Billfish89
6 posts
Feb 24, 2014
11:56 PM
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As a relative Beginner with a renewed interest playing, I went and overdid it -- and got a persistent sore throat...
likely from prolonged draw/bending, like 25 minutes of a 40 minute practice. Lip blocking. It is very dry here too.
Saw the old thread on laryngitis here, a harmonica reference to salt water gargle on the Ocarina Network, and a physician post on David Barrett's forum about edema swelling & throat hoarseness. Sounds like it will gradually go away once my throat adjusts to the efforts through practice. Ok, I hope so!
Couple things I am trying:
1. Turn up humidifier in the house
2. Warm salt water gargle - 1 tsp. + 8 oz. water, 3X/day. Immediate relief for a few hours.
3. Rest from harmonica for a solid week, then ease back into it. typical solution for physically overdoing something. This is hard to do!
-what do you do when you're on the DL to not lose ground?
I am listening to tracks, counting through the progressions. Maybe practice beats and time keeping?
-What is a decent practice time? I'll start back slow, 10 min.a day, increase to 15 min. the next week, then 20... but then some of the beginner lessons go for 45 min.
Appreciate the input!
Last Edited by Billfish89 on Feb 24, 2014 11:57 PM
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SuperBee
1706 posts
Feb 25, 2014
12:52 AM
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i had similiar questions after 2 gigs on the weekend wher i had to sing for about 3 hours...noticed i was getting hoarse at the end of the 1st gig, then the next day still croaky, and to make matters worse insufficient monitor and no-one in attendance at the PA for the first three numbers...up on a truck bed stage...the show must go on and all that...but i thought...this must not happen again...i have to pay attention to voice care...thanks for the reminder; i need to do some research
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jbone
1504 posts
Feb 25, 2014
5:23 AM
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You MUST care for your throat and voice. For me it has rarely been an issue about playing harp, but more about voice. I have overdone it many times over 20 years and recovered ok mostly, BUT late last year I had a different feeling in mk throat. I was gigging a lot and was not loud enough in the monitor to hear myself, in fact for a while I was trying to sing through my 12 watt harp rig. My voice needs the opposite of what a harp needs frequency-wise, so this was a bad idea.
I began losing my voice and it would be a day or two before it came back and my throat did not feel bad. I went to a e-e-n-t and she took a look. A polyp had begun on my vocal cord. This is caused by overdoing vocals and can also be from dry conditions etc. A polyp is scar tissue which builds up to protect the rest of the vocal cord. It is not a good thing for a singer.
The answer to this kind of issue, once it reaches that stage, is rest. I have sung almost not at all for 3 months now, and even though I was cleared to start back last week, my first attempts did not go well. Having just got past the flu and a lingering cough, I am really not quite ready yet. Last Saturday we went out to catch some friends playing at a joint, and the combination of cool air and having to talk loudly at our table set me back some. The polyp is gone as of last week but my throat is just not yet ready to get all the way back with it.
I'm a pretty intense singer style wise. Always have been. I have to begin very easy here and I may be visiting a voice specialist as well. I failed for years to do any kind of warmups or exercises and smoked until 2 1/2 years ago. This has taken its toll and I have to wonder if my voice may be changed for good and all after this last adventure. Only time will tell.
If I do everything right here I think I'll be ok. But I look back and wish I had not been so cavalier about my voice for those years, especially the last couple.
I am doing a honey/lemon juice/water rinse as well as warm salt water. It seems to help. I am about to begin a warmup regimen every day or two. I am not going to be singing much without a p.a. for a time as well.
We just have the one voice. If dry air, bad habits, loud singing, whatever, affect it badly, you will be better off changing what needs changing before real damage occurs. Hindsight is 20/20 but it will not undo damage past a point.
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nacoran
7558 posts
Feb 25, 2014
10:03 AM
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Warm tea and rest. As for keeping practice up, try imaginal playing. I know it sounds weird, but there was a study where they took two groups of kids and had them practice basketball. One group practiced every day while the other group alternated practice with thinking about practice- imagining the motions they'd take to take a shot, how they'd spin to avoid a defender... turns out, the second group got better faster.
Of course, it's easier to get distracted when you are just thinking about something rather than doing it, but if you stay focused, it's good practice. You could also sit down and watch Michael Rubin's 'Meat & Potatoes' harmonica music theory videos, or just listen to some great harp playing. There are lots of ways to practice even when you can't actually play. :)
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Nate
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barbequebob
2478 posts
Feb 25, 2014
10:19 AM
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Avoid all tobacco products of any kind, avoid alcohol (and that DOES include beer because of the high salt content which actually makes you thirstier and everything else worse) and drink water with lemon (but NOT lemonade because of the high sugar content) and these are things I learned from a vocal coach.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
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mr_so&so
781 posts
Feb 25, 2014
10:31 AM
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I can remember getting a sore throat a couple of times during my practice, once when working on the deep 2 and 3 hole bends, and once when working on overblows for the first time. I went against all of barbequebob's advice and forced the harp into submission. I succeeded, but paid for it physically. My advice would be to rest it for at least a week. Then understand that you can and should use a subtle exploration process to find your bends and overbends, rather than brute force. When you find them, you will realize that strength is not one of the necessary parameters.
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Mirco
119 posts
Feb 25, 2014
6:39 PM
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As far as not losing ground in your playing...
put your harmonica in your mouth and "play" your normal stuff without actually playing. Imagine the sounds coming out of the harp. You'll be practicing movement and memorization of riffs. If you tongue block, all the better, because it won't be as boring.
Studies in brain research and anecdotal evidence show that visualization is just as effective as actually doing the physical act.
