tmf714
2637 posts
Jul 02, 2014
6:18 PM
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And this is coming from the guy that thinks Juke starts with 7 notes?
But like I said- I will take a new cut tomorrow in 5th on a C-or maybe a Low D in third-
I put the verbatim version up for Frank because he was asking about it-he knows what it means.
Last Edited by tmf714 on Jul 02, 2014 6:34 PM
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Gnarly
1046 posts
Jul 02, 2014
8:13 PM
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Juke til ya puke, y'all . . .
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Jehosaphat
766 posts
Jul 02, 2014
9:49 PM
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Holy shit you guys can play.I went to the trouble of running my laptop through my stereo system to listen to all the tracks.
It's not a competition so i won't name my favorites..
suffice to say i ran a couple of them a few times to soak it all in.
As they say in Bullfights..Bravo!
One thing i did notice though is how important it is to be able to manipulate the recording set up(something i've never managed) some tracks were a bit let down by the recording system compared to others.
Great playing all round though.
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dougharps
667 posts
Jul 03, 2014
11:09 AM
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Well, I said I would try it on an E chromatic, so here it is. I think I preferred the diatonic A in 2nd to this one. I had several failed takes on this due to choking reeds or having my timing slip even more than on this version.
Anyway, I have been enjoying the different versions of this. Of all of Frank's recent threads, I like this one the most.
I hope that other list members continue to join in and post a version for the challenge.
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Doug S.
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Frank
4757 posts
Jul 03, 2014
1:38 PM
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The cool cut of the very Roller Coasterish sounding tune that Tom slipped in - is a live recording with Steve Cohen on harp giving his worthy nod to the Great Little Walter ...Thanks Tom :)
If someone would like to post their interpretation of the original Roller Coaster using the BT that's fine...But, "for this thread at least" please also include another version where you are doing strictly your own ideals and imaginative twists and turns to the Bt :)
The purpose here is not to re-create Walters version ( which is also challenging to say the least ) But to try to do your own improvisational ride to the Bt "which is even more challenging" -- but possible... which these brave and talented members have proven :)
Last Edited by Frank on Jul 03, 2014 2:28 PM
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tmf714
2638 posts
Jul 03, 2014
2:55 PM
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Sorry Frank-posted it to the wrong thread-but wanted you to hear-did not mean to hijack it.
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Frank
4758 posts
Jul 03, 2014
3:55 PM
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Naw...didn't bother me - "I got it" and much appreciate you taking the time to locate the tape and posting Steve's excellent version of that classic rhythm and riff laced roller coaster ride...
Diggs that was a haunting melody, quite different and dazzling yet tempered - the tonal note choices sounded similar to a tune I heard Winslow do before?
Doug - that was heavy duty harpin, I can tell you were experimenting and havin a heckofa lot fun - pretty friggin cool dude :)
Last Edited by Frank on Jul 03, 2014 3:57 PM
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dougharps
668 posts
Jul 06, 2014
8:08 AM
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Thanks, Frank!
What seems odd to me is that on a forum this size with the many really good players who post here regularly only 8 people were willing to take the risk and put themselves out there playing over this iconic one chord track. I really enjoyed hearing the approaches of those who put their music up on this thread.
I would have expected 2 or 3 times as many participants from the MBH forum posting their takes.
I have heard amazing recordings of music from people who post on the forum. I hoped to hear what they did with this challenge.
Oh, well...
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Doug S.
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Frank
4766 posts
Jul 06, 2014
8:22 AM
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It can be a rather difficult Rhythm to improvise too and my guess is a lot of players tried to play something to the Back Track and realized they weren't up for the challenge for whatever reasons - :)
Last Edited by Frank on Jul 06, 2014 8:26 AM
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tookatooka
3682 posts
Jul 06, 2014
1:53 PM
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Don't let this thread die just yet. I'm determined to give this another crack when I get time.
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Frank
4773 posts
Jul 06, 2014
7:51 PM
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Goin with the train theme :)
Last Edited by Frank on Jul 07, 2014 5:42 AM
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walterharp
1441 posts
Jul 06, 2014
7:57 PM
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nice frank, love the deep feel around 2:10
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Gnarly
1047 posts
Jul 06, 2014
8:17 PM
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Hi kids--
Doug has shamed me into contributing!
