2014
8:42 PM
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@JustFuya, did you get out on a bike and prove that to yourself? I can remember doing that after a physics class where it was explained and being amazed.
" I don't think it would have gotten my kid off training wheels any sooner (or me for that matter) but it's a fun inertia fact."
I expect you are right about this, some things just have to be learned empirically and no amount of explaining it helps the process. IN this case I think you could even explain it incorrectly and it would have little effect on the speed of learning.
I think harmonica is similar. There are a lot of aspects you just need to discover by doing. That does not mean a good teacher to get you started in the right direction encourage you and pick you up when you fall is not a good idea. They can also spot and put you on the path to correct bad habits.
Another cycling analogy is that most cyclist are pushing down on the pedal in the backstroke and wasting energy fighting themselves and they don't even know it. I wonder how I fight myself in my harmonica playing and make it harder than it needs to be.
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paperharmonica
15 posts
Jun 18, 2014
9:16 PM
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I haven't lip pursed in years so this is not really a comparison but just observations about what resonates with me about TB. One thing is the economy of movement, with less sideways movement I find it easier to set up a rhythm in my playing, and to have an underlying sway or pulse. I also love the way the tongue can tap out a heart beat while maintaining a single tone. I like the way you can have a rough edge around a pure tone, almost the way a guitarist has distortion around the edge of a note.
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STME58
912 posts
Jun 18, 2014
9:50 PM
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I find the two embouchures quite complimentary. I would hate to have to choose just one. I like lip blocking as it leaves my tongue free for articulations like double and triple tonguing that carry over from brass playing. I also like the octaves and other intervals you can get with tongue blocking. I have found that I can do suspensions, and accent notes while maintaining a long note with lip blocking as long as the holes are adjacent.
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Rustys26
12 posts
Jun 18, 2014
10:49 PM
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Wow, I got much more help here than I expected! Thanks a ton everyone!
@tmf714 -it seems I really do have plenty of homework!
@BluesJacketman - I mainly listen to Sonny Terry and would give anything to sound like him (also Phil Wiggins)..but can't play much by him except some of his more simple intro riffs. What I like to play along with mostly is Slim Harpo, Sonny Boy II and certain things by Junior Wells. Also, anything folk I find to be super easy so I enjoy playing along with that stuff too.
Another question: it sounds like a lot of you guys TB, then switch to lip purse for the bends. how can you transition between the two fast enough when you have to bend?
Last Edited by Rustys26 on Jun 18, 2014 11:43 PM
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sonny3
189 posts
Jun 19, 2014
1:43 AM
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I'm almost certain Sonny terry didn't TB.
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S-harp
220 posts
Jun 19, 2014
3:35 AM
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I use both, ... they have different qualities..
Tonal variation is essential, and you can get good tonal variation from both techniques, from fat and big to thin and tinny. A big fat tone ALL the time is just plain boring.
Recently I started playing my left side while TB.
It took a while to get precision with bends and tone, but it really opened up my playing. To switch back and forth between a groove on the left and some higher end work on the right was a challange, but worth it.
Last Edited by S-harp on Jun 19, 2014 3:36 AM
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sonny3
190 posts
Jun 19, 2014
4:43 AM
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@Rustys It just takes practice to make that transition.I do both, sometimes i bend tb everything and other times only tb everything holes 4 and up. If you like Sonny Terry find the book called harp styles of Sonny Terry.Great book.
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atty1chgo
971 posts
Jun 19, 2014
6:00 AM
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Great post above by Moon Cat, don't you all agree?
I am still a raw amateur player with the occasional flashes of brilliance. A lack of practice time due to much increased concentration on my law practice and taking care of my 94 year old mother does not leave me a lot of time.
I started out as most players with lip pursing, and it still dominates my playing. But I can honestly say that from the very start, I have sought a particular tone and sound. I was able to get the desired sound easier with lip pursing. Maybe that is the lazy way out, but that is the way it has been for me.
The other thing is that I am probably tongue blocking more than I think that I am. I think that my tongue is moving so quickly that I don't even notice it.
I have found that when I consciously try to tongue block, I make more mistakes on notes. We all learn where the individual notes are on a harp one way or another from memory, and I guess that is the key, at least for me. When I know and learn where the notes are on each individual key harp (maybe that is the wrong way, but that is the way that I have gone about it) the choice of whether to TB or LP has been a matter of the tone that I want to produce.
