MindTheGap
129 posts
Dec 22, 2013
3:18 AM
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I've watched any number of harp demos, and when people are demonstrating their skills it's usually full-bore, big volume sound with a ton volume of deep vibrato that is favoured - 'look I really OWN this thing'. I often read here about someone being praised for their big phat tone. And yet people also say that some of the greats played gently. Are there people playing gently, expressively, acoustically?
This is one of my favourites numbers because Junior Wells plays both gently and hard and it all sounds dynamic, vibrant. I think he's playing amped and varying between a cupped and open thing - well, you tell me? Can you do this acoustically?
This is not a polemic - looking for inspiration.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Dec 23, 2013 7:16 AM
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Komuso
263 posts
Dec 22, 2013
3:54 AM
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There's a range of technique in this one
I sometimes turn off my HarpRack mic and stand off just using the vocal mic to pick up the harp, with no FX. Depends on the song.
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Paul Cohen aka Komuso Tokugawa
HarpNinja - Your harmonica Mojo Dojo
Bringing the Boogie to the Bitstream
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Frank
3535 posts
Dec 22, 2013
4:14 AM
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One of the biggest challenges for me as an hobbyist/amateur,is maintaining the musical awareness of tonal dynamics...
The Pros - incorporate this important ingredient soft/loud- because they play so often and don't wish to bore themselves so they naturally mix up what they do to keep things dynamically interesting for their ears...:)
Here is an improvisation I did last May where I tried to be sensitive to these issues :)
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MindTheGap
130 posts
Dec 22, 2013
12:28 PM
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Frank - Thanks. That's very tasteful playing. I particularly like the sequence starting at 1:45, with crescendo. Do you have any other recordings like this?
Komuso - Also thanks. Yes I suppose I think of DB as the advocate of gentler playing. I like it very much indeed.
From what I read here, people are often saying that at jams they are competing to get heard, do you think that results in pressure to play at higher intensity?
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Frank
3539 posts
Dec 22, 2013
2:11 PM
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In a jam setting ...If you can't hear yourself (hear the music that your playing "loud and clear")... it doesn't matter whether you play the instrument harder, louder, whatever...if you ain't turned up in the mix - GAME OVER - your basically a >harmonica mime< going through the motions :)
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STME58
621 posts
Dec 22, 2013
6:00 PM
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Playing softly is the realm of the advanced player in most instruments. Gaining dynamic range seems to be mostly a matter of learning to play softer, not louder. Watch any school band or orchestra rehearse, and you will frequently hear the conductor calling for less and seldom for more.
Funny thing is, a lot of beginning musicians think playing loudly is impressive when in reality, the opposite is true. I will admit to the attraction of turning the amp up to 11, or blasting away on a brass instrument so you can hear it echo back off the hills. It's just that no one but the player is interested in this kind of playing!
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Frank
3541 posts
Dec 22, 2013
6:16 PM
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Jason has "dynamic sensibilities" to die for :)
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TBird
43 posts
Dec 22, 2013
7:32 PM
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I play quietly and gently a lot, because I don't want to bother the lady in the neighboring apartment. You would think that would be great training, right? But no... It has made me play really loud when I am somewhere with no one to bother because I am so excited to be able to let myself go!
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harmonicanick
2102 posts
Dec 23, 2013
1:18 AM
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I enjoy playing without a mic because it frees the hands up
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MagicPauley57
154 posts
Dec 23, 2013
2:13 AM
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When I can , at work, I'll practice with just a harp, or at home , I believe, playing with a Mic has its own techniques to achieving the sound you 're after, but the majority of tone comes from you.
Dynamics are so important for feel, after all, if you play at full bore all the time, where can you take it?
I love junior wells' playing and the way he performed the song.
It's not what you play, it's how you play, it's that connection with the music that makes the difference
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MindTheGap
133 posts
Dec 23, 2013
7:15 AM
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Frank - Re Hand Jive, excellent. That's what I'm talking about - like the Junior Wells song, a real drive without massive intensity. As for JR, well, there's so much outstanding in his playing that I find it difficult to pick out exactly what the elements are, and he's not playing super-fast there.
