HawkeyeKane
2262 posts
Jan 13, 2014
10:52 AM
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So my band has a pretty big show coming up in St. Louis at the end of the month. This is our first gig at a major metropolitan club, and we're planning ahead for our best possible delivery. Most of my prep is already sorted out, but I'm kinda stumped on my amp selection.
To the best of our knowledge, the joint doesn't have any house amps to provide, so it's a BYOA deal. My usual rig (Zoo 2 & Alamo Fury) would probably work, but I'd like to see if I can't borrow something to bring a little more to the table. Here are my options to date:
Fender Blues Jr. 2nd Gen w/ C-Rex (played it Saturday night and liked it for the most part)
Ampeg J-20 Jet
Fender Deluxe Reverb reissue
Fender Blues Deluxe
Other possibilities unconfirmed as of yet:
Gretsch 6149 (used this many times successfully, but it's a bit limited in the tone dept)
Lectrolab R500 (good harp amp, but only 15W)
'59 Bassman LTD (not holding my breath, but the request is under advisement)
As far as I know, the Blues Deluxe is already coming along for sure as a backup amp for either guitar or harp in the event of an amp failure. My Zoo will probably make the trip as well for good measure.
So....anyone have a recommendation out of one these over the others? Any good tricks you know of for the best harp tone out of one or more of them? Looking for advice here.
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Hawkeye Kane
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Frank
3689 posts
Jan 13, 2014
11:21 AM
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Use these ones Hawk - Fender Deluxe Reverb reissue and the Fender Blues Deluxe connected, just keep em under the feedback threshold and rock & roll brother :)
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HarpNinja
3685 posts
Jan 13, 2014
11:25 AM
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How is the sound there? Do they have monitors? How is the sound guy? Does he regularly work with harmonica players? How big is the club? How many people will be there?
IME, bringing big amps to a big stage can actually be a bad thing. Everyone turns up, the stage volume suffers, so the FOH sound suffers, so you end up with things like feedback.
I've found that if everyone keeps their regular stage volume and uses a bit of the monitors, everyone is a winner.
What you DON'T want happening, though, is having the sound guy screw you over and not be able to hear yourself on stage.
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Mike
My Website
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Rick Davis
2856 posts
Jan 13, 2014
11:52 AM
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Bassman.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Memphis Mini harp amp
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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HawkeyeKane
2263 posts
Jan 13, 2014
12:10 PM
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@Mike
We're kinda flying into this one blind. We really don't know what the sound guy is gonna be like or if he's harp-friendly. From the few pictures I've found online of other acts playing at this particular club, monitors are indeed present. The stage looks to be about 40 by 15 feet in the pictures. I'm not sure as to the size of the audience floor. Our bandleader made a trip down there a while back to hash out details and get a look at the place, but I've not heard much as to the characteristics of the venue itself. My estimate: hope for the best, plan for the worst, ie- make sure my rig will let me hear myself onstage.
@Rick
Ideally, yes. Though I can say it's probably not what you're thinking. It's an LTD if that tells you anything, and not a 90's RI.
I'm trying to get as much info as I can on the joint to make the best decision possible, but there are certain protocols I don't feel comfortable breaching in terms of contacting the place outright.
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Hawkeye Kane
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Rick Davis
2858 posts
Jan 13, 2014
12:18 PM
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Tim, you already know the most important thing, which is your band's stage volume. It's not like you are walking into the gig blind.
By far, most of the sound techs I've worked with have been fine, with one or two notable exceptions. You say this is a major urban club... the chances that the sound guy is competent are good. I don't think you need to worry too much.
You could find bands that have played the room in the past and ask them about it.
Do you know how many people the room seats?
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-Little Rick Davis
The Memphis Mini harp amp
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Last Edited by Rick Davis on Jan 13, 2014 12:19 PM
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Harpwood
11 posts
Jan 13, 2014
12:35 PM
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The Deluxe Reverb is not bad at all. Our guitarist has one and I tried it once without any mods except the Weber speaker Upgrade it came with. I would gig with it, no worries at all. Maybe bring a 12AY7, if you have a spare one. But even without one you will have a pretty decent sound.
