|
Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Why Do Reed Plates Have To Protrude?
Why Do Reed Plates Have To Protrude?
Page:
1
jnorem
119 posts
Mar 21, 2014
5:23 PM
|
Those pieces of metal that stick out above and below the holes have always made my lips uncomfortable. But aside from that, doesn't it stand to reason that the playing surface would be made to be as smooth and comfortable as possible?
Right now I'm playing a Suzuki Promaster, great harmonica but the damn reed plates stick out. What with all the other advancements that have been made in harmonica design, why hasn't this been addressed?
Can anyone see any reason for the protruding reed plates, and, if not, why making it so the plates don't protrude hasn't been addressed by the manufacturers?
----------
Call me J
|
timeistight
1516 posts
Mar 21, 2014
8:28 PM
|
The Special 20's reedplates don't protrude.
|
WinslowYerxa
530 posts
Mar 21, 2014
9:34 PM
|
The simple sandwich is the simplest and easiest way to build a harmonica.
The reedplates don't actually protrude from the comb - they're flush with the front. Rather, it's the front edge of the covers that are recessed, exposing thefront edge of the reedblock (the comb-reedplate sandwich). A thin groove is cut into the reedplate to lock the edge of the cover into position and keep it from slipping over the front of the harmonica.
To conceal the exposed leading edge of the reed block, you must either add a mouthpiece, or make an injection-molded plastic comb with a "fence" around the edges of the reedplates, as is done with the Hohner Special 20, the Lee Oskar, and various other models. The moulds for injection moulding are very expensive to develop, and once made, the combs are very difficult to hand finish because you have to sand an inner surface - almost no manufactured comb is perfectly flat, and surface flattening is one of the first things done to an out-of-the-box harmonica to improve its performance.
Some harmonica players have no problem with exposed reedplates, while others prefer having them concealed and sunk into the comb. The great thing is that multiple models are available for both preferences.
Concealed reedplates are available in many models:
Hohner Special 20, Rocket, and in the cheap series, Hot Metal and Blues Band
Seydel Blues Session, Session Steel
Suzuki Harpmaster and Bluesmaster
Lee Oskar
----------
Winslow
Find out about the 2014 Spring Harmonica Collective!
SPONSORED BY
Lone Wolf Blues Company
Rockin’ Ron’s Music For Less
BlowsMeAway Productions
Slim’s Custom Cases
HarpGear
Seydel & Soehne
Last Edited by WinslowYerxa on Mar 21, 2014 9:39 PM
|
jnorem
120 posts
Mar 21, 2014
9:36 PM
|
Yes, I should have said that I play the Special 20, it's a great harmonica and it has a comfortable playing surface. I wish the Promaster did, I wish all harmonicas did.
----------
Call me J
|
jnorem
121 posts
Mar 21, 2014
9:48 PM
|
"The reedplates don't actually protrude from the comb - they're flush with the front."
But the reed plates do protrude from the comb, they stick out, they are not flush with the comb, that's the point. Just look at the big Marine Band up at the top of the page here. Are those plates flush with the front?
I put a Promaster on the counter top, playing surface down, and I look through it length-wise. I can see light between the comb and the counter top.
It's not a big deal, just something I thought I'd put up here.
----------
Call me J
|
rockmonkeyguitars
36 posts
Mar 22, 2014
5:20 AM
|
it has been my experiance that after five min playing a marine band the comb swells and is flush or the comb actually sticks out further.
|
sonny3
141 posts
Mar 22, 2014
5:41 AM
|
Yeah they are pretty well even on all my marine bands.There are many choices out there.I don't like the special 20 type.I've never got why the reedplates sticking out is a problem . I have never found one that is sharp or hurts my lips.I wonder if rice miller ever complained about protruding reedplates.
|
harp-er
544 posts
Mar 22, 2014
8:52 AM
|
Yes, he did. He chewed my ear off one night complaining about just that. Scared me, too, I tell ya. And that's not all he complained about, but I won't go into it here.
|
mlefree
150 posts
Mar 22, 2014
10:27 AM
|
FWIW, on many sandwich-type harmonicas, there is a bit of "slop" between the screws and their holes in the comb. On such harps, you can leave the screws just a tad loose, loose enough to move the comb around just a small amount with respect to the reed plates. You can then place the harp, on a flat surface with its holes down and the comb can then be pushed down as far as it will go towards the table top (or the reed plates pushed up, depending on how you look at it). Many times, depending on the model of harp, those reed plates will be very close to flush with the comb. The screws can then be tightened allowing the comb-reed plate relationship to remain. If the plates aren't flush enough to suit you, you can always enlarge the holes in the comb.