I think that a better way to contrast this discussion is for someone to do a short video playing the same riff both ways, so that less experienced players can really hear the difference.
Last Edited by atty1chgo on Jun 19, 2014 6:05 AM
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Michael Rubin
901 posts
Jun 19, 2014
7:13 AM
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OK, so here's an update. First, I am still hoping for Winslow's explanation as to how to TB bend. I do think it is possible that my methods of pushing the tongue slightly harder against the harp and closing the jaw might be psychological. I often tell my students this joke:
A sculptor sculpts a horse. The townspeople are amazed and say, "Can you teach us how to build a horse?" "Sure, just get a block of wood and chip away everything that doesn't look like a horse."
So it is possible my tools are extraneous.
Yet, it is also possible they are helping in a way Winslow and others do not understand.
Even if only psychological, the system works. The question is, which takes more energy, understanding a new system and retraining the muscles to do it or the extra energy of unnecessary motion?
What is important is passing on good information to students. So I will make efforts to truly understand what is the necessary elements of TB bending for that purpose.
I certainly now see that the back of my tongue is lifting as I bend, as I was aware it does during puckered bends. What I wonder if the pressure I feel of the tongue against the harp is just what everyone feels as the back of their tongue lifts. As I said, this is a very minute amount of pressure.
Then I saw how someone in this thread said Lee Sankey explained how to throat bend. I was very excited because I have never been able to bend by constricting my throat and not moving my tongue. So I found this video:
To my surprise, Sankey describes using lifting the back of the tongue in conjunction with the throat lifting. The point is not to move the lips.
This is a very important question to me:
Is that what people mean by bending with the throat?
If so, I have been doing this puckered for years and it is basically what I do TB'd except I add the little tongue push and closing the jaw a bit.
If not, can someone please try to explain to me how to bend by only using the throat and not using the tongue at all?
Next question: In the comments on Sankey's video, he states it is a bad habit to touch the harp with your teeth while tongue blocking but doesn't explain why. As I put in my video, I definitely touch the harp with both sets of teeth while tongue blocking. It doesn't hurt, I can zip around the harp just fine so it doesn't affect my speed. Any opinions on why I shouldn't touch the harp with my teeth?
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yonderwall
72 posts
Jun 19, 2014
8:20 AM
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Hi Michael. You ask "Any opinions on why I shouldn't touch the harp with my teeth?"… one big reason I can think of is that it requires you to close your jaw enough to do so! (unless you have very long teeth :) I think you want to drop the jaw and keep the interior of your mouth as open as possible.
I find that to actually get my teeth to touch the harp I would need to close my jaw significantly (which I notice does change my tone as I test this).
Teeth on the harp might also make little scrapey and clicky nosies if you're not careful :)
Your videos are great, BTW!
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isaacullah
2816 posts
Jun 19, 2014
8:21 AM
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This is turning into a great thread! Posts by Jason, Michael, Winslow, Dan Gage, Dan Kaplan, and other great players! I liked how Dan Kaplan's post above (his username is paperharmonica) really brought it back to the OP. What attracted you to learn TB in the first place? It might have been that your harmonica hero(s) played that way, it might have been the tones you can achieve (the liking to "distortion" is cool), or a technique like tongue slapping. For me, I wasn't attracted to it until I heard Dan's music, and learned he did it all Tongue Blocking. That classic Blues style of playing was cool, but it wasn't the reason I started playing the harp, and it wasn't something I want to master. I wanted to sound more modern, and so I emulated the more modern players like Adam and Jason, who were all mainly Lip Blockers. But when I heard Dan's music, and what he was able to achieve with the Tongue Block, THAT'S when I knew I had to add that technique to my repertoire. I don't use it all the time, but I definitely use it, and I like what it allows me to do. So that's the "why" behind it for me.
But what about the "when"? Not "when" I decided to learn it, but "when" I decide to use the TB embouchure instead of the LB. Well, I think that revolves around two things: When is it appropriate to use the tones that that technique allows, and when do I need a subsidiary technique that that embouchure facilitates? I think in terms of musical styles here. For example, a typical Blues tongue slap may not be the appropriate tone for a more modern indie rock piece, or a reggae piece. But a more modern "Lip Slap" may not sound exactly "right" in an old country blues piece. Here's a video I made this morning exemplifying that idea (I'll start a new thread for this video, and another one I made on the "grip" too, so I don't hijack this thread).