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HawkeyeKane
2264 posts
Jan 13, 2014
12:44 PM
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@Rick
Well, again, without much in the way of photos or contacts of bands who've played there, it's a little difficult. What I do know is that the club takes up at least two or three units of a large strip mall, and that they take seating reservations up through 8:30 in the evening. So at a guess, the room holds a couple hundred, maybe more. No idea how loud the crowd can get or what the ceiling or floor materials might be for the resonance factor. And as to my band's stage volume, it's fairly easy to get a bead each other in places we've played before and are used to. But terra incognita rooms often present a problem. Course we're usually running our own sound from the stage, which won't be the case here.
@Harpwood
I'll keep that in mind. I'm leaning more towards the DRRI over the Blues Deluxe. Master Volume amps are a pain in the ass for me.
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Hawkeye Kane
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Frank
3690 posts
Jan 13, 2014
12:54 PM
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DRRI and Blues Deluxe - run these parallel keep the DRRI' volume lower then BD you'll do fine :)
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HawkeyeKane
2265 posts
Jan 13, 2014
12:58 PM
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@Frank
What kind of settings work best on a BD? I once tried out a Blues Deville and that sucker fed back like crazy. Obviously, keep away from the drive channel and keep the bright switch off. Aside from that?
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Hawkeye Kane
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walterharp
1277 posts
Jan 13, 2014
1:09 PM
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I would suggest just running with your normal rig. You are most comfortable with that, get them to mic the best sounding of your amps and be sure it is up pointing at the back of your head. If you need a touch in your monitor, ask. Tell the sound guy you like the bass up a little, mids rolled off a bit and treble straight up, but whatever he thinks sounds best, go with it. (that will sent the signal you trust him).
I think going into one of your biggest gigs with equipment you are not very used to could be a big mistake. If they have a PA for bands, they will have one more vocal mic to throw at it.
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Kingley
3389 posts
Jan 13, 2014
1:13 PM
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Is the Blues Deluxe you're talking about the 1990's version?
If so I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. The 5E3 Deluxe is a great amp for harp, the 1990's Blues Deluxe is a horrible amp for harp in my opinion.
Walterharps comment makes a lot of sense and I agree with him. If you're bent on using a different rig though and you can't get the Bassman then I'd say the Ampeg is probably the next best bet. The Bassman LTD is a good amp for harp. Just stick a 12AY7 in V1 and you're good to go.
Last Edited by Kingley on Jan 13, 2014 1:15 PM
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Frank
3691 posts
Jan 13, 2014
1:22 PM
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Set it so you can honk with no feedback wanting to steal the limelight-
Start with everything on zero..,see how far you can go on just the volume till feedback -
go back a few notches and play with a tight cup and then a loose cup - check for feedback...
If things are good,,, pick a tone knob to your liking...lets say "treble" see how high you can go with that knob till feedback - if it doesn't feedback and you like the tone keep it - if it does begin to feedback at a certain spot back off till its gone and again play with a tight cup then a loose one see the results...
Do this with all the tone controls and you should find a nice sound...
And I agree, this venue sounds like your sound man will do right by you guys - :)
Last Edited by Frank on Jan 13, 2014 1:23 PM
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Rick Davis
2860 posts
Jan 13, 2014
1:23 PM
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If no Bassman, then I agree with Walter: roll with your regular rig. Trust the sound guy to know what he is doing.
This article might be helpful, written by a local pro
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-Little Rick Davis
The Memphis Mini harp amp
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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HawkeyeKane
2266 posts
Jan 13, 2014
1:25 PM
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@Kingley
Yes, the 90's amp reissue, not the 5E3. The Lectrolab R500 I mentioned is nearly identical to a 5E3 except for its phase inverter. I like the amp, but it's a little finicky on its tone control and won't help me on the stage volume detail as well.
As for the Blues Deluxe being a horrible harp amp, how do you figure? Kim Wilson uses a pair of DeVilles on a regular basis, which if I'm not mistaken, is the same basic circuitry with a higher output.
What shies me away from my usual rig is that at a rough total of about 20 to 25 watts, I can't always hear myself onstage with a 500W bass amp, 80W modeling amp pumped heavy in the monitors, 40W Bandmaster, and Bose tower PA for the electronic drum kit. It carries me in a lot of smaller intimate venues, but outdoors and in larger halls, it's much harder to compete. Usually I run my mic and effects into the Zoo, line the Zoo into an active DI box, send the link line from the DI to the Alamo, and the XLR output to the board. The Alamo then serves as my harp monitor to avoid feedback in the stage monitors.
