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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
How and when did you get it?
How and when did you get it?
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MindTheGap
190 posts
Jan 28, 2014
3:05 AM
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How and when did you get it?
This is a question to players who picked up the harp wanting to play it, struggled with it but persevered, and then 'got it'. By 'got it' I mean either playing roughly like they wanted to or getting understanding from others that they could play. I'm talking about making music, and not talking about collection/perfecting techniques.
Did you plug away and it gradually started to work, or did you plug away and then suddenly improve at some point. Are you plugging away and waiting to get it? Was there something different you did or happened to you that made the change? Was it coming out of the woodshed? Or going back into the woodshed?
I'm less interested to hear from naturally talented players who could essentially play (make good music) from the start. However, that might be all the main contributors to this forum. But the teachers may have some stories to tell.
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jbone
1476 posts
Jan 28, 2014
3:52 AM
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For me it has been a long and slow process. Sprinkled with small leaps and large along the way. Early on I found a couple of draw bends and some years later whilst under the influence, a real light clicked on and I "discovered" the I-IV-V and things made a lot more sense.
I was plagued with thin tone for a long time after. I finally surrendered to both being a student, despite my false pride that I was "too old" to be one, and I also began to learn how to breathe properly and use my air column. This was the beginning of good tone for me.
More recently I made a leap into 3rd position, and seriously revisited 1st position as well, and both of these adventures have really broadened my playing immensely.
Working with country, folk, funk, jazz, even metal, not to mention spiritual and gospel, have all broadened my style out in a good way as well. I am a blues player at heart but forays into other genres have made me more rounded.
I have persevered where many probably threw in the towel. Even when it just did not make sense, at worst I'd put the damn things away for a while, and when they began calling softly to me from the closet or drawer, I'd bring them out and try again.
One has to stick with them until the addictive AHA moments begin coming, THAT is when the fun begins!
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sonny3
115 posts
Jan 28, 2014
4:38 AM
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For me , i don't think there was one big a ha moment, but a bunch of little ones along the way.It's been a long process getting things bit by bit and adding up things up along the way.Take your harp with you wherever you go and learn one new thing everyday.The minutes you play will add up.I'm not where I want to be yet but I'm making progress and sticking with it.
Always be learning!
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tookatooka
3608 posts
Jan 28, 2014
4:48 AM
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Yup! I'm with sonny3 on this one. Don't thank anyone will ever "get it" completely.
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DukeBerryman
96 posts
Jan 28, 2014
5:48 AM
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Learning proper scales on the harp. That's when I "got it". Now I want to work on "target scales" like the sax players.
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HarpNinja
3726 posts
Jan 28, 2014
5:56 AM
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"I'm less interested to hear from naturally talented players who could essentially play (make good music) from the start."
This is a horrible assumption to make as I can't think of a single harmonica master that didn't put in thousands of hours.
It took me five years to get decent and five more to feel like I had something going. I probably didn't spend as much time playing as I should have, but I did try to be intentional.
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Mike
My Website
My Harmonica Effects Blog
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MindTheGap
192 posts
Jan 28, 2014
7:09 AM
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HarpNinja - nothing in my question shows disrespect to anyone. And for the avoidance of doubt, none is intended.
It's a matter of fact that it takes thousands of hours of practice to master an instrument. For e.g. a classical violinist the actual number of hours is analysed and known. It's also my experience that some people do have a natural talent that lets them make quick progress right away - and I've experienced this in other areas of life/work/sport too. If you haven't come across this then I'm surprised. However my belief is that talent doesn't define the end point. Again, my experience is that often the people who make early fast progress go on to hard study, I think because it's enjoyable from the start and they get positive feedback. There is a lot to say about that, but that's not the purpose of the question.
In my question I'm talking about a simpler level than mastery. I'm interested in hearing the stories of people who *have* put the effort in, and heard results perhaps later rather than sooner. If you slog away at scales or whatever it might be, does that come good?
And, in case reason for asking this question is not clear, it is for the encouragement of myself and possibly others who are slogging away and wondering if it will come good.
Hope that clarifies things.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Jan 28, 2014 7:23 AM
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HarpNinja
3729 posts
Jan 28, 2014
7:29 AM
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Well, I was trying to make the point that it takes time, and anyone, including yourself, can do great things if you put the time in.
What separates mortals from the gods is a mindset, most the time. Trying to get to the point of playing like your heroes just takes time and good practice. You, and everyone else can do it.
I vividly remember wishing for years to be able to play certain songs. I now find many of those songs easy to play with. I can't believe the difference it how if feels to play, but that is reflecting on ten years of practice.
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Mike
My Website
My Harmonica Effects Blog
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The Iceman
1425 posts
Jan 28, 2014
8:02 AM
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My breakthrough came many years ago when I realized that scales were note choices and not really much different than melodies or improv choices.
I stopped separating my practice time into scales on one side, music on the other. I started to play scales like a melodic line..for instance, adding the 9th scale degree to a major scale and going up and down not attached to a metronome.
Now everything is music...scales just being certain good note choices based on chords being played and the emotional effect one wants to create in choosing a melodic line direction.