Here's the vid on the "grip" I learned from Dan.
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YouTube! Soundcloud!
Last Edited by isaacullah on Jun 19, 2014 9:18 AM
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timeistight
1580 posts
Jun 19, 2014
8:38 AM
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"I'm almost certain Sonny terry didn't TB."
Joe Filisko thinks he did and Joe has spent as much time studying Sonny Terry as anyone.
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tmf714
2581 posts
Jun 19, 2014
8:49 AM
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Gary Onofrio aka Sonny Jr says Sonny Terry only used tongue blocking for splits,intervals and that's about it-he was predominately a lip purser-Gary actually spent a lot of time with Sonny Terry-
@STME-the handlebar analogy would be correct -except in the case of Flat Track racing where you are actually pointing the front wheel opposite the direction you are turning-therefore pulling the handlebar towards you.
Last Edited by tmf714 on Jun 19, 2014 8:50 AM
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Frank
4560 posts
Jun 19, 2014
9:01 AM
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bad ass harmonica
Q: “What is the difference in approach to harmonica playing between you & someone like Jason Ricci? Can one play blow bends, overblows and overdraws by using tongue-blocking? Is there a difference in sound?“
Dennis Gruenling
A: I have been getting this question quite a bit during the past few years. As far the difference in approach, let’s talk a little about embouchure first, or more specifically tongue-blocking vs. pursed-lips/lip-blocking.
ANY harp player who can play well should have both techniques in their arsenal. There are many techniques one can only play if you are tongue-blocking, such as tongue trills, tongue vamps, pulls & other chordal effects, sharply attacked staccato rhythmic playing, etc…as well changing the tone of your playing. Tongue-blocking by nature of the embouchure (if & when done correctly – as any technique should be) gives the player a bigger resonant air chamber to play with, and this directly effects the tone being heard. This is not to say that people that don’t tongue-block don’t have good tone. I know some players that don’t tongue-block and have good tone. I have also heard many of those same players try to play some tongue-blocking and the tone has been even better…and by “better” I mean fuller, rounder, richer and deeper. I have never heard anyone get worse tone by tongue-blocking, always “fuller & rounder”, regardless of the player (I have taught hundreds of students worldwide, and I know dozens of pro players as well).
Without getting too far into the Tongue-Blocking Vs. Lip-Blocking debate, I will just say that I am primarily a TB player (almost 100% of the time) and I know Jason Ricci to be primarily a Lip-Purser who also throws in some TB’ing for certain effects and techniques.
I use TB’ing for blow bends and overblows as well, which I started using back in the 90?s and used on my first album with my band Jump Time…I wasn’t that good at it back then, but could do it. I don’t use many overdraws personally, but when I set up my harps to do so, I can usually get them tongue-blocked as well. In addition, I also get draw bends on my Low tuned harps tongue-blocked. Not many people ask about them, but the real high AND the real low bends are difficult with any embouchure, just for different reasons physically.
The debate about the difference in sound will probably go on & on, but I can say (as well as any other tongue-blocker that I know) that YES there is a difference in sound, especially in the lower range of the harp, when you are tongue-blocking. Again, this is not to say that you can’t “sound good” when you don’t TB, but there is indeed a difference (unless of course, you purposely try to sound the same and narrow your TB air chamber to do so).
Many players tend to use mostly lipping for single notes and TB for some effects, which I did for a short period myself. However, the transition going from lip-purse to tongue-blocking for certain effects or techniques in the middle of a musical passage or lick made the playing NOT flow as well as I wanted it to. I have found this to be an issue with most players I have come across as well. When you TB all or most of the time, all of those TB techniques or effects (such as octaves, tongue-trills, staccato rhythmic chording, etc…) are literally right there at your fingertips, so to speak, so they flow much easier in your playing.