So here it, my first take on this track, using a Powerbender in A--this must be a harp I repaired for somebody, probably Lance Dieckmann--I don't really know the PB, but neither do I know Rollercoaster!
Have some fun with it!
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dougharps
671 posts
Jul 06, 2014
10:05 PM
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@Frank
I loved the chugging that you revisited, and I liked the ascending and descending single note line first heard around 2:24. Good build up to the climax, too! Talk about some chops!
I found it really made me stretch for ideas. How about you? You have probably practiced the original a lot more than I have. Was it hard not to slip into LWs version?
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Doug S.
Last Edited by dougharps on Jul 06, 2014 10:07 PM
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dougharps
672 posts
Jul 06, 2014
10:23 PM
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@gnarly
Thanks for jumping into the challenge! To play a strange tuning, over a track of a Little Walter hit you don't know shows a willingness to take risks. You provided a really interesting take on this song. The way you approached it on the PB and the unusual chords is intriguing. I don't really need another alternate tuning, but I guess I will read up on it.
Good job, Gary!
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Doug S.
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Frank
4774 posts
Jul 07, 2014
6:00 AM
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Doug...yeah, for ideals...I found it was easier to latch onto them by thinking rhythmically...I was't thinking of Walters tune so that I could concentrate on what I was imagining...His playing was a huge inspiration on how to attack the BT though :)
Gary thanks a heck of a lot for playin that for us - You made some modern strides there for sure...incredible what that harp can do :) I
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Gnarly
1049 posts
Jul 07, 2014
12:18 PM
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Thanks guys! I didn't set this harp up, but all the notes worked.
As far as the tuning, I usually adjust while playing a strange tuning (unless it is too strange--I auditioned a FourKey before settling on the PB--not enough bends for a blues performance, IMHO) since most harmonicas are tuned to chords.
I have a chrom tuned to D Bebop Orchestra, that would put me in third position, I will try to make that happen.
Edit--I wasn't wild about the chrom, and so will not be posting audio. However, see my next post.
Last Edited by Gnarly on Jul 10, 2014 10:15 AM
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tmf714
2640 posts
Jul 07, 2014
1:32 PM
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Wow-after listening to Gnarlys track it made me think of putting my original track back up-
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dougharps
673 posts
Jul 07, 2014
2:56 PM
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@tmf714
If it is an original interpretation of the track, I wish you would put it back up. I never had the chance to hear it.
I am sure that flaws could be found in all the cuts, certainly I hear them in my cuts.
To me it is just plain interesting to hear what people try. And if it doesn't work on some level, so what?
The idea is being creative.
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Doug S.
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tmf714
2641 posts
Jul 07, 2014
3:00 PM
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True Doug-but I am waiting for a new harp-when I receive it,I will put up a more worthy version.
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Gnarly
1050 posts
Jul 07, 2014
5:51 PM
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The version tmf714 put up was interesting in an atonal way. He was playing in a different key than the backing track!
I am not trying to compete with him, and I am certain that any number of blues harmonica players can deliver a more convincing performance than mine.
Although I spend more time than I should with the harmonica in general (ask my wife), I play music better on other instruments--strings.
But my version has it's own charm . . . if you like that sort of thing . . .
And I am happy with what I am getting from my assortment of diatonic harps, they come in handy when I need to play guitar, sing and play lead without background tracks. I just did a job a couple of days ago where the details of the gig changed at the last minute, I shudder to think of how it might have turned out if I hadn't had that resource.
But I only played one blues! Kind of an improvised version of Night Owl Blues--John Sebastian is my go to guy . . .
Last Edited by Gnarly on Jul 10, 2014 10:18 AM
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WinslowYerxa
649 posts
Jul 07, 2014
6:08 PM
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Here's a tangential submission.
It's a Canadian fiddle tune called the Two-Step Polka. It has chord changes and a melody. But I think you'll hear a certain resemblance to the tune under discussion and action in this 2003 harmonica version.
