Chris L
45 posts
Jun 13, 2014
5:08 PM
|
A tuning question for those who have had some experience with tuning and playing with other instruments:
I have learned from experience to check the approximate existing tuning before retuning a harp and usually find it to be set between A=440H and A=443. Today I started testing an A harp (Suzuki)to find most roots and 5ths, blow and draw, (and some 3rds!)are at A=444. Some are even above 444 by 5-6 cents.
So the question is, for the purpose of jamming will A=444 be within an acceptable range? Or will it be brutally sharp?
|
Gnarly
1025 posts
Jun 13, 2014
5:24 PM
|
Most Suzuki harps are ET--so the thirds aren't flat.
444 is too sharp for me, but the truth is, it's a lot easier to draw the pitch down on a note than to raise it.
I like 442.
CAPTCHA umaaay
Last Edited by Gnarly on Jun 13, 2014 5:24 PM
|
HarveyHarp
590 posts
Jun 13, 2014
6:40 PM
|
I used to tune my harps to 444, and I like it. I think it stands out in a band situation. But, I play with a lot of horn players, and I love horn lines, but they complain that I am too sharp. So, I started doing 443 a couple of years ago, and it works well. Of course, the big unknown is how hard you are breathing while you are tuning. I tune very very softly, probably softer that a stock harp can sound.
----------
HarveyHarp
|
arzajac
1399 posts
Jun 13, 2014
6:49 PM
|
Which notes are sharp?
Since notes flatten with increasing breath force and the lower you go on the harp, the longer the reeds and the more this phenomenon is felt. When played at the same breath force lower notes will play a flatter pitch than higher notes.
For example, it's normal for the 1 draw to be 5 cents cents shaper than the 4 draw. On an A harp, it could go up to 8 cents... Otherwise, when you play the 1-4 octave split, you would be brutally out of tune as the 1 draw would make a pitch way flat.
This is one reason why tuning a harp by numbers on a sheet doesn't yield very good results. You have to use your mouth and your ears. Use the middle octave as a reference and tune the other notes relative to that octave. Forget the absolute values on a tuner, tune them so they match the middle octave at normal breath force.
Back to your harp, if you found that it's some of the higher notes that are sharp, then never mind. In that case, your harp is simply out of tune. Most harps (from all manufacturers) are not in perfect tune from the factory.
----------
Custom overblow harps. Harmonica service and repair.
Last Edited by arzajac on Jun 13, 2014 6:50 PM
|
STME58
886 posts
Jun 13, 2014
7:00 PM
|
An interesting side note to this is that the number of beats you hear when two notes are sounded at the same time is the difference in the frequency.If I play A 440 and you play A 444, the listener will hear a beat frequency of 4 Hz.
|
Chris L
46 posts
Jun 13, 2014
9:51 PM
|
Arzajac, I will be using the French tuner I purchased from you to get the beats out. Because this harp is all over the place I plan to switch it to a Hohner style compromise.
6 Blow holes (2,3,4,6,7 &10)and 3 draw (1,4&7)are already at A444, and 2 other blow reeds are sharper still, so I was considering using that A444 as a reference to avoid lowering so many reeds.
I am just concerned this will make the harp too sharp for playing with others or even backing tracks.
|
arzajac
1400 posts
Jun 14, 2014
4:47 AM
|
Chris - James Gordon used to routinely tune his custom harps to 445. With the heavy embossing and the higher pitch, those harps were very bright!
That being said, I find that touching up the tuning instead of just making it right from the ground up can be tricky. The goal is to save time and effort, so it makes sense to only address the 2 or 3 out-of-tune reeds. ...Should take less than five minutes...
But often enough, retuning those reeds leads to other reeds needing a touch up and the next thing you know, you've just tuned your harp to something pretty weird.
I would say that most of the time, the shortest path to success is to start from the beginning. Put the tonic notes where you want them and make everything else follow....
----------
Custom overblow harps. Harmonica service and repair.
|
Littoral
1103 posts
Jun 14, 2014
5:41 AM
|
This:
"But often enough, retuning those reeds leads to other reeds needing a touch up and the next thing you know, you've just tuned your harp to something pretty weird."
Which is why it took me a while to get here:
"I would say that most of the time, the shortest path to success is to start from the beginning. Put the tonic notes where you want them and make everything else follow...."
Last Edited by Littoral on Jun 14, 2014 5:41 AM
|
MP
3230 posts
Jun 14, 2014
11:10 AM
|
Yeah, :-) You can wind up w/ a tuning that's "pretty weird"
----------
Affordable Reed Replacement
Marks Harmonica Tune-up
Click user name MP for contact info
|
Chris L
47 posts
Jun 14, 2014
12:56 PM
|
Thanks Gentlemen for this excellent information!
If James Gordon, who backed J J Cale, can tune to A445, Sounds like A444 will be fine.
I will aim to avoid "pretty weird!" :)
|