It opened up the boundaries in my understanding of what is really going on here.
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The Iceman
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isaacullah
2615 posts
Jan 28, 2014
8:54 AM
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Sounds an awful lot like the debate between gradualism and punctuated equilibrium in evolutionary theory! :)
Actually, as with evolution, I think it's both happening at the same time: longish periods of gradual improvement combined with a few periods of rapid innovation/break throughs. I think this has to do with tipping points and the accumulation of enough technique(s) and skill(s) that let you achieve a break through. The break through seems instantaneous, but really is the product of surpassing a threshold.
In terms of making music, however, that was my goal from the very beginning, and I think I've been able to make music all along. I've just been able to get more complex with it as I've progressed... I get closer and closer to what I hear in my head every day, and now (after about 10 years of owning harmonicas, and 6 years of intense playing), I can pretty much play what I want to...
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YouTube! Soundcloud!
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dougharps
523 posts
Jan 28, 2014
9:40 AM
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Below are my thoughts on this topic. If you disagree, that is OK. It is working for me...
I'm still getting it!
Improvement in my playing came gradually, with faster progress the more I played and added techniques. Also, a better instrument, with practice, can allow new forms of musical expression.
When for quite a few years (almost 20 years!) I seldom played and had poor quality harmonicas, I remained at a plateau. Then when I resumed efforts at improving at making music, the more I played and worked to express musical ideas and phrases (which came from listening to a lot of music of all kinds),the more I was able to express, and the faster the progress.
Progress is not all vertical. You can make progress laterally in different genres before seeing overall progress vertically.
I see it metaphorically as light (music) shining through an opening (technique, instrument, musical thought). The greater your musical thought, technique, and the better the capability of the instrument to support technique, the more "light" that can shine through.
I believe there are many ways to grow musically, not one set prescribed path.
I sometimes use chromatic harmonicas and use positions on diatonic and chromatic to express musical ideas. I am gradually incorporating overblows into my diatonic playing, though not fully chromatically on a diatonic.
I enjoy music in a number of genres, and this gives birth to different ideas in any given genre. I have been told by many musicians who I respect that I have developed a distinctive style. I just have musical ideas and have learned technique to express them.
In my opinion there is no level of finally "getting it". Once you can are able to play music you enjoy with adequate skill and confidence, you are "getting it." You don't have to reach a set level to "get it." It is a process, not a final destination.
The more you improve your technical ability, the more challenging it becomes to decide how to use your ability wisely to make good music. That becomes a matter of your personal musical interest and taste.
Playing with other musicians is important to the process. I enjoy my moments of soloing, but I more greatly enjoy making music in a group, with the group's music becoming greater than the sum of its parts.
I see myself as a musical journeyman, with no illusions of mastery. But I can play competently in several genres, and sometimes with inspiration.
It is important to keep on growing!
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Doug S.
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didjcripey
686 posts
Jan 28, 2014
7:09 PM
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After literally decades of fruitless attempts, I started to get it when I got hold of some good instructional material; namely David Barrett and our own Prof Gussow
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Lucky Lester
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Rick Davis
2922 posts
Jan 28, 2014
7:13 PM
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I was first inspired to play harmonica by a guy I ran into while hitchhiking around the Pacific NW in 1973. He played -- among other things -- a train rhythm that I desperately wanted to "get." It took a couple of years, but I can still remember the moment I saw the light.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Memphis Mini harp amp
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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Jehosaphat
672 posts
Jan 28, 2014
7:41 PM
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To be honest i'd have to say that i still haven't got it totally.
But one of the biggest 'its' was when i realised that the I IV V was (in a sense)just 2nd,1st and third position.Obvious really but something i wished i had cottoned onto years ago
Edit:
5 pints of beer(or whatever your drug is ) does not turn you into Little walter)
Last Edited by Jehosaphat on Jan 28, 2014 9:31 PM
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robbert
263 posts
Jan 28, 2014
7:47 PM
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'Getting it' is relative to what is important to you at the time. What is important tends to shift according to your perception/understanding at any given stage of your journey, musical or otherwise.
I can execute, with feeling, musical ideas/phrases/expression I had not one iota how to produce 13 or 14 yrs ago.
Yes, I value 'progressing' in my art in that I can play with greater subtlety and expression with my band mates than I could 5 yrs ago, or perhaps even 1 yr ago.
Sometimes, it's about performing a good solo, other times it's about performing the appropriate level of accompaniment. Sometimes, it's when to lay out completely. Or using this technique or that technique, or mastering this song or that song...
It's always about listening.
Most of all, I think 'getting it' is about playing every day. Some days I want to quit, some days I'm inspired...all in all, there probably is not a state I haven't been in concerning playing, including being too sick to play...but you pretty much always pick the harp up and play some anyway, work on something, no matter what.
Sometimes you soar, other times you crash...a lot of the time you slog along...but you always keep finding a way to play that damn thing every day.
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JInx
721 posts
Jan 29, 2014
12:34 AM
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if you've been mucking around for a while, and you're still wondering when you are going to "get it", well, you aint never gonna get it. Unless you you bear down to reality and accept your limitations.