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Hawkeye Kane
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Kingley
3390 posts
Jan 13, 2014
1:33 PM
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Just because amps share similar circuitry doesn't make them the same. The Deville is a totally different beast to the 90's Deluxe.
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LSC
573 posts
Jan 13, 2014
1:34 PM
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My two cents worth. If you can get the Bassman LTD go for it and drop an 12ay7 in V1 as Kingley suggests. It's better to have too much amp than too little. This is the most common solution for touring pros who have to rely on amps provided by the promoter. They will often specify in the rider and carry the tube themselves. Just don't forget to swap it back post gig.
I wouldn't worry at all about dialing it in. It's pretty straight forward. Just give yourself a little extra sound check time.
Failing a Bassman, go with the rig you normally use but do get it up on a chair or some such. Pointed at your head could cause feedback problems as that is where your mic is. On the ground blows the sound past your ankles. The PA guy will get you a sound out front and will mic any amp you use anyway. I would also agree that if it is a major club of any description the sound guy will be well versed in just about everything. If you do use your own rig, again be sure of stage levels and take the time to sort yourselves out at sound check. There will be an inclination for guitar players in particular to whack it up because of the size of stage and room. Also, don't spread out because you think you need to fill the space. The closer together you are the easier it is to hear what everyone is doing without playing too loud.
Basically my friend, don't over think things or get all het up about what amp is right. Stay together with your bandmates, do what you do, and have fun. That's what got you the gig in the first place.
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LSC
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LSC
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harpwrench
753 posts
Jan 13, 2014
1:42 PM
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I don't want to sound like a smartass, but why are you gigging with practice amps? You need to own a Bassman, unless your normal gigs are nursing homes and libraries JMHO!
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HawkeyeKane
2267 posts
Jan 13, 2014
1:53 PM
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Pretty sure the LTD probably already has an AY7 in V1, might be a 5751 though. Belongs to another local harp player and also has Lil Buddies in the basement of it.
LSC, I normally mount the Zoo up in an amp stand and place the Alamo on its side directly underneath. I know aiming an amp at an upward angle can lead to feedback, but with the low output of the Zoo, is that really such a hazard? Lately I've been using the low gain input on the Zoo as well. Been getting some more tasty tone that way.
It's just kinda frustrating that I always have to lug both amps around to comprise my usual rig, one of which weighs nearly as much as a Bassman in and of itself. I'll take all points into consideration though.
And Joe...believe you me, nothing would please me more than to have every conceivable gig covered and own my own Bassman or comparable amp. Unfortunately, this playing harp as a second occupation is really just helping to make ends meet at my house. And until my situation changes to a position where I'm able to save up for even a used one, my best plan of attack is to work with what I have to get the best results attainable....JMHO.
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Hawkeye Kane
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harpwrench
754 posts
Jan 13, 2014
2:05 PM
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Understood, carry on!
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harpwrench
755 posts
Jan 13, 2014
2:08 PM
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And FWIW I'd go with the Deluxe Reverb, have played through one sitting in and it really surprised me.
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HawkeyeKane
2268 posts
Jan 13, 2014
2:15 PM
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Thanks. Yeah, I've tried one out too and really liked the sound. Were the channels bridged on the one you played on?
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Hawkeye Kane
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harpwrench
756 posts
Jan 13, 2014
2:43 PM
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Nope just plugged in the guitar player's spare amp, bone stock, and twisted the knobs.
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Frank
3692 posts
Jan 13, 2014
2:45 PM
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Find some non-feedback tone and let the sound guy do his magic :)
Last Edited by Frank on Jan 13, 2014 2:55 PM
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Rick Davis
2861 posts
Jan 13, 2014
3:33 PM
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The House of Rock in St Louis? The comments on their YELP page are interesting.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Memphis Mini harp amp
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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Barley Nectar
242 posts
Jan 13, 2014
4:25 PM
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Hmm,I went thru the same sinareo when I did that cassino show with Smokin Section. Big club stage with pro players and a arrogant pro sound man. Totally forigen. I have several large amps but I chose the Lectrolab R500c. Why, The amp sounds killer, I wanted to keep the stage volume down, I knew it would be miced, and the thing looks great! This was a 20 yr band reunion gig with all the past members present. A pro jam of sorts. People out front said my sound was good. Not until the very last song was I challenged by stage volume...