Two-Step Polka
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Winslow
Plunge into the SPAH Experience, August 5-9, 2014
Last Edited by WinslowYerxa on Jul 07, 2014 6:09 PM
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Frank
4777 posts
Jul 08, 2014
4:43 AM
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I'm going to steal Gary's word...that was charming :)Is that your Back Track Winslow can you post it? And thanks for using the word "tangential" it made my day :)l
Last Edited by Frank on Jul 08, 2014 4:45 AM
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WinslowYerxa
650 posts
Jul 08, 2014
7:50 AM
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Thanks, Frank.
Yes, that's my backing track. I can post it but it has chord progressions in the keys of Eb and Bb in three different verse structures. If anyone wants to tackle that. they're welcome. I used an Eb harp and a and Bb harp to play pre-existing melodies (OK, I took a few liberties) in first position.
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Winslow
Plunge into the SPAH Experience, August 5-9, 2014
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Gnarly
1053 posts
Jul 08, 2014
10:11 AM
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"It was different!"
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tookatooka
3683 posts
Jul 09, 2014
8:40 AM
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My 2nd attempt. Once again a shortened backing track and I've put harp on three separate tracks. I think I've exhausted my ideas bank for this track now. This has been a fun challenge and I've enjoyed listening to what the other guys have thrown up on the forum. Thanks.
Last Edited by tookatooka on Jul 09, 2014 8:41 AM
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Komuso
342 posts
Jul 09, 2014
8:42 PM
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Inspiring stuff from everyone.
Thought I'd take a crack at it while fiddling with some new patches on the G3.
I call this patch "Astro Boy".
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Paul Cohen aka Komuso Tokugawa
HarpNinja - Your harmonica Mojo Dojo
Bringing the Boogie to the Bitstream
Last Edited by Komuso on Jul 09, 2014 8:53 PM
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dougharps
676 posts
Jul 10, 2014
8:34 AM
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@Gnarly
It WAS different! You are playing some strange harmonicas, my friend... Thanks for taking it to interesting places and letting us hear something completely different.
@ tookatooka
Thanks for giving us a second take! You seem very comfortable with recording multiple tracks. The Orange Blossomesque train theme was even more clear, and an enjoyable approach. This recording seemed even more focused to me than the first. Good job!
@Komuso
Your patch is very organ-like, and that worked well with the melody you played. I found the scale you chose to be very interesting. The name you gave it fit the song well. Was that 5th position Phrygian Mode on a C diatonic, or did you use an alternate tuning on the harp? I enjoyed it!
@tookatooka & Komuso
I really like to hear different players approach a song and I enjoyed both your recordings a lot, but come on guys! For me, part of the challenge is to have to strain for ideas during the last 1:40 of the track.
You guys could have run the whole marathon instead of stopping at 15 miles! ;-)
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Doug S.
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Gnarly
1057 posts
Jul 10, 2014
10:14 AM
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Doug--I find playing standard tuning diatonic to be limiting.
OTOH, the sound of the bent reed is the signature of the blues harp.
I posted this to Slidemeister--it's obviously chromatic, but lots of the kinds of artifacts we associate with diatonic.
http://www.slidemeister.com/forums/index.php?topic=10439.0
It's audio of a Harry Nilsson song, an unused take of one of his middle period songs--I bet it's Tommy Morgan.
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dougharps
678 posts
Jul 10, 2014
10:29 AM
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I do bend select notes on chromatic for effect (I posted a chromatic version of the song Fog Town at different times on another thread here, on Harp-L and on Slidemeister), but there is a distinct difference in the sound of diatonic and chromatic bends. I think I would have preferred diatonic on that cut.
By the way, I had to log in to Slidemeister to download the mp3.
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Doug S.
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Gnarly
1058 posts
Jul 10, 2014
10:33 AM
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I liked the way he placed the minor third over the major chord--not blue, but plaintive.
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Komuso
343 posts
Jul 10, 2014
8:14 PM
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@doug
Harp was Lee Oskar Em Natural played Em in 2nd position
4th position also sounds good on standard tuning (taking a cue from Diggsblues nice natural/harmonic minor good bad ugly approach) and 5th was next to try on my list.
re: Length
Sure thing, but I only did a couple of takes and haven't really worked out what I want to do with it yet so just thought I'd post "something, anything" from some initial jamming.