TBird - Well, I think it's only right and fair that learners get try out the big sound! Actually it's an interesting point about practising quietly - I do for the same reason and I think that's not been for the best. We can discuss more on the beginner's thread.
Harmonicanick and MP57 - and when you do, do you practice soft/loud? Do you have any clips?
BTW HN, how is your residency going?
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Baker
360 posts
Dec 23, 2013
7:38 AM
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I rarely play amplified these days. Like harmonicnick I like to use my hands to alter the tone, for me it allows more room for expression. I also play fairly quietly, I've found that if you're not blasting out every single note it's actually easier to move around the harp more fluidly.
Here's a session I did a while back: http://www.sb-gd.com/music/The_Casuals_Restin.mp3
Last Edited by Baker on Dec 23, 2013 7:39 AM
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barbequebob
2415 posts
Dec 23, 2013
10:34 AM
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I eventually learned to play quietly acoustically and it showed just how many different varieties of tonal colors are available from the instrument. Whenever I've played acoustically into the PA, it's always with the same mic I'm singing thru and I always have the mic set up on the hot side so that for both vocals and harp, I don't need to "eat" the mic to be heard and just for the vocals alone, you avoid straining your voice and risk getting nodes on the vocal chords, but for acoustic harp, it allows for also better use of your hands. Without good breath control, you will never have good tone or dynamics.
On that Junior Wells tune, he is playing amplified (but back then, most PA's were all tube operated and all were hi-z and that's a classic example right there about the importance of breath control and how even the slightest change makes a HUGE difference.
Using the breath control along with the use of hands, doing this like sometimes not tight cupped at all, partially cupped (opening maybe just 1 finger, 2 fingers, etc., as well as varying which finger you use), which I saw Big Walter Horton do gives you wider tonal color variety.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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MagicPauley57
155 posts
Dec 23, 2013
11:03 AM
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To try and answer your question in the best way possible, as others have said about breath control , timing and dynamics.
be somewhere in the middle so you can breath hard or soft when you need.
Just like singing really, there 's no need to yell all the time.
I do the same when amplified, it really depends on the song, whether your comping or just one solo in the whole number.
I haven't got any clips. I don't teach, I'll try and put clips up if they are any good, until then I'll carry on loving and playing the blues!
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MindTheGap
135 posts
Dec 23, 2013
12:46 PM
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MP57 - Thanks for that, I get you. I'm glad to hear that big volume playing isn't the be all and end all.
Baker - That's a great classic harmonica sound isn't it. It sounds to me laid back and expressive at the same time. Very tasteful.
barbequebob - So is Junior Wells cupping hard on the soft notes, and loosely on the 'loud' notes? The overall volume in my cans stays the same, but that could be compression of the recording process I guess. But if you heard it live, would that be the effect? i.e. changing the tone without just adding volume?
Lots of good ideas here I think, thank you.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Dec 23, 2013 12:48 PM
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MP
3012 posts
Dec 23, 2013
6:57 PM
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When I set-up a harp, I adjust it so the reeds respond w/ feather breath or lots of power.
by feather breath, I mean a breath force so light that it is shallower than people breathe.
this makes for practicing very quietly and being able to access and exercise a very very soft dynamic range.
Anyone well versed in blues will know just how important volume is when playing with dynamics.
playing softly on acoustic harp? of course. take a listen to Paul Butterfields Driftin' and Driftin' as a perfect example of soft acoustic playing. In between his loud into and outro of course.
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i still have a little Hohner stock for reed replacement in three common keys.
when these are gone i'm out of the biz.
click MP for my e-mail address and more info.
Last Edited by MP on Dec 23, 2013 7:00 PM
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MindTheGap
136 posts
Dec 24, 2013
12:41 AM
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MP - Driftin and Driftin - Man alive that is beautiful. It's the first thing I listened to this morning with my coffee after a rough and stormy night here in the UK. Inspiration achieved.