Tim, your into this harp thing, go buy a real amp! JMO...BN
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Rick Davis
2863 posts
Jan 13, 2014
5:56 PM
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Tim, there is a club here in the Denver area that is similar in some ways to the House of Rock: It is a big club in a strip mall, seats about 200 people with standing room for many more. It has a big stage and lights and sound system and a very good sound tech.
The place is called The Toad Tavern. Acts I've seen there include Kim Wilson, Rick Estrin & The Nightcats, Jason Ricci, The Nighthawks, and others, and I've played there with my band several times.
When I saw big name players there they all used big amps and everything was mic'ed up. Most of the times I've played there I used my 35-watt Mission 32-20 amp. Once I used the Mission amp with my Masco ME-18. Other times I used my Bassman. Some of the gigs were "festivals" with the place absolutely packed, and others were weekend gigs with half as many people. Again, everything was always mic'ed up.
I was happy with my harp sound every time. Just make sure you get enough in the monitors during sound check and you will be fine. A club that runs as much music as The Toad Tavern (or The House Of Rock) is likely to have a good sound guy and great PA gear.
You're stressing too much. Take your familiar regular rig so there will be no surprises, pay attention during sound check, and it will all be a blast.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Memphis Mini harp amp
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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walterharp
1279 posts
Jan 13, 2014
6:59 PM
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looks from the photos like they are micing the drums in that club... which means even a bassman will not really project to the audience without PA reinforcement.
and don't let those ladies in the hot pants play your harmonica!
i forgot to mention in my previous post, another reason to use gear you are familiar with, if they have a light show set up, there is no guarantee you will be able to see your knobs on your amp well (or the labels at least), then when the sound guy tells you to turn up or down, or you try to get more cut with a little treble boost, it is pretty hard to do if you do not know your equipment pretty well.
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harpoon_man
40 posts
Jan 13, 2014
8:20 PM
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Hawkeye: I'm in the STL area and know a lot of the local harp players...might be able to help you out. Drop me a line at harpoon_man(at sign)hotmail.com.
-Rusty
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HawkeyeKane
2269 posts
Jan 14, 2014
7:14 AM
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@walter
On the mic'ed drums, I'm not yet sure if our drummer will be playing any kind of house kit. I'm not even sure that the establishment has a house kit. He'll most likely be playing his usual electronic kit, which is entirely dialable. That kit of his has its pros and cons, but in the year he's been playing with us now, we've all gotten used to it. I don't foresee the drums being a major problem at this point in time. I do see your point about being able to see amp knobs in the darkness. I had that very issue this past weekend when playing the Blues Jr. I adapted quickly, but it was still a pause moment.
Rusty, sent you an email.
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Hawkeye Kane
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Slimharp
96 posts
Jan 14, 2014
8:05 AM
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Hawkeye, I agree with Walter and Joe. Never make major changes before a gig. Roll with what you got or get familiar with the Bassman and go with that. Keep it simple. Always nice to have some sort of AFB on hand. Different rooms different dynamics.
I have used many different amps over the years, Gibson GA - 45, Blues Deville, Hot Rods, Jr's, Deluxe's,Quilter, Ampegs,Vintage amps, Harp Kings,Harp Gear, all of which were good amps. IMHO the best overall amp, best tone and volume for its size is a Bassman. I fought it for years, didnt want to be like most harp players here on the west coast. After 15 years of screwing around I got an early model Bassman RI, changed a few things and its the best for the money. Harp Kings are outstanding but high dollar and hard to come by. Bassman. Do yourself a favor, save your shekels and get one.
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Greg Heumann
2560 posts
Jan 14, 2014
9:13 AM
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Play what you're most comfortable with! Play what you KNOW. You want to make a good impression? You'll fail if you're constantly diddling with an amp you don't know. Let the sound guy handle getting the sound out front.
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***************************************************
/Greg
BlowsMeAway Productions
See my Customer Mics album on Facebook
BlueState - my band
Bluestate on iTunes
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Rick Davis
2866 posts
Jan 14, 2014
11:33 AM
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Harp amp lineup at The Toad Tavern for a Little Walter Tribute show. My Bassman is on the left.