Works for me. :)
Michelle
----------
SilverWingLeather.com
email: mlefree@silverwingleather.com
Last Edited by mlefree on Mar 22, 2014 10:27 AM
|
laurent2015
653 posts
Mar 22, 2014
12:10 PM
|
Somewhere in 2012, I bought a set of 12 Golden Melody.
They have the same issue.
But the GM I bought in the 80's has no problem.
If there were a choice, I think the option would be offered to the customer (protruding yes-no).
I'm leaning for production standards issues.
|
jiceblues
305 posts
Mar 22, 2014
12:44 PM
|
I'm bored with sandwich-type harps .I play SP20's and gonna try a session steel .
|
nacoran
7636 posts
Mar 22, 2014
3:43 PM
|
The other option is to fine sand the front edge. It will still 'protrude' but it will be less jagged. Focus particularly on the corners. Mlefree's solution of playing with the placing is also useful. My Golden Melody is the worst of the bunch.
In addition to more traditional reed work and tone issues, one of the biggest differences between the cheap harps and the more expensive harps is attention to comfort details. If you look at the difference between a Sp20 and a Blues Band, take a look at the covers. They are basically the same design, but the front lip that is bent down to meet where the tabs touch the rest of the harp is left as is on the Blues Band. On the Sp20 there is more attention. Looks like they add a bit of welding to smooth it, or maybe it's a two staged bend? Lee Oskars don't, but they have slightly rounded cuts that fit together better. There seems to be a big difference in the level of finishing work like that between the standard MB and the Crossover.
Actually, the Golden Melody bugs me the most. It looks like a harp designed to be 'better'. It plays fine, but the corners on the reed plates are particularly snaggy, and everyone complains about the comb material being prone to chipping (yep, mine is chipped. I actually don't think it's the comb material though. I've got cheap Magnus harmonicas. Some of them are all plastic, but some use metal covers, and almost without fail, they all chip exactly where the metal supports come down onto plastic- Magnuses even use plastic reed plates- where do GM's chip? Right in the back, where the metal comes down on the plastic, because the covers are deeper than the combs.)
I can only think of one customizer, BlueXlabs, that offers combs that cover the front edge of the reed plate right on their site, and that involves much more expensive equipment. Considering that there are a lot of guys who think of plastic combs as the 'cheap' ones, I'm not surprised the companies don't do more to cover the reed plates.
Funny thing is, despite the usual comfort vs. price, the most comfortable harp on my lips (once the bad taste from the cheap paint wears off) is the Piedmonts I got when I first started off. I even tried putting their covers on a Sp20, but something about the plastic covers dampens the sound terribly. Oh well. For now, I play a mix of recessed and protruding harps and try to adjust the protruding ones so they don't hurt to play.
----------
Nate
Facebook
Thread Organizer (A list of all sorts of useful threads)
|
boris_plotnikov
943 posts
Mar 22, 2014
11:49 PM
|
Sandwich type harps are more airtight, because construction allows to use hard comb and to flat sand it better. Anyway I like responce of sandwiches, while like comfort of recessed combs. So my main harmonicas are Seydel 1847, most of my spares and practice harmonicas are Session Steel. And I have a different pleasures to play 1847 or sessions.
----------
Excuse my bad English.
My videos.
|
slackwater
32 posts
Mar 23, 2014
3:47 AM
|
This may be interesting to some...or not, but anyway, the first Hohner Pro Harp that I came across, in the second half of the eighties I think, had fully imbedded plates, like a Special Twenty. However, now, and I think since they put them in the MS (Master System) range, the plates are sort of 3/4 imbedded- so it's imbedded in the comb but the front is like sandwiched plastic. The screw down ears on the side of the comb are shorter now too.