___________________________________________________________________________________________
Last Edited by Frank on Jun 19, 2014 9:01 AM
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JustFuya
283 posts
Jun 19, 2014
9:16 AM
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isaacullah
2818 posts
Jun 19, 2014
9:23 AM
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From the Dennis Gruenling quote above: "Tongue-blocking by nature of the embouchure (if & when done correctly – as any technique should be) gives the player a bigger resonant air chamber to play with"
I honestly don't believe this is true. TB just typically makes you open your mouth more than you might when LB. There is physically no way that it's possible for one to have a larger air chamber than the other. Unless you somehow magically grow a gullet using one technique vs. the other. The difference one hears has to do with minimization of the effort it takes to open up the oral cavity and throat. I'd agree that the TB embouchure makes it easier to hold it open while playing (or at least, it "forces" it to be a bit wider), but in no way does LB limit your ability to open up just as big. It just takes a bit more effort, and vision of what's going on in your throat. When you hear an increase in the "roundness and fullness of tone" when an LB player switches to TB, it's simply because they weren't holding their mouth and throat open as much before, because LB doesn't "force" it to be that open.
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YouTube! Soundcloud!
Last Edited by isaacullah on Jun 19, 2014 10:03 AM
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tmf714
2582 posts
Jun 19, 2014
9:41 AM
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When you open your mouth more-dropping the jaw-the chamber becomes larger-naturally.
People who claim they have the harp deep in the mouth lip pursing are actually lip blocking-the narrow chamber required to play lip pursed is exactly how it was shown in the early Hohner instruction sheet that used to come inside the harp box.
I have yet to hear a full time lip purse player with the full,rich tone of a tongue block player.
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yonderwall
73 posts
Jun 19, 2014
10:02 AM
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tmf714 - while I too am a huge proponent of TB over LP, I agree with isaacullah that (when done properly, of course), a rich single note played a TB player will be indistinguishable from the same rich single note played by an LP player.
It's more the infinitude of extra "stuff" around the single tones (i.e., the flexibility of the attack, splits, less temptation/opportunity to inadvertently close down the oral cavity over time while playing, immediate access to accurate and fast large interval jumps, etc.) that give the TB player what most perceive to be the "bigger" sound.
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BluesJacketman
150 posts
Jun 19, 2014
10:04 AM
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@isaacullah
I think we need to take into account that the tongue being on the harps comb might have something to do with the resonation, like how you put a pillow inside a bass drum to "Dampen" the sound a bit.
Last Edited by BluesJacketman on Jun 19, 2014 10:05 AM
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isaacullah
2819 posts
Jun 19, 2014
10:11 AM
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tmf714: I suppose I agree about Lip "Pursing" vs TB (but note that I was, indeed, talking about Lip Blocking, not Pursing). Sure, 'pursing' ones lips limits how wide open the jaw can be, but doing a Lip Block doesn't limit that at all (as yonderwall pointed out), because the top lip is minimally involved (it just needs to rest on top of the harp to complete the seal). In my view, however, strict "pursing" is something that a good "lip" player rarely does after the first couple of years. IMO, "pursing" is one of those bad habits that's easy to pick up as a beginner (but, perhaps, hard to shake later on, for some folks). However, I'd say that there's a fairly natural progression to go from the "purse" to the "lip block" over time, especially as you start to concentrate on your tone and bending. It came naturally to me, at least, and to others, like harpdude61, and I'm fairly certain that most famous "lip pursers" are actually "lip blockers". So, just to clarify, my above comments were about Lip Blocking only, not Lip Pursing, which I agree can limit how wide you can open your jaw.
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YouTube! Soundcloud!
Last Edited by isaacullah on Jun 19, 2014 10:16 AM
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isaacullah
2820 posts
Jun 19, 2014
10:12 AM
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@BluesJacketman: I'm not sure about that. The soft inner part of my lower lip is against the harp for my LB embouchure. How is that less damping than my tongue?
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YouTube! Soundcloud!
Last Edited by isaacullah on Jun 19, 2014 10:12 AM
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groyster1
2624 posts
Jun 19, 2014
10:21 AM
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sonny terry was definitely lip purser...proves you don't have to TB to be a great player
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Michael Rubin
902 posts
Jun 19, 2014
10:57 AM
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I like to think puckering, lip pursing, spit position and lip blocking are synonyms and the placement of the harp on the lips is a matter of personal choice. I call it puckering, but I use the words lip blocking to explain to my students what they should be aiming for.
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Frank
4561 posts
Jun 19, 2014
11:31 AM
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There are a considerable amount of intricate variables when it comes to using all the delicate techniques to their fullest possibilities when using either LBing or TBing ...
