Frank
4460 posts
Jun 06, 2014
4:37 AM
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When it comes to harmonica...The likes of Little Walters "musical imagination" is unparalleled to this day...The phrasings he created throughout his career are pure genius.
Here is a chance to show what you have up your sleeve :)
You will recognize this jam track as similar to the backing Little Walter used for "Roller Coaster"
What can you come up with? Do you have the "imagination" to put your ideals and spin to it ?
Someone want to try it in 5th pos...
Please download the Bt and share your results with us :)
Last Edited by Frank on Jun 06, 2014 5:11 AM
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dougharps
635 posts
Jun 06, 2014
9:25 AM
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Frank, couldn't you have posted a one chord track that didn't already have such an iconic harp track ingrained in our minds?
You not only are asking for imaginative playing, you are asking us to overcome hearing/playing at least some of the original recording!
I already know that when I listen to Little Walter and then play out soon afterward his licks creep into my playing: a singer/guitar player friend of mine noticed this and mentioned it to me. He thought I was doing it on purpose, but it was just from listening to LW for a half hour on my way to the venue. As soon as I started listening to the BT I was hearing the original harp.
I had been considering giving your challenge a try, but after listening to the track, I will pass on this exercise. I seem to be susceptible to unconscious musical suggestion.
I look forward to seeing if others take the challenge and can overcome the covert harp track in the BT.
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Doug S.
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Frank
4465 posts
Jun 06, 2014
9:37 AM
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I hear you Doug, I think if you try, you'll see it can be overcome...If you hear yourself going there and using a facsimile of "a Walter lick" use it as a jumping off point back to your improvisation :)
I know for a lot players here that this BT will be difficult to groove to and improvise too - but to those who have some decent improve skills it should be doable.
I would love to here what folks come up with :)
Last Edited by Frank on Jun 06, 2014 9:40 AM
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jnorem
254 posts
Jun 06, 2014
9:14 PM
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How do I use this, then? I've downloaded the file, but I have no idea of how to overdub harmonica on it.
I have a little digital home studio, but how would I open this file in Apple Sound System?
Edit: Never mind, I got it.
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Call me J
Last Edited by jnorem on Jun 06, 2014 9:20 PM
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Frank
4477 posts
Jun 07, 2014
5:51 AM
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S58...you da man - and a very brave one at that...thank you for your participation and I enjoyed hearing your take on that rhytmn. Hopefully others will see they won't die if they "give it a shot"
Be pretty cool if someone added lyrics to it or even record to it with a Chromatic :)
Last Edited by Frank on Jun 07, 2014 5:53 AM
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1847
1862 posts
Jun 07, 2014
9:30 AM
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frank that was a chromatic
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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Frank
4480 posts
Jun 07, 2014
9:59 AM
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Wow - 58 fooled me good - now that I listen to it with ear phones yeah...some incredible bending of notes for using a chrome, again - fine effort ")
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STME58
877 posts
Jun 07, 2014
5:15 PM
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That was not a chromatic. It was a box stock Hohner Marine Band. I recorded using the built in mic on my PC and added a little reverb in Audacity. I did notice the similarity in sound to a chrome which got me to thinking, what is it about a chrome that gives it it's distinctive sound?
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tookatooka
3659 posts
Jun 08, 2014
2:49 AM
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You're gonna kill me for this coz I don't know what the original recording sounds like so I'm gonna have a go at this and come at it with fresh ears. Be interesting to see what(If anything) comes out. Thanks Frank, love a challenge. May take a while though.
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The Iceman
1716 posts
Jun 08, 2014
7:12 AM
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STME58:
Ya, mon.
Started out kinda wandering, but you settled into some nice ideas.
It's not easy to improv over the I chord for extended period of time.
In a sense, this is what Miles Davis brought to jazz with his modal explorations. His take was that without chord changes to define what you play, you have complete freedom, although it means dipping deeper into one's well of inspiration.