Wanna know which amp sounded best that night? I thought it was the vintage Gibson on the right.
Greg is giving you pro advice. Go with your regular rig. Nothing distracts from your show like frequent diddling with your gear.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Memphis Mini harp amp
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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Mojokane
747 posts
Jan 14, 2014
12:02 PM
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like Greg says..
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Why is it that we all just can't get along?<
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HawkeyeKane
2270 posts
Jan 14, 2014
1:50 PM
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After much thought on this, I've come up with a rough game plan. I mulled it over, and you fellas are right. I should use gear I'm familiar with that gets me good results. So my planned rig involves one or more of the following two amps:
- My Zoo 2
- And the Gretsch 6149
Both of these amps, I'm thoroughly familiar with and have used extensively at shows. The Zoo is like my sidearm. And the Gretsch I know the in's and out's of because aside from playing it, I also helped rebuild and restore it.
There are a few different ways I can go about this. First three are pretty typical ways for me.
1.) Mic->Preamp->reverb pedal->Zoo->DI box->Gretsch/PA
2.) Mic->Preamp->reverb pedal->Zoo->Gretsch mic'd
3.) Mic->Preamp->EQ pedal->reverb pedal->Gretsch mic'd
The last way is the one I'm iffy about and only testing it will tell the tale. The 6149 serves not only as a standalone amp, but can also serve as an outboard reverberated speaker cab like the new Fender Vaporizer. And I recently built a head cabinet to swap my Zoo chassis from combo to head. So...
4.) Mic->Preamp->Zoo in head cab->Gretsch in cabinet mode and mic'd.
Some experimenting will have to be done. But I'll reiterate, I'm intimately familiar with these amps and believe a good combination that'll bring forth good results can be reached with them.
I'll keep you posted on how the tests develop. Should lend itself as an element of fun in preparation for this show.
Many thanks to all who've chimed in. And if you have additional comments, keep em comin'.
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Hawkeye Kane
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Slimharp
104 posts
Jan 14, 2014
3:28 PM
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Keep it simple.
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Rick Davis
2868 posts
Jan 14, 2014
8:37 PM
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Simpler is better.
Here's what I would do if all I had was your list of gear:
I'd use the Kalamazoo amp. That's it.
No preamp, no pedals. Mic it up or line it out. Done.
Kinda like this... It sounded awesome all night at a lively blues jam.
The black cable you see behind the amp is from the line out to the mixer.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Memphis Mini harp amp
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Last Edited by Rick Davis on Jan 14, 2014 8:46 PM
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cliffy
71 posts
Jan 14, 2014
9:04 PM
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Hi Tim, it is clear to all here that you spend way too much time thinking about amps! :)
NEVER go to a big gig with a rig you don't know inside and out and have lots of experience using. The only thing that can happen if you start playing with things you're unfamiliar with is that you will screw up the gig and look like an ass.
Don't forget that being unsure about your equipment will also change the quality of your playing.
If you just can't leave well enough alone, you can bring your Kalamazoo and line that into the Bassman. Then the Bassman is just making you louder and coloring the sound only a little, most of your tone is coming from the Kalamazoo.
Don't be a "gear fidget" and change something just to change something. Your Kalamazoo probably sounds pretty good as it is.
An Olympic marathoner would never use a brand new untested pair of running sneakers during the big race. He's using the ones he knows well.
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Slimharp
108 posts
Jan 15, 2014
7:43 AM
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Take one of your favorites, set it up on a chair or milk crate - line out or mic it, get a level and forget it. As mentioned through a lot of threads, if your worried about your gear you wont be fully present for your playing. Remember rooms change sound. Play your favorite mic and just play. What you hear is not necessarily what the audience will hear. A good part of the audience wont know the difference anyway.
I have read that at times Little Walter would go to a gig, big and small and use whatever the house had, sometimes including mics. He just played his ass off. Some of the best stuff you ever heard in your life came out of cats the werent too concerned about what kinda gear they were using as long as you could hear it. They just played.
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HawkeyeKane
2271 posts
Jan 15, 2014
9:09 AM
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Whoa, okay guys, wait a second here...
