SuperBee
1971 posts
May 11, 2014
9:15 PM
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I have a country-tuned sp20. It's tuned ET.
I don't know if this is normal for a CT Sp20.
I guess since the point of CT is generally to play melodies, ET probably makes sense.
The issue really is that it's 25 cents sharp across the board. Like, that's sharp enough to notice. Of course, when you play such a harp, you have to play your bent notes relative to the rest of the harp. Easy enough when you play solo, trickier when accompanied. But the whole thing sounds a bit wrong anyway.
So I either file the entire harp,
Or I use another G harp and file the 5 Draw
If I did that I would use a standard special 20 because I don't have any equal tuned harps
So my question is...how would I tune the (raised) 5 draw on an otherwise "standard SP20" tuned harp?
Would it be right to just raise it a half step relative to it's original pitch?
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arzajac
1364 posts
May 12, 2014
4:12 AM
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The thirds are 12 cents flat on a stock SP20. I wouldn't worry about it and just sharpen the 5 draw. You can even sharpen the 9 draw too so you can get that major seventh in the top octave.
The 1-2-3-4 draw chord will sound nice and playing melody notes should sound fine, too. But if you try it and those thirds (blow 2, 5 and 8 and draw 3 and 7) sound flat, you can raise them by as many cents as you need. You may not need to take them all the way to zero. How much do you need to compromise or how close you come to ET is up to you and your ears.
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Last Edited by arzajac on May 12, 2014 4:13 AM
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GMaj7
406 posts
May 12, 2014
9:50 AM
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I think Andrew hits the science of it pretty much..
However, since Country Tuning is primarily for 2nd position, I would lean towards having this harp on something much closer to Just or a compromise.. It is true that the harp is good for melodies... but you also get the basic I, IV, V .. chords so you can vamp with the band...
Just my thoughts.. Either way .. Good on you for using Maj7th/Country Tuned harp..
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Greg Jones
16:23 Custom Harmonicas
greg@1623customharmonicas.com
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barbequebob
2548 posts
May 12, 2014
10:32 AM
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Sp20's, unless specially ordered or from a customizer, have NEVER come out of the factory tuned ET since they first came out in 1974.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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MP
3201 posts
May 12, 2014
10:45 AM
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---Hi Bee,
If you live in a warm climate that would make your harps play sharp.
I've run into new harps that are 25 cents sharp across the board.
I remember a harpwrench post where he said harps sometimes go sharp and he didn't know why.
I tune a lot and right now I'm working on a C SP/20 that wants to stay sharp. It's being a real jerk about it too.
Anyway, when I plink, I plink vigorously. When I tune I play the hell out of the harp after I've plinked every reed several times. Do this to the harp in question and check the tuning w/ soft breath. Then normal breath.
This should give you a better idea as to just how sharp the harp really is.
Ditto on dumping the ET. ET kinda bums me out when I play chords.
Thoughts on ET vs Compromise/Just Intonation
Some people have a very western European idea of melody and are therefore melodic players. ET suits them well because they do not care for the percussive nature of world beat music.
I consider blues to be world beat because it fits the criteria of that broad genre and some of my band (bassist and drummer) and my bands audience are primarily WB enthusiasts.
PS hard plinking can lower pitch reading. -------
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Last Edited by MP on May 12, 2014 11:00 AM
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Gnarly
996 posts
May 12, 2014
10:46 AM
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Ears rule when it comes to tuning--
Harmonicas are tuned to chords, it makes sense to tune the chords so that they sound good.
So when you sharp the 5 (and 9) draw, make sure the notes sound good with the 4 (and 8) draw.
That interval is a major third, so I would think the note should be a little flatter than ET.
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MP
3202 posts
May 12, 2014
11:02 AM
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Yeah, "ears rule"
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harpwrench
838 posts
May 12, 2014
11:20 AM
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As the brass oxidizes it fills in the micro-space between the reed base and the plate, effectively shortening the reed and the pitch goes sharp.
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MP
3203 posts
May 12, 2014
12:51 PM
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@ wrench. Thanks.
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SuperBee
1974 posts
May 12, 2014
2:27 PM
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Thanks everyone for your comments.
If only I lived in a warm place, MP! It's relative of course. The rest of Australia is so much warmer they've convinced me it's cold here. It's a very mild maritime climate.
I played this harp for a guy who noted i was bending 4 draw flat, and asked me to do a quick check with the tuner...at which point we noticed the whole harp was not only sharp but ET. He was surprised about the ET. Taken with your comment Bob, I guess I've got a rogue harp.
I'm gonna have to retune the whole thing to play it with an accompanist. I guess now is probably the time i start learning to tune beyond touching up individual reeds.
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barbequebob
2555 posts
May 13, 2014
10:00 AM
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One thing to remember BEFORE attempting to retune a harmonica is the fact that when breath moisture and/or layers of dead skin dry out on a reed, the spot that it dries on DOES play a role in the reed's pitch. If it dries at a spot nearest to the rivet of the reed, the pitch of the reed will get sharp, but if it dries near the free end of the reed, the pitch of the reed will go flat, so before using rotary tools, files, or emery boards to tune them, I strongly urge you to clean the reeds and reed plate, and what I use is a lint free paper towel (cheapo stuff leaves lint, which will clog reeds in a hurry) and apply isoporopyl alcohol (preferably 91% by volume, but 70% will do) on it and then gently pat it dry and it should get it off, but don't wait too long because the more it builds up, the longer it'll take to clean up and the more it affects the pitch. Once you do this, often times retuning won't be necessary.
If you play with a very wet mouth, you're guaranteed to have tons of these problems and it gets even worse if you're guilty of using far too much breath force in your playing all the time and many players are often guilty of that.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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MP
3204 posts
May 13, 2014
11:11 AM
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----------Great advice on cleaning Bob! I use 91% in a two oz. spray-bottle on everything. Rags are squares cut from lint free t-shirts.
For breaking up rust inside the cover plates and getting that gross opaque film off the outside area and tabs I use a piece of chopstick. The sprayed 91% drys faster than 70% and loosens stuff. it's great for wiping covers clean.
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Last Edited by MP on May 13, 2014 11:12 AM
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SuperBee
1979 posts
May 13, 2014
3:25 PM
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Thanks. How about the ultrasonic? Seems to clean them up well. Alc in addition to that? Can't hurt I guess...
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arzajac
1365 posts
May 13, 2014
4:43 PM
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"How about the ultrasonic?"
Soap, water and a little careful effort are the very best at actually removing dirt and debris. The ultrasonic cleaner can do as good a job and you can get many plates done faster because they are done at the same time. If you overcrowd the U/C, though, you will lose efficiency.
As for Sp20s ET tuned, I have come across a few like that. They are oddballs. I'm sure it wasn't just one reed that was out of tune but every octave on the plate... And they all had factory tuning marks only.
I don't remember if those harps had both plates tuned ET because I can do large batches of harps from the same customer and I may tune each plate individually. But I did notice because SP20s are definitely not supposed to be ET. I guess someone wasn't paying attention at some point at the factory...
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Custom overblow harps. Harmonica service and repair.
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