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Sun, sun, sun
Burn, burn, burn
Soon, soon, soon
Moon, moon, moon
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jbone
1478 posts
Jan 29, 2014
5:50 AM
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I have to agree with something Ninja said. I'm an example of stubborn perseverance even when it seemed I was just not making progress. And whoever said it just takes the hours going in, of course that's relevant. From the time I first heard Sonny Terry, Walter, and Wolf, until I could do much of anything remotely like any of them, was a long time and a lot of hours, frankly some of that time spent not doing much besides finding out what all I could make the harp do.
I want to encourage the newer players- and maybe older ones who are getting slow results- to carry on. If you are not sure you will make progress or "get it" in a reasonable time, why not just relax, do some listening, do some noodling, scales, whatever, and keep going? I had to change my focus a few times and sort of broaden out. I just never gave up for long.
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MindTheGap
194 posts
Jan 29, 2014
7:09 AM
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Thank you for all these thoughts. What you have written is extremely valuable - condensing often years of practical experience. It's also interesting in it's own right to read these stories. Extracting some nuggets I particularly like...
- Looking to breadth as well as depth
- Scales (needs some more thought)
- Playing music with others
- I-IV-V = 2,1,3 position
- Stick at it, play every day (or don't give up for long)
Jlnx - maybe you are right too, but seems like the mucking about period could be many years.
I particularly like isaacullah's idea, aiming to make music from the start. Over time, add complexity and sophistication. I was thinking about this when I was playing with my group last night - simple stuff but the groove was simmering along and everyone was smiling, everyone was enjoying. I thought, this is just great.
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Slimharp
154 posts
Jan 29, 2014
7:40 AM
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It started to click in 67 when I found the right key for the song I was practicing. Mind you there were not harp teachers then, few people playin harp as a lead instrument, everybody was playing guitar. I didnt know about positions. I had been playing about a year and could never figure out why I always sounded off. I had clean one hole blow and draw down and a bend or two. I was practicing the " Work Song " by PBBB and picked up a C. It worked. I would say it gave me inspiration to continue rather than really " Get it ". I had zero help then. A few months later ( 1968 ) I found a cross harp chart in a Mel Bay chord book for blues guitar. I thought I had died and gone to heaven. I bought a pitch pipe to find the key then really took off. Prior to this I had thrown down and stomped several MB's out of frustration. Knowing I had the " Work Song " down kept me going. Within 6 months of finding the 2nd position chart I was really getting it. I played till the corners of my mouth were raw.
Last Edited by Slimharp on Jan 29, 2014 7:52 AM
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jbone
1479 posts
Jan 29, 2014
11:22 AM
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The simple truth of a chord progression and the opportunity to voice an improvisation through it with a harp has to be one of THE simple pleasures I have come to love most. With very little skill or knowledge you can find some pleasing notes and be at least somewhat fulfilled. Later on complexity can be layered in a bit at a time as we learn deeper details.
I had a couple of neighborhood kids ask me to teach them to play a couple of years ago. I tried. Every time I thought I had it down really simple for them they'd ask questions that made me pause and realize. I know more than I was aware. When I am thinking I just did one move to get one note it is pointed out to me that it actually took 4 moves. Those kids lost interest, but their replacement was waiting in the wings. My wife of all people is on the path! I have her a small kit of harps with a few more to buy yet. She's more in the Dylan camp so far but who am I to complain? How often do you hear of two people in the same family playing harp, let alone lovers and spouses?
Slim, I remember when the only book available was the one by Tony Glover. I got one and quickly realized I was just too stoned to decipher his very simple tabulature. Many years later and thanks to the internet- and sobriety-, I ran across the circle of 5ths chart, and this was a nice quick easy reference to what key and what harp.
I remember all too well, people asking me to blow an E on a harp so they could tune a guitar. and tuning forks. Way before digital tuners!
Jolene and I do mostly fairly simple songs in the I-IV-V. It is very much about the groove she puts down on guitar and then putting just the right amount of mojo in on vocals and harp.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wa7La7yYYeE
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bloozefish
147 posts
Jan 29, 2014
2:08 PM
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Slimharp,
your story of your early days could have been mine, trying to find a note or two that would work. It was HUGE when I found out about 2nd position harp charts. I knew a lot of guitarists who could do 12-bar blues progressions; now I could grab the right harp and wail.
Thing is, there have been many "I get it" moments since. I didn't learn to tongue-block for many years, and it's now my favorite approach. I just couldn't "get" 3rd position.....until I did, pretty recently. Now I love 3rd. I hope I still continue to "get it" in little ways. The only way to eat an entire elephant is one bite at a time.
james
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Slimharp
156 posts
Jan 30, 2014
8:00 AM
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James, seems you and I are pretty much on the same page. I didnt start tongue blocking till about ten years ago. I play some third and it is getting better and better.
Back in the late 60's most of the blues harp jargon and styles were unheard of for this white blues lover in So. California. You had to figure it out on your own. It took a while but it was worth it.
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