The newer Pro Harp plates are MS, they don't fit the comb on the old one, Special Twenty plates are a perfect fit though. In fact the old one is in every dimension, the same as a Special Twenty, right down to the slotted screws and snowflake bolts for the cover plates.
The way I always saw it was (though I never did look too deeply into it) that when they went for the MS thing they made a whole new harp and gave it the Pro Harp's name and they kept making the old harp but changed the stamping on the cover plates, chromed them instead of painting them black, and called it a Special Twenty.
By the way, I've got sandwiched and imbedded, either way's alright by me.
Last Edited by slackwater on Mar 23, 2014 3:48 AM
|
jnorem
122 posts
Mar 23, 2014
1:01 PM
|
Here's a closeup of the corner of the playing area of a Promaster. I think Suzuki should do as nacoran suggested in his excellent post: sand down those edges of the plates so they're perfectly flush with the covers. If they did that, the Promaster would be vastly improved, and could become my harp-of-choice.
I don't know, perhaps I have overly-sensitive lips. I play with a pucker embouchure most of the time, and my lips really start feeling those ridges.
----------
Call me J
Last Edited by jnorem on Mar 23, 2014 1:12 PM
|
SuperBee
1800 posts
Mar 23, 2014
1:47 PM
|
Don't push em in quite so hard, soften yer lips up a little...
Look, I dunno, that just seems to be an explanation for why some folks have this problem, and others, like sonny3 never do. I never do either but I think that's because I tongue block almost all the time. But I was a pucker player for over ten years before I began TB and I never recall a problem with this. Always played MS blues harps back then though, maybe they're easier going? Dunno. Anyway, always seemed to me folks must be pushing the harps pretty hard to hurt their mouth. But I dunno, maybe I'm too glib..
|
florida-trader
438 posts
Mar 24, 2014
9:43 AM
|
The short answer to the OP’s question is, they DON’T HAVE TO.
I could be way off the mark here but I believe that the popularity of the Hohner Marine Band created a number of “default settings” for the Harmonica. I have quite a variety of vintage harps that are not Hohners and virtually all of them except the Seydels have the same size comb and reed plates as the Marine Band. With regard to the positioning of the front edge of the reed plate relative to the tips of the tines on the combs, the Marine Band is slightly recessed. We all know that unsealed pear wood combs tend to expand when exposed to moisture. I think the recessed comb is intentional in order to give the comb room to expand when it is being played. Probably most of us have seen extreme examples of Marine Bands whose tines would expand to the point where they protrude from the harp. These are very uncomfortable to play and gave rise to an entire cottage industry of custom comb making, whether that be to sand and seal the pear wood combs so they don’t swell or simply make substitute combs out of other materials that are inherently resistant to moisture. However, even with models such as the Golden Melody or the ProMaster that jnorem mentioned, the default position of the comb is slightly recessed. Even on the newer Marine Band 1896s with sealed combs and the higher end Marine Band Deluxe, Crossover and Thunderbird, the comb is slightly recessed. Is there a reason for this other than “That’s the way we’ve always done it?” Hard to say.
As mentioned by Michelle, often there is enough wiggle room on a comb to slide the reed plates forward a bit (or the comb back) in order to get the tips of the tines to line up with the edge of the reed plate if that is what you want. If there is not already enough wiggle room it is very easy to drill out the screw holes to a slightly larger diameter which will enable you to do this.
When I got serious about making custom combs I surveyed the landscape to find out what people wanted – recessed, flush or protruding tines. Ultimately I decided to make combs that have tines that are rounded at the tip and which are flush with the front edge of the reed plate. That is my personal preference and I have had favorable comments from my customers about this feature.
Here’s an example. These are Seydel 1847s.
Andrew Zajac has a clever design that offers the opportunity to position the comb seemingly any way you want – recessed, flush or protruding.
I believe that for years, Chris Reynolds’ default design was protruding tines (I think this was also true for Randy Sandoval) but Chris now offers the option of flush or protruding on his website.
So we have lots of options when it comes to this subject whether it be to modify the existing comb or purchase a custom comb from one of the many fine vendors that support this forum.
----------
Tom Halchak
www.BlueMoonHarmonicas.com
Last Edited by florida-trader on Mar 25, 2014 8:23 AM
|
Post a Message
|