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Billfish89
7 posts
Feb 26, 2014
12:18 AM
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Thanks for the great suggestions, reflections, insights & tips!. I hope your voices are getting healthier.
I am grateful to be busy with work, and get to attend a short conference this week! So, happily focused on other things while I rest.
Honey lemon is great! try honey+butter(or margarine) +lemon juice warmed up like a syrup to soothe a sore throat. Halls Breezers pectin throat drops work great too.
I can play air guitar, so I could do air harp... Seriously, though, visualization training does work.
Maybe Sunday I will try easy practice(10 min.)with lemon water to keep hydrated.
Thanks again!
Last Edited by Billfish89 on Feb 28, 2014 10:27 AM
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jbone
1506 posts
Feb 26, 2014
5:15 AM
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We had a very good session here last night. Not real long but it showed improvement and promise. I may be back to my "old self" soon, minus the bad habits.
Recently I had the flu- who didn't- and that whole time my harps stayed in the case. So it was also a couple of weeks between harp sessions as well. Wife had the flu also and just didn't feel like doing any guitar. But I'd much rather that we are both feeling good when we plug in and fire up the amps and p.a.
It's very important to access the depth of your torso for both harp and vocals, because the strength you develop leads to much better control and dynamics. I had negeected this for a long time and am now convinced that it's time to get back with those exercises.
Between developing the breath power and focus and staying hydrated you should have much less issue with sore throat.
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Billfish89
8 posts
Feb 28, 2014
10:24 AM
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@jbone -thanks for the note on using the depth of the torso as you say. I'm familiar with belly-breathing from mountain biking- use the diaphram/abs area to get the power without tiring your chest& shoulder areas.- a breathing analog of "lift with your legs/hips not your back"?
I have to pay attention to my core for lower back maintenance. Are the core breathing exercises you refered to on youtube or DVD lesson?
Tried "air harp" breathing, while stuck in traffic, but didnt quite feel right. Guess I need the back-pressure of the reeds.
@mr so&so - the subtle exploration of the bending without brute force, yes very good advice. I will need to practice that discipline!
Two more rest days, the throat feels better, and, wouldnt-ya-know, a package arrived containing a low F Seydel. I play mostly SP20s so this is new. Its waiting unopened in a closet...
...start slow, stay hydrated, torso breathing, subtle exploration... i hope I get it.
Bill
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blueswannabe
417 posts
Feb 28, 2014
11:44 PM
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Drink plenty of water. Avoid alcohol and tobacco. Rest. I have had that punching bag thing hanging down at the back of my throat, (Uvula), swell up after a night of gigging and drinking beer. Very scary situation. The only way this got better was drinking plenty of water and resting. Also, I was playing too hard and not letting the amp do the work for me. So turn up the amp and play softer.
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jbone
1509 posts
Mar 01, 2014
5:34 AM
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/05/proper-breathing-technique_n_4214401.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopula
That's one simple one there. Kinda funny it's on HUFFington Post!
I used to have more exercises and have lost them. I took some lessons from a pro voice coach in the 90's but have strayed too far for too long and at this point I am starting from scratch.
I do a saltwater or honey/vinegar/water rinse when my throat is feeling a bit raw.
The first thing we all must realize- or most anyway- is that everyday activity does not access our deep torso. Mountain biking excepted along with other intense exertions. Once the deep breath is established
we want to relax the throat and mouth as much as possible and let the air column have a home there. From the abdomen to the throat and back of the mouth. The throat is of particular importance if you sing. Using the vocal cords without stressing them is vital, or you end up where I was 3 1/2 months ago, at a e-n-t doc with a tube up your nose and down your throat.
The exercises I used to do were designed to limber up the vocal cords. What I remember was a few different series of sounds made, a sort of humming repetition which got the cords ready to sing.
VERY important in the first place is just not trying to make my voice compete with too much volume on a stage. Even over a session or two this will do damage. I jammed with a couple of guys one time that I actually saw mortar dust falling off the wall next to me, and my Bassman cranked as high as possible I still could not hear myself, and I was trying to sing too. I have never got on stage with that kind of volume again. I made a commitment to myself after the last fiasco, that I would do nothing I felt was harmful to my voice any more ever. I'm in a fairly low volume duo with my wife these days and it's THE project. We plan to add rhythm guys this year but it will definitely stay low volume or we'll be looking for different drummer and bassist.
I spent a lot of my younger years not taking care of my voice and hearing. these days my goal is to keep what I have and help it work the best it can. At 59 I have a lot of years of music left in me IF I am CAREFUL.
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Billfish89
9 posts
Mar 02, 2014
11:55 PM
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jbone: thanks, that link is great. The breathing routine is very relaxing and meditative. I could feel the effect when I tried it my easy practice on Sunday - the throat is a still a little scratchy but manageable. It is so important to learn these basic fundamental early on so we build good habits. thanks
for sharing your depth of experiences & I hope that your voice comes back strong like in those cuts on your reverbnation site. You guys have a good groove there!
I will do my best to heed the advice you all have shared here & go easy on throat and the harps!
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jbone
1515 posts
Mar 03, 2014
5:08 AM
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Thank YOU Bill! Jolene and I have a very good thing going.
Our session Saturday was really good, felt much more like the "old days". Since we have 2 inches of frozen sleet everywhere today I am staying home from work, so a new session is in the schedule.
One of the hardest things I have had to do in recent years has been to just not sing for 3 months. There were a couple of times I just HAD to but other than that I concentrated on speaking quietly and just not singing, even in the car etc. I NEVER want to have that issue again.
I firmly believe that if you have something you get good benefit from passing it along. I would hope that when your turn comes you do the same! It has often been the little things that have made the big difference.
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