Rick, on one hand, yes, you're probably right that the Zoo would provide me with the tone I need and get myself heard in the front when it's properly mic'd or lined. No argument there. But at 5W, the only way I'll be able to hear myself onstage is if the sound guy also runs it into the stage monitors. And as we all know, that can be a major feedback hazard. I haven't used my Zoo by itself at a gig for well over a year now for that very reason. I know the Mini's fast growing and well-deserved reputation for its solo delivery at your weekly jam, but the dynamic of your jam and the dynamic of my band in terms of rig volumes is probably very different. For this reason, I run the split line out from the DI box, crank the Zoo's volume to get the tone and distortion I want, and activate a 20dB cut on the DI to prevent too much signal from overruning the PA channel. The second amp serves as my onstage monitor that I can adjust to hear myself without risk of feedback.
Cliffy....okay, you got me. Guilty as charged. I'm an amplifier fanatic. They fascinate me and thrill me at the same time. It's what I love, and it's a lot of the reason I plan to get my electrical engineering degree as soon as my wife is finished up with her degree. As to using an unfamiliar rig, I explicitly stated earlier that I know both these amps inside and out and have used them extensively. The experimentation was mainly theoretical, and after toying around last night, the fourth possibility I mentioned of running the Gretsch as a verb cab is pretty much out. It's not what I thought it'd be and presents too much of an unmanageable risk. The Bassman is also off the table, FYI. The Zoo will be first in line for its tone and tremolo, then to the DI split between the Gretsch and the PA. I may yet add an EQ pedal to the rig and experiment with it in the days leading up to the gig, but if I can't work it in successfully, then it won't make the cut for the final rig.
I'm not gonna lie here, I feel a smidge disconcerted by some of this. I know that wasn't anyone's intention, but come on guys. I know I haven't been at this game nearly as long as some of you folks, but I've picked up a ton of experience in the last five years. I've done a lot of homework and put theories to the test with both proving and disproving results. I'm not out to change anything just for the sake of changing it. I'm out to experiment to see if I can come up with an improvement or enhancement that I feel comfortable with using at a gig. True, the old addage of "if it ain't broke, don't try to fix it" applies to a lot of these situations, but it never hurts to experiment with something you can include or disclude at a moment's notice. That's just my nature in all things, but I always leave a backdoor open should the need to back out arise.
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Hawkeye Kane
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Rick Davis
2875 posts
Jan 15, 2014
11:11 AM
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Tim, we are talking about a gig in a big club with a pro sound tech and pro sound system. They will have anti-feedback applications in their monitor system. The sound guy has seen it all before, and he will clean it up in the monitors. That is what sound check is for. This ain't like playing a small club with a speaker-on-a-stick PA system and the guitar player twisting the knobs.
That is why I suggest keeping it simple and using the Kalamazoo amp. The K-zoo amps have very nice tone. I can't see any reason in this scenario to get all complex with your rig.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Memphis Mini harp amp
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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6SN7
411 posts
Jan 15, 2014
11:49 AM
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Simple and reliable, plug and play, that's the way to go.
Have fun!
Last Edited by 6SN7 on Jan 15, 2014 11:49 AM
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timeistight
1481 posts
Jan 15, 2014
1:12 PM
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Are the rest of the band using their regular amps?
Last October I saw James Cotton at an outdoor blues fest. His band had big amps -- the guitar had a Fender Twin and the bass ha a big Ampeg stack -- while Cotton's harp mic went straight into the PA.
Back in the park everything sounded great. However, close to the stage, the harp wasn't loud enough. Cotton also seemed to have trouble getting enough monitor volume without feedback.
Moral of the story? If your bandmates insist on powering up, you might want to power up too.
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HawkeyeKane
2272 posts
Jan 15, 2014
2:22 PM
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Rick, I too have played big club and event gigs before with some of the best sound techs in the state. Even they had problems keeping my rig from feeding back in the monitors, the most recent occurence was about a month ago. Yes, the majority of the gigs I play are in small clubs with us running our own PA, but I've played many higher profile gigs where a pro was running us on his banks. It's not like this route is anything out of the norm for me. I'm just using the Gretsch instead of my Alamo as my monitor slave, and pretty much all the tone is being generated by the Zoo.