If a player sorta just fiddles around with LBing or TBing and never really digs in and tries diligently to master one or the other ( which takes many,many years) if not forever -
Then there will always be a wall of ignorance in that players belief system regarding how they are used and any truth they think they have will be most likely flawed, since they haven't spent the necessary time or quality effort to understand the facts in regards to actually using them properly, accurately or coherently :)
You don't become good or even great at these embouchure by talking about them "which is fun to do" but just talking is a poor substitute compared to puttin in the seconds, minutes, hours, months and years of hard work and dedication needed for learning to use them from one end of the harp to the other with authority and confidence!
Just TBing holes 4 and above is not going to give that player the complete insight into what TBing is all about...If all a player does is some octaves and a few other things now and then TBing - that player has merely a partial picture of the TB embrochures proficiency with executing music. :)
There are worlds inside of worlds concerning the usage of TBing :)
Most of us have only scratched the surface with all that is available TBing - using it in a very superficial way!
Last Edited by Frank on Jun 19, 2014 1:51 PM
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BluesJacketman
151 posts
Jun 19, 2014
11:39 AM
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@ isaacullah
I think since the tongue is inside your mouth or the resonating chamber than your inner lip the sound is affected differently.
Last Edited by BluesJacketman on Jun 19, 2014 12:09 PM
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JustFuya
287 posts
Jun 19, 2014
12:38 PM
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@Frank - I agree. There is no shortage of ignorance and talk is cheap. Since finding this site my knowledge has expanded faster than my improvement. Ignorance was bliss but now I have a lot on my plate. I have found OBs and I am slowly working them in. Now I'm trying TBing only because I love Sonny II's sound and that's what I aspire to emulate.
TB is harder for me to embrace due to bloody lip syndrome but I'm giving it a go. Combs have improved so I have no excuse other than habit to cross that barrier.
I usually have harps at hand as I peruse while listening to posted videos. I love the conversation and music here. If I toss my 2 cents in on occasion it should be taken at face value.
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STME58
917 posts
Jun 19, 2014
12:52 PM
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Don't want to get into the physics of motorsport here but this seems appropriate in light of JustFuya and TMF714's comments;
My main point in bringing this up is that many times what we think we are doing, and what we are actually doing, are quite different.
Last Edited by STME58 on Jun 19, 2014 12:54 PM
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SuperBee
2078 posts
Jun 19, 2014
3:41 PM
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Bloody lip syndrome? If that means what I think it means, you should be much less likely to have the problem from tongue blocking. If you're cutting lips on the harp, you're using too much pressure.
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JustFuya
290 posts
Jun 19, 2014
4:53 PM
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@SuperBee - Maybe so. I am referring to the old Blues and Marine Band harps with combs that grew into my work area. I was discouraged from taking them apart by the nailed construction. I tried everything from boiling water to cold rinse to clear them. Then I would use a razor blade to cut off the protrusions. Then they would shrink. I had no clue and ran a seat of the pants operation. Finally, I just replaced the harps as my wallet allowed. As the price increased my interest decreased.
When Hohner introduced the Golden Melody my interest was renewed and I was all over them. And now I'm a Crossover fan.
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atty1chgo
972 posts
Jun 19, 2014
5:06 PM
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UPDATE - so not taking my own word for it, I put on some blues tunes with harp to play along, and really took notice.
Sure enough, I tongue block about 40% of the time, and I don't do it consciously. Am I supposed to be directing the tongue block purposely MOST of the time while thinking about what I am doing? It seems to be a very difficult task. I guess that is what separates the good from the great players in one area.
Last Edited by atty1chgo on Jun 19, 2014 5:09 PM
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Frank
4569 posts
Jun 19, 2014
5:36 PM
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"Am I supposed to be directing the tongue block purposely MOST of the time while thinking about what I am doing"?
If your learning a new tune, phrase, lick or experimenting with your own unique ideals...sure, through purposeful repetition you'll want to think about what it is your setting out to accomplish.
This in turn burns it into the hard drive of your mind... then you just concentrate on playing > auto pilot takes over you get the results you were lookin for.
If your improvising ( which is what a lot of blues is mostly about ) - just do your thing and let the chips fall where they may ...Your purpose should be to say something purposeful period :)
Last Edited by Frank on Jun 19, 2014 5:53 PM
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BluesJacketman
153 posts
Jun 19, 2014
5:41 PM
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yes I remember when I made this transitions practicing scales and certain licks tongue blocked, then certain parts of songs, then whole songs and then after like a year I notice when I pick up a harp and put it to my lips my tongue automatically goes on the comb.