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The Iceman
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STME58
878 posts
Jun 08, 2014
10:41 PM
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Frank, thanks for posting the challenge. I had been thinking of posting something but was hesitant, knowing that my playing is not up to the level of most who post here. Seeing you asked for it, I gave it a try.
I appreciate the kind and encouraging words from Frank and Iceman. One thing I learned from this, listening to my own recording, which relates to the other thread Frank started about "good" players, is my timing needs work. I'm sure there is other information in there about what needs work, but at the state my ears are in now, the timing stands out.
I hope to hear some other postings on this soon.
Last Edited by STME58 on Jun 08, 2014 10:42 PM
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Jim Rumbaugh
997 posts
Jun 09, 2014
10:11 AM
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STME58
I'm glad you "gave it a try". I will testify that recording yourself can be VERY humbling. I've done it and I've been humbled myself. Keep it up. It will help you grow. At least, I've learned a few things that way.
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theharmonicaclub.com (of Huntington, WV)
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Pistolcat
634 posts
Jun 09, 2014
1:02 PM
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@ stme58 - I like your playing. Totally new as per request. I'm not sure that your timing was off. I mean, in the recording it was off but I suspect it may be because of your recording equipment. Internal mics are crappy... I believe there was a recording latency... If you still have the tracks you can try to time-shift your harp a bit and see if you can get it to fit better.
Talking from my own experience here... ;)
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Pistolkatt - Pistolkatts youtube
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walterharp
1403 posts
Jun 09, 2014
6:45 PM
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Here is a take
gear test, line out from Memphis Mini to digitech rp355 as an interface, with a little reverb from the effects box. 1 take, then to audacity to clip, fade in and out and compress a little.
Last Edited by walterharp on Jun 09, 2014 6:46 PM
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STME58
879 posts
Jun 09, 2014
7:37 PM
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@Pistolcat, Thanks for the tech tip. The latency in my mic tested to be 255 milliseconds and the default correction in audacity was 130 ms. I made the correction and it sounds much better, still a few timing errors but I will have to own those. I edited the original post and added the corrected version.
You used the phrase "Totally new", but there is nothing new under the sun. I had Dennis Gruenling's version of "Up the Line" in mind as I recorded this.
Last Edited by STME58 on Jun 09, 2014 8:56 PM
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BronzeWailer
1303 posts
Jun 09, 2014
11:27 PM
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Thanks Frank. Your challenge has driven me mad. It's a good exercise though. I will never be happy with what I have done but this version sucks a little less than my others. Thanks for the tip Pistolcat. I haven't used Audacity and thought my timing was even more out than ever.
Dunno if this will work.
my attempt
BronzeWailer's YouTube
Last Edited by BronzeWailer on Jul 03, 2014 1:16 AM
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blingty
27 posts
Jun 10, 2014
10:06 AM
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Some great ideas there guys - well done.
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Frank
4496 posts
Jun 11, 2014
4:33 AM
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Wharp and Bwailer...more brave souls venturing into the imaginative gravitational pull of this Jam track - very cool endeavors, thank you for sharing your ideals :)
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dougharps
646 posts
Jun 19, 2014
3:27 PM
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Well, Frank and all, I finally set up gear and gave it a shot, first take, warts and all. I can't say I am totally satisfied with my effort, but here it is in an unlisted YouTube.
Now I can listen to the efforts of the others above. I didn't check them out as I thought it might influence my choices when playing.
That track really made it difficult to be creative, since I have heard it with LW's playing so many times and it has such a relentless repetitive groove.
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Doug S.
Last Edited by dougharps on Dec 04, 2017 9:30 AM
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Frank
4570 posts
Jun 20, 2014
5:48 AM
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Everyones tone and attacks and visionary approaches are sounding righteous....I'm really enjoying hearing these renditions - hope others can record something too :)
STME58...yeah man listened again and a few high points for me were at 43 sec to 53....then at 1 min 2 secs to 13 sec....again at 1 min 28 sec to 48 sec then what you did at 3 min 19 secs to the end I thouhg t was slick :)
Walterharp you got that Deakharp feel to this tune...liked the way you started off the groove of the song....and worked up to that lick at 50 secs to 60 secs... 2 min 14 secs to 22 secs i really liked.. and. at 3 min 1 sec to the end. Those are just some stand outs for me, it was cool how you kept a fat groove and threw in those little ditties here and there throughout the song.