@timeistight
Yes, they'll all be using their regular amps. The only one who likes to turn up a bit is the lead guitarist (shocker, I know), and he really only does it for tonality reasons with his Bandmaster. He's a volume conscious guy and actually wants to be able to hear my harp, which is more than can be said for a lot of guitarists out there. The bigger variable with him is whether he's playing his Strat or his Les Paul, because the LP is so much hotter. In terms of "powering up" as you put it, that's why I slave a second amp so I can hear myself, but not necessarily make myself louder out in the mains.
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Hawkeye Kane
Last Edited by HawkeyeKane on Jan 15, 2014 2:24 PM
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Rick Davis
2876 posts
Jan 15, 2014
2:58 PM
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Tim, Wow, that's odd. At bigger clubs I've played, like The Toad Tavern, the sound guys are able to give me a nice signal in the monitors if I want it.
So far at the jam at Ziggies I have had zero problems with feedback in the monitors when using the Memphis Mini amp lined out to the PA. This summer I plan to use the MM amp at some outdoor festivals. One little 5-watt 18-pound amp, a mic, and a cable. Should be fun.
No matter what rig you choose for the gig, I wish you luck. Have a great time.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Memphis Mini harp amp
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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walterharp
1285 posts
Jan 15, 2014
5:35 PM
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Having signal in the monitor does require a little more attention to mic placement for sure, just like you don't get an open mic right near your amp, you don't get it real near the monitor either, and more gain overall gives more chance for feedback. One thing is if the sound person thinks everyone on stage wants a bunch of everything in the monitors, it can get pretty loud. I have had to ask the sound guys to lower overall volumes at times as well. Hawkeye mentioned electronic drums so that all comes back through the monitors, as well as vocals.
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Rick Davis
2914 posts
Jan 26, 2014
7:18 AM
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So Tim...
How did the gig go at House of Rock in STL? What rig did you end up using?
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-Little Rick Davis
The Memphis Mini harp amp
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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HawkeyeKane
2279 posts
Jan 27, 2014
7:42 AM
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Sorry I didn't respond sooner. Spent most of yesterday trying to recover.
The show went very well! The crowd was very energetic and responsive. The sound guy was on his game and very thorough getting everything set through the PA.
As for my rig...I started having a couple issues with the Kalamazoo when I got there. For some reason in that room, it sounded very thin and reedy, and just wasn't delivering what I wanted. So I had a backup plan ready that I'd been working with for the last week or so. I took the Zoo out of the equation, and ran straight to the Gretsch. My EV 630, into ART Tube MP, to Dano Corned Beef pedal, to Dano Fish & Chips EQ pedal, to the Gretsch.
I swapped out the first preamp 12AX7 for a 5751 which tamed the gain a little bit. I set the EQ pedal level accordingly, and dialed in a good deep fattened tone for when it was active, and the preamp and amplifier levels for a brighter tone when the EQ was shut off. Both settings gave me the results I needed throughout the show.
My only regret with this rig was in the area of the Gretsch's attainable output. Last week I tested the 6973 power tubes on it, and they only read at about half efficiency. So I ordered a couple new EHX 6973's from TubeDepot. But when the package arrived Thursday and I opened it up, I discovered they'd sent me EHX 7868's by mistake (grrrrrr...), so I had to make do with the originals since they couldn't get the correct ones to me in time for the gig.
But all in all, the rig was satisfactory, the show was fun and fulfilling, and we're booked for four more appearances at the venue later on through this year. It was a good break-in for my band getting into St. Louis. :-)
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Hawkeye Kane
Last Edited by HawkeyeKane on Jan 27, 2014 7:44 AM
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Slimharp
149 posts
Jan 27, 2014
9:12 AM
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Glad the gig turned out well and you all got re-booked.
Not to sound like a hard ass, but if you are doing bigger gigs I would save up for a Bassman. They arent the only larger amp around but for the money they are excellent. It seems you had to do a lot of work to get things right. With your know how you could make a Bassman honk and scream. A re-issue can be had anywhere from $500.00 to $800.00 or cheaper if you get lucky.
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HawkeyeKane
2281 posts
Jan 27, 2014
9:36 AM
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@Slimharp
Yeah...I'm hoping this year proves to be a good one on the takehome and I can either buy a used Bassman RI, or maybe build a decent kit. A local amp tech made some pretty nice mods to my buddy's LTD not long ago, so I may consult with him.
BTW, we did have video rolling at the gig, so as soon as that gets processed, I'll try and get some footage posted.
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Hawkeye Kane
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