Mirco
136 posts
Mar 12, 2014
8:31 PM
|
Hi, everyone. As a harmonica player who doesn't sing, I'm relegated to instrumentals or accompaniment. Generally, people don't want instrumentals (at least, at my current level of playing).
How do you approach comping and playing fills? Is it the same strategy for soloing, just doing mini-solos of a bar or two at a time?
More importantly, when you are comping, do you generally repeat your fills, or do you change them (change them every line, or change them every chorus)?
Last Edited by Mirco on Mar 12, 2014 8:31 PM
|
GMaj7
375 posts
Mar 12, 2014
9:41 PM
|
That's a really good topic and great question.
Fills are a skill that I really wish I had mastered earlier and now
I struggle with.
Fills should for the most part follow the chord progression. Matching the chord with the arpeggio consistently will put you above most of the players out there. From there, you have to figure out whether to play the major or minor 7th.
This is where players who have actually studied with a teacher stand out above the rest.
I think Mickey Raphael demonstrates it well but guys like Jelly Roll, PT, and Charlie McCoy do too.
In a round about way, Charlie McCoy addresses this topic in his Dave Barrett interview where he talks about his playing on the George Jones hit "He Stopped Loving Her Today"
----------
Greg Jones
16:23 Custom Harmonicas
greg@1623customharmonicas.com
1623customharmonicas.com
|
Mirco
137 posts
Mar 12, 2014
10:58 PM
|
Generally, fills would be used only in bars 3-4, 7-8, and 11-12. When used in 3-4 and 7-8, you're playing the I, so it takes a lot less planning than it would seem, to follow the chords.
|
MP
3123 posts
Mar 13, 2014
10:55 AM
|
Howzit-
Listen, Listen, Listen,
of course change up your comp fills to keep them interesting.
One of the finest, in my opinion THE finest player of harmonica fills was Paul Butterfield.
Check out his work on the two Better Days albums.
It's quite a claim I've made considering SBWII is fantastic at fills and every player in the harp chair with The Great Muddy Waters Band was excellent.
For blues I'd say those two Butterfield recordings.
The complete Jimmy Rogers w/ both Big and Little Walter.
SBWIIs chess recordings. that's enough to start w/ right there.
----------
Affordable Reed Replacement
Marks Harmonica Tune-up
Click user name MP for contact info
Last Edited by MP on Mar 13, 2014 10:58 AM
|
Rick Davis
3070 posts
Mar 13, 2014
11:09 AM
|
When you say "comping and playing fills" do you mean playing when somebody else is singing or soloing?
Don't do it. Especially not if you are a beginner. You'll make a lot more friends that way.
----------
-Little Rick Davis
The Memphis Mini harp amp
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Last Edited by Rick Davis on Mar 14, 2014 8:26 AM
|
atty1chgo
875 posts
Mar 13, 2014
1:03 PM
|
I am spoiled rotten because I get to see him all the time, but I think that Billy Branch does it better than anyone I have ever seen. This video will give you a good example.
And it is NOT a cardinal sin to play when someone is singing or soloing, if you are careful and tasteful. On this clip, Billy plays over Lil' Ed's vocals and guitar playing more than once, as well as Ariyo's piano solo.
** Play in HD for best quality.
)
Last Edited by atty1chgo on Mar 13, 2014 1:12 PM
|
Mirco
138 posts
Mar 13, 2014
3:47 PM
|
Rick Davis, yes. To clarify, comping when others are singing and soloing. Taking fills when there's space in the vocals.
What prompted this thread was a comment from David Barrett, who said that sometimes playing the same fill in bars 3-4 and 7-8 can be a good way to add a theme to a song.
|
Martin
629 posts
Mar 13, 2014
5:25 PM
|
"And it is NOT a cardinal sin to play when someone is singing or soloing, if you are careful and tasteful."
So says "atty1chgo" and of course he´s right, on a very general level: there are no absolute rules.
But Micro appears to be a beginner -- or in his early stages -- and then perhaps it is a good thing NOT to emphasize playing over someone´s vocals.
It´s tough to be careful and tasteful when you´re new to the game and then abstemiousness is a good rule.
|
JustFuya
9 posts
Mar 13, 2014
5:55 PM
|
Are you talking about being on stage with nothing to do? If so I can relate. I'm not a pro, by any stretch, but I've been on stage many times when I felt I could be more productive at the bar than on the stage. I don't do tambourine and my vocals are best left in the shower or whispered.
This may be sacrilegious but in real life, beyond this forum, harp is sparkle. The most appreciative fans of harmonica are players. It's a growing base but diversity will always be the key to mass appeal.