Bronzewailer...yeah man, you let the track breathe with that acoustic approuch...some spot that stuck out for me were 1 min 17 secs to 24 and how you repeated it...also at 2 min 34 secs to 3 min 4 secs nice riffs giving the track a nice feel of groove and space.
Pretty f&%$ing cool Doug...The spots that really stood out for me were at 1 min 59 secs to 2 min 10 secs... and at 3 min 23 sec to 36 secs...Your a trooper and have some chops to spare my friend :)
Last Edited by Frank on Jun 20, 2014 5:50 AM
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walterharp
1420 posts
Jun 20, 2014
6:01 AM
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thanks Frank, could do worse than be compared to Deakharp! Appreciate you taking the time to listen.
All the other takes are great, it is really cool how different each one is! Well done gents!
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WinslowYerxa
624 posts
Jun 20, 2014
10:12 AM
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OK, here's mine. Played on third-position chromatic in a single take and no edits (but with post-processing for sound). I call it Conspiracy Theory.
Conspiracy Theory
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Winslow
Plunge into the SPAH Experience, August 5-9, 2014
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The Iceman
1755 posts
Jun 20, 2014
10:21 AM
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Good job, Winslow.
Am fascinated by the double stops. The notes used by you do change with a firm sense of musicality - in other words, top voice may be lead while second one harmonizes, second one determined by what you are looking for in an interval sound.
Thematically, like the way you start, referencing the notes/rhythm of the original piece. Then you do variations. Very classical.
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The Iceman
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WinslowYerxa
625 posts
Jun 20, 2014
10:52 AM
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Thanks, Larry.
On the variation thing, I think Walter did something like that. Only he doesn't try to create exact echoes of what he did before. It's more like he's paraphrasing himself while expanding on the earlier idea. What I did was more or less along that line, without planning, just going for it in the moment. As a result you can hear that my time isn't as sharp as it could be and there are a couple of mistakes, but this can be a great way of developing a new piece - play, see what comes out, then after several takes, start shaping and sharpening.
Later, new ideas can keep coming along. I wonder whether Walter played Roller Coaster live, and if so, how it developed from night to night. I'll bet if he did play it live, it went on longer than three minutes.
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Winslow
Plunge into the SPAH Experience, August 5-9, 2014
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dougharps
649 posts
Jun 20, 2014
11:06 AM
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Winslow, I enjoyed your 3rd position chromatic version! I had considered chromatic since Frank had mentioned it, but went diatonic in my 2nd position improvisation.
Like Larry, I was taken by your use of tongue blocked split interval chords and not just octaves or open chords as is done in standard blues chromatic in 3rd. Nice creative take on it.
I may have to give a shot at 1st position E chromatic over this track one of these days.
I hope that other forum members give it a shot. It is really interesting to hear what different approaches players have to the same track. A one chord song really makes you stretch.
One of the things I love about SPAH and workshops like the Harmonica Collective [edit: also HarmoniCollege] are that you get to hear so many players approach the same song in so many different ways.
Frank, do you have something recorded over this track that is different from the original?
Come on forum members: take a risk and put up something in response to Frank's challenge.
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Doug S.
Last Edited by dougharps on Jun 21, 2014 8:57 PM
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Frank
4577 posts
Jun 20, 2014
11:55 AM
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I've not recorded in while - I should be setting things up again in a month or two, hopefully sooner...
I have been practicing playing Roller Coaster to the BT and then I'll play the BT and do my thing with it to get a feel for what I would personally like to do with it.