I think I have the core riff I want, but need to put some real work in to tell a real story over the whole track length. Sorry! (Actually there was a bridge out at 2 minutes and Vlad flew off into the depths of sonic hell...)
I'll probably tool around with it some more later, but fwiw here is the process I used to approach it so far:
Analysis of Song Structure:
The track is an intro then 13 verses of 8 bars in a repeating E1 E2 B1 E2 guitar riff over a 2-step beat (close enough?).
A drum fill separates each verse.
Listening to the elements in the backing there's lots of different things to play off and develop a melody: the bass drum, hihats, guitar cycle, with the fills as well.
I used Izotope Ozone as a mastering plugin and used a preset to fatten the BT up a bit to bring out some of these elements a little more.
Melodic Approach:
As the guitar is a 1-5 riff you can pretty much play any major or minor scale over it or even both.
I made a conscious decision to go minor as a way to do something "different" so initially it was a search for what position/tuning might best fit.
I tried 4th position first, and liked it, but then settled on the Natural Minor tuning as I needed to do some more work on them anyway so seemed like a good excuse.
I also tried standard 2nd with 3 hole 1/2 bend for minor but found the minor positions/alt tunings worked better in this case to be able to come up with a riff or motif that was "different".
My plan was to roughly follow Dave Barrett's improvisation approach do AABBCCAABBCCD type verse and variation (another good opportunity to put some theory into practice).
Instrumentation:
I tried a couple of different FX from clean to dirt to whacky and settled on the whacky as it fit the vision of the melody and story which evolved as I was playing around to come up with a motif that I could hang the improvisation off.
I play a lot of one chord boogie stuff a la Junior Kimbrough and RL Burnside but this one is really different, probably due to the 1-5 openness to major/minor as well as the 2-step. The more you play with it the more interesting it gets, from filling it up with sound to letting it breathe with lots of space.
Kudo's to Frank for the selection, and the approaches from everyone.
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Paul Cohen aka Komuso Tokugawa
HarpNinja - Your harmonica Mojo Dojo
Bringing the Boogie to the Bitstream
Last Edited by Komuso on Jul 11, 2014 12:18 AM
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Komuso
344 posts
Jul 10, 2014
9:46 PM
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I'd be interested in hearing how other players approach this too. Different strokes yada yada!
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Paul Cohen aka Komuso Tokugawa
HarpNinja - Your harmonica Mojo Dojo
Bringing the Boogie to the Bitstream
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walterharp
1450 posts
Jul 11, 2014
11:33 AM
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my approach for this kind of thing is to lay down a grove, with minor variations, build it for a while, then jump to a very simple new idea and build that, try to refer to the first groove and mix them together, then throw in another new idea... but eventually revisiting the earlier ideas and holding the reference groove.. then near the end do something to signal the end is coming. but way less structured or planned than what you are describing Paul.
I like the newer versions, and doing a second take is a great idea.. probably even harder than sounding original, is sounding original from yourself.
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Frank
4798 posts
Jul 11, 2014
11:54 AM
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I'm really enjoying the musical contributions to this thread, along with the commentary...Hellish ride straight into the devils territory Paul, hope you made it back to earth unscorched :)
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tookatooka
3685 posts
Jul 11, 2014
12:04 PM
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I'd like to give a technical overview of what I do and how I approached it but I'd probably scare myself cos I don't know all that stuff. I just stick it in my cakehole and hope for the best. :)
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walterharp
1456 posts
Jul 14, 2014
6:12 PM
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Another take....
sure 545 bulletized by greg, into Akai headrush with heavy delay, tapped in to match tempo, into RP 355 CD/AC patch.. compressed and fade in and fade out in Audacity.
yeah, i know, but it was fun doing it....
give me some feedback
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Frank
4820 posts
Jul 15, 2014
7:53 AM
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Man you transformed that coaster into a space ship and launched it to outer space Walter - good God, the aliens have arrived and they can play some mean harp :)
Last Edited by Frank on Jul 15, 2014 7:55 AM
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