Another why reason to tongue block is cause the ladies like it, hahah. ;D
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The Iceman
1748 posts
Jun 20, 2014
5:23 AM
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I discovered that the words we use to describe techniques are very powerful in the results they create.
This is why way back in the early 90's I began to substitute "inhale and exhale" for "blow and draw".
Likewise, I've eliminated "pucker and pursed lips" in my teaching.
These terms suggest stopping the harmonica from reaching the lips. Rather, they suggest reaching towards the harmonica with the lips.
I prefer relaxing the lips and moving the harmonica into them (tipping the back end of the harmonica up).
This eliminates unnecessary muscle tension and makes the approach more technically organic.
Works for me and my students.
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The Iceman
Last Edited by The Iceman on Jun 20, 2014 5:24 AM
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paperharmonica
16 posts
Jun 20, 2014
5:46 AM
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I apologize for not being able to explain what happens inside my mouth, but it made me realize that in these posts I have read a lot about "thinking" - about a technique, and how it can confuse people - I know it does that to me. I use TB for everything and for me I have TB'd for so long that I can't separate the rest of my harmonica vocabulary without becoming inarticulate. The flow of air, the lip placement, the feel of the comb on my tongue, all the nuances that become a language are inseparable from TB to me, I think that is the key. There is an intimacy to what I understand, and I am sure the same is true for all players no matter the technique. I will try and post a few videos of what I love about TB in a week or so - much better than words. But I agree with Isaac, this is a great post, a great resource.
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mlefree
161 posts
Jun 21, 2014
1:29 PM
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I lay no claim to being an expert; they have already spoken. But I do have a few comments about tongue blocking since I spent the better part of a decade getting to where TB'ing became my default embouchure, bends included (well, most of them anyway -- high blow bends remain elusive on the higher keys; like Michael Rubin, that's when I U-block).
I assume that we are, in this discussion, beyond questioning the value or purpose of tongue blocking. If you hope to take fullest advantage of the Richter layout, it is necessary to TB. Period. That doesn't mean that you must by necessity TB all the time. It's also clear that lip pursing and u-blocking have their certain advantages. IMO, an accomplished player should be able to move fluidly from one embouchure to the next as the music and her/his ability calls for.
I am +1 on the Jerry Portnoy Masterclass. It was the key that opened the door for me where the several others I'd tried had failed. It is good to know that his Masterclass lessons are now available on Youtube. Here is the one on TB'ing:
I agree that Jerry makes it easy to do slaps, lifts and octaves. With the bending part, "YOYO" (You're On Your Own), baby. There just ain't no free lunch with TB bending.
I too am in the light touch camp. In my experience, using "brute force" or creating tension in any technique playing a musical instrument is detrimental. I think Iceman said it well except for one thing. I do not think it is easy to extend what you know about LP bending to TB. It certainly wasn't for me anyway. There are several commonalities to exploit in crossing the TB bending Rubicon, though. One is that it is a good starting place to use the back of he tongue and throat as much as you can to execute your bends as that allows deeper bends with richer tone. With both embouchures the concept is one of tuning the size of the resonant cavity in your airways to that of the target bent note is the key. With both embouchures this means changing the extent of the tongue's arch and the location of the "k" or "g" spot against the roof of your mouth or back of the throat. It's just that, for me, doing it with my tongue locked yet moving fluidly about on the harmonica instead of being anchored to the back of my lower front teeth made that a vastly more difficult proposition. But I am living proof that tenacity wins out.
Anyway, this has been an excellent thread and I am grateful to the Op and all the contributors. For me, it is this very sort of technical discussion on how to play these durned thangs is what makes Dirty South special. In view of that, I am grateful to Adam for creating it!
Happy TB'ing!
Michelle
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email: mlefree@silverwingleather.com
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MelodyMark
2 posts
Jun 21, 2014
10:20 PM
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The tone when tongue blocking is so much better, due to having the harp pushed further into your mouth. Also, octaves, splits, flutters, vamping.
Everyone should strive to learn at least the basics of tongue blocking, it adds so much texture to your playing.
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Frank
4609 posts
Jun 22, 2014
10:39 AM
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