Like you guys - I find myself really needing to hunker down and let my ideals find their way into the the relentless groove.
So - yes I will be attempting to do an improvisation to the BT...
Or if I were smart I could just borrow/steal the best riffs from the versions you guys put up and build my song from those - ( sinister laughing ) :)
Will listen to the Great Winslow Y. version tomorrow, thanks a lot for throwin down Mr. President :)
Last Edited by Frank on Jun 20, 2014 11:57 AM
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tookatooka
3666 posts
Jun 20, 2014
12:32 PM
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I tried and tried Frank but single chord stuff evades me at the moment. I'll still try though.
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Frank
4580 posts
Jun 20, 2014
1:53 PM
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Tooka - I have feeling you'll do fine...
I was hopin Adam G. would give it go, he has that type of hardcore riffin in his blood and would unleash a hellish version I suspect :)
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BronzeWailer
1320 posts
Jun 20, 2014
2:59 PM
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Great stuff all. Interesting to see how people respond to the same challenge. Thanks Frank for taking the time and trouble to set up the challenge, listen and comment. You are stimulating my grey (and getting greyer) cells. Look forward to yours Frank, and anyone else on the forum who will have a crack.
BronzeWailer's YouTube
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Frank
4586 posts
Jun 21, 2014
4:09 AM
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Winslow your a mean Mother when you want to be - hard for me to describe what I'm hearing - but it is a wall of excellent sound - put on your best ear phones folks - turn the volume up and take a train ride through Hells fiery terrain :)
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dougharps
652 posts
Jun 21, 2014
12:24 PM
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I just listened to the above different approaches to the track once more, and I love all of them.
When you play over that seemingly short track, time seems to stretch and your ability to improvise more than a few ideas is really challenged. A LOT tougher than comping behind vocals and then taking 24 bars of solo over 1-4-5 changes.
Good job, everyone!
I hope some more list members join the fun. I really enjoy hearing people try stuff like this.
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Doug S.
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Frank
4599 posts
Jun 21, 2014
12:33 PM
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There is no doubt it is challenging but as all these guys have proved, it can be done...Who will be next ot jump into the fire :)
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tookatooka
3668 posts
Jun 23, 2014
9:36 AM
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OK Frank I'm ready to get burnt. Took a while but it is a difficult thing to do especially in one Key. I've shortened the BT to just over 2 minutes, I don't think anyone would want to listen past that. Oh! and the harp is on two tracks, I multi-tracked it. (Just showing off).
Last Edited by tookatooka on Jun 23, 2014 9:39 AM
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Frank
4635 posts
Jun 23, 2014
1:00 PM
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Nice Tooka...I liked the way you mixed that, it sounds great. Good array of meaty riffs - sorta had that train theme to it that I enjoy too...Good on ya brother - your imagination is intact :)
Last Edited by Frank on Jun 23, 2014 1:01 PM
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dougharps
658 posts
Jun 23, 2014
2:33 PM
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I noticed the train theme, too. On a couple occasions your version reminded me of the first part of Orange Blossom Special.
Thanks for following through and giving us your take on the track!
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Doug S.
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tookatooka
3669 posts
Jun 23, 2014
2:57 PM
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Thanks Frank and dougharps. That was hard work. There must be loads more that can be done but it's just finding it. Good lesson though. Next challenge please.
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BronzeWailer
1323 posts
Jun 23, 2014
3:06 PM
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Nice job Tooka. I wanted to listen more so played it again, which is a good sign. :)
BronzeWailer's YouTube
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STME58
945 posts
Jun 23, 2014
9:51 PM
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Well done Tooka. When I saw the comment about the train theme I could not imagine how you worked that in. When I listend I thought it was very nicely done.
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Pistolcat
638 posts
Jun 24, 2014
3:35 PM
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Ok gents! Very nice playing all! Very smart with your doubling track Tooka! the chugging really keeps it swinging. Love that third position, BW. That really fits the bill of renewing/reinvent this great song. Doug, Very nice TB technique. Really enjoyed it!