The meat of a good performance is a confluence of individuals having fun and enjoying each others performance. If you don't dance or sing you can maintain the groove by backing away from the microphone. Unless it's an acoustic session, nobody will hear while you stay in the moment.
|
DukeBerryman
232 posts
Mar 13, 2014
6:29 PM
|
Lee Oskar considers himself an accompanist - he's said it's his favorite way to play now. Just trying to make the band sound better.
I keep shaker in my blues box, too. Love the sound:
Eggz
|
slackwater
22 posts
Mar 13, 2014
6:47 PM
|
While someone else is singing I mostly do nothing. Fills, I mostly make like a response as in the call and response sort of thing- the lyric line calls, I respond. While someone else is soloing I'll either just stand around looking good or play along with the bass line- but very quietly and simply. If there's no bass, like a duo, I'll try to do the same line I would if there was a bass, if you know what I mean.
No fixed rules, except one which works for life in general: If you can't say something decent, don't say anything!
P.S. I was once asked, "Why do harp players make good singers?"
Answer, "Because they can't do both at the same time!"
Last Edited by slackwater on Mar 14, 2014 1:56 AM
|
Mirco
139 posts
Mar 13, 2014
8:12 PM
|
I don't mind being on stage with nothing to do. I just want to know how best to contribute. Harmonica players can, I think, double the bass line or play the traditional horn parts without getting too much in the way. I tend, at this point, to play the chord changes repetitively with the backbeat. But I'm looking to do more when the vocals give me the room.
Martin, good point about being careful not to play over vocals. However, I'm probably in the opposite position. For so long, people have been cautioning me against playing too much and too loudly. As a result, I'm probably too timid on stage, to the point where sometimes people have difficulty hearing me at all.
Harmonica players need to be really careful, I know. Actually, it can be really satisfying if you get something rhythmic going with the bass or horn players. We can really contribute to the overall sound, as it sounds like Lee Oskar is saying.
|
SmokeJS
236 posts
Mar 14, 2014
2:48 AM
|
Very good answers to this and related questions, with plenty of examples, can be found in David Barrett's book Blues Harmonica Accompaniment.
Last Edited by SmokeJS on Mar 14, 2014 11:20 AM
|
The Iceman
1519 posts
Mar 14, 2014
7:36 AM
|
My two suggestions:
1. Pretend you are singing along with the singer. When you are singing, you can't play the harmonica. Play harmonica fills when you don't sing.
2. Learn to be comfortable on stage "not playing".
----------
The Iceman
|
Rick Davis
3074 posts
Mar 14, 2014
8:25 AM
|
Iceman nails it.
I see a lot a of harp players at the jam I host at Ziggies in Denver. The thing that gives harp players a bad rep is overplaying. If you step on the vocals or another player's solo they will likely be pissed off.
We cover this at the Blues Jam 101 seminars the Mile High Blues Society presents. "When in doubt, lay out!"
This does not apply to all players. Really good players do this very well. They also get 96 bar solos. I'm talking about well-known pros.
But for beginning players, please.... less is more. Play your 24-bar solos. Keep it simple. Start low and slow on the harp with a simple phrase. Repeat it. On the turnaround build tension by moving higher on the harp. Then step back and don't play. Trust me, people will come up and tell you how great you sounded.
----------
-Little Rick Davis
The Memphis Mini harp amp
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
|
BC
27 posts
Mar 14, 2014
10:32 AM
|
This is great info and experience. I am currently working on fill strategies in David Barrett's LOA program. I have done several jams now and at least knew not to play when a vocalist was singing (and usually when others are soloing), but I felt I had to comp all the time. At the last jam session the leader (a harp player himself) gave me some advice and suggested I not comp that night and only take my solos. So with the exception of two songs (one I did vocal fills), I did just that. Felt weird standing up there not playing that much, but probably something I need to get acclimated to. I am used to playing full instrumentals or duos where I'm playing most of the time. Any thoughts on not feeling like you have to comp throughout the song?
BC
|
Rick Davis
3076 posts
Mar 14, 2014
12:29 PM
|
BC- Step forward when you play your solos, step back when you are finished. This will signal to the audience and other players when they should pay attention to you.
What to do when you are not playing: Look at whoever is soloing, look at people in the audience, and SMILE. React to the music. Move in time to the music, bob your head, stay a part of it. You don't need to dance like a maniac, just move a bit. Don't fiddle with your gear. Don't turn your back on the audience.
Join in at the end of the song for the big rock n roll finish. At the end of the set smile, look happy, compliment your set mates.
----------
-Little Rick Davis
The Memphis Mini harp amp
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
|
BC
28 posts
Mar 14, 2014
2:47 PM
|
Thanks Rick
I don't know about the other musicians at the jam session, but it seems us harp players need to tread more carefully. Those of us who have decided to start the jam scene are certainly looking for advice so we are welcomed when we show up each week.
BC
|