Here's my take. Not sparkling imaginative I'm afraid but it was a great workout for my TB:ing.
Great and fun challenge Frank! I tried to make you pround (check out the mic, art and wife beater) ;)
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Pistolkatt - Pistolkatts youtube
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tookatooka
3671 posts
Jun 25, 2014
7:33 AM
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Kudos to all you guys who gave this a shot. Dougharps, Winslow, Bronzewailer, STME58, Pistolcat. I purposely didn't listen to your attempts at cracking this one for fear of getting influenced. However, there's some good work going on here and I'm hoping to give it another shot soon. Who would have thought this could have been so difficult?
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Pistolcat
639 posts
Jun 25, 2014
9:37 AM
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Hey , Tooka. Another thing i forgot to mention on your track: Your playing sounded really bluesy! Especially in the first two thirds. I'm just saying this as you have commented earlier that you sometimes doesn't get it as bluesy as you like...
And Winslow! I'm sorry I forgot to mention your track! It was amazing, almost surreal! I really need to learn to play my chrome! I solemnly pledge that my next videoprojet will be on the Chrome. D minor blues I think...
Edit: And Walterharp! Sorry man, My head is not were it supposed today... Liked your take... Now that I relistened to it i must say I reminded me of my own track some. I like the way you build it up as it travels along. Good stuff man!
/El gato
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Pistolkatt - Pistolkatts youtube
Last Edited by Pistolcat on Jun 25, 2014 10:40 AM
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Frank
4650 posts
Jun 25, 2014
3:04 PM
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Yeah Pcat, your prowled around that groove - stalked it like prey and pounced...what a sound too - tone for days, you have a good ear for thick toned harp. Congratulations on entering this very difficult challenge, you did yourself proud with your version :)
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BronzeWailer
1326 posts
Jun 26, 2014
4:22 AM
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Plus one on Frank's tone comments, el gato! Muy bueno.
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BronzeWailer's YouTube
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Diggsblues
1408 posts
Jul 02, 2014
9:43 AM
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I'm just learning the new garage band.
I thought this would be a fun first project
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Pistolcat
651 posts
Jul 02, 2014
10:32 AM
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Diggsblues - cool stuff. Really out there.
Tmf714 - that was just fantastic! Was that you or Jason playing??
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Pistolkatt - Pistolkatts youtube
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WinslowYerxa
642 posts
Jul 02, 2014
1:04 PM
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The point of this thread is to be original, not to recite verbatim what someone else already came up with. After all, nobody is better at playing Little Walter than Mr. Jacobs himself.
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Winslow
Plunge into the SPAH Experience, August 5-9, 2014
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Gnarly
1045 posts
Jul 02, 2014
4:52 PM
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Edited my remarks since the previous track was altered.
That's the way it goes, sometimes . . .
Last Edited by Gnarly on Jul 02, 2014 8:12 PM
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tmf714
2635 posts
Jul 02, 2014
5:35 PM
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Edited my post to include 4th position-so-yes it works.
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tmf714
2636 posts
Jul 02, 2014
5:41 PM
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Tomorrow I will cut a take in 5th on C chrom-
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WinslowYerxa
643 posts
Jul 02, 2014
6:10 PM
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Improving on the master is not the point. Being yourself is the point.
And the clip of someone else trying to play Walter's version verbatim fails on both counts.
That cut on G chromatic does not work. It sounds like the harmonica is playing in a different key from the backing track - because it is. All those draw chords on a G chromatic add up to an A minor 6 chord played against an E-B-E guitar background. Sounds wrong. The C in the A minor chord clashes with the B note, and the F# in the A minor 6 chord clashes with the E note. And A played agains an E bass will try to undercut the E key center (because E is the 5th of A).
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Winslow
Plunge into the SPAH Experience, August 5-9, 2014
Last Edited by WinslowYerxa on Jul 03, 2014 12:48 AM
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