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TBird
46 posts
Dec 25, 2013
12:51 PM
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On a unrelated topic:
As a novice player who spends most of his time hanging out in 2nd position. Barrett's "Feelin' For The Blues" video has really made me want to learn 1st and 3rd position blues. Thanks for posting that Komuso!
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walterharp
1264 posts
Dec 25, 2013
7:57 PM
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well, yes and no.. anybody who plays harp at acoustic jams with no amplification, it is pretty clear that a harmonica played softly simply does not cut past a couple of acoustic guitars. a good strong harp player cuts, and they do because they are loud. not because they are blowing hard, but because they have the mechanics down to project acoustic tone. It is like a good public speaker or singer, they can project and this means putting out volume....
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MindTheGap
137 posts
Dec 25, 2013
11:26 PM
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walterharp - Yes, I see that. I guess my question included 'amplified, acoustic tone'. As in this starting at 36:30.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Dec 25, 2013 11:32 PM
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Kingley
3336 posts
Dec 26, 2013
12:28 AM
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MindTheGap - I'm not quite sure I understand what question you're asking.
Are you asking whether some people play quietly acoustically?
Or is it do some people play quietly acoustically when playing into a vocal mic?
Or is it do some people play quietly when using an amp and then let the amp do more of the work?
Or is it does playing quietly affect tone and not simply volume when playing?
The answer to all those questions is yes. Some players do play quietly and use more dynamics in their playing than others. The tonal variety that using dynamics can give a player is huge. The use of volume and/or hand effects/cupping techniques can have a massive effect on the tone a player can produce. Walterharp is right when he says " a good strong harp player cuts, and they do because they are loud. not because they are blowing hard, but because they have the mechanics down to project acoustic tone."
Most of the good players spend time working on projection and realise that blowing hard is not how to achieve that. It's achieved more by the resonance created by using the diaphragm to breathe properly and shaping the vocal tract to create a wide open space for the sound to live in.
It's the same with singers. If you look at someone like Whitney Houston she could effortlessly hold big loud, long notes for a long time with no sense of struggling. Then in a split second she could reduce it to a whisper and still retain the emotional intensity of that note. When you watch some of the talent show contestants it's more obvious just by watching them that they are almost screaming the notes and using huge breath force to do so. You can hear their tone breaking up and see the struggle in the faces. This is because they don't have the same foundational skills that someone like Whitney had.
It's the same with harp players. the more solid the foundations the less they have to work to get the variations in tone and when they do go to the extremes they can push it much further for much longer than someone with less foundational skills. Hopefully that answers some of what you're asking and helps a little.
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Komuso
267 posts
Dec 26, 2013
12:35 AM
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"This is because they don't have the same foundational skills that someone like Whitney had."
They don't need to, they have AUTOTUNE!
OMG! BRAINSTORM! AUTOTUNE FOR HARMONICA!
*cracks open visual studio*
Joke. I'd never inflict that on anyone;-)
----------
Paul Cohen aka Komuso Tokugawa
HarpNinja - Your harmonica Mojo Dojo
Bringing the Boogie to the Bitstream
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MindTheGap
139 posts
Dec 26, 2013
1:14 AM
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Kingley - Well, it was an open question. So all of those! I was looking for inspiration around playing quietly with expression, in a world where so much praise is given to the big, loud, blow-your-brains-out-deep-vibrato sound. And I have that inspiration now.
As a learner, what do you shoot for? Variety I think. I'm not a singer, but the resonance you and others mention must be the thing.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Dec 26, 2013 1:16 AM
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Kingley
3337 posts
Dec 26, 2013
1:34 AM
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As a learner, what do you shoot for?
I'd say try looking at some YouTube videos on diaphragmatic breathing and singing lessons on breathing. Those will help with the resonance thing. Other than that I'd say just keep learning songs. Pick a player you really like and try to learn some of their songs note for note. Listen to each part in turn and get each part down, so you can play it in your sleep. It'll seem almost impossible at first, but you'll be surprised at how much you learn and how quickly you learn it if you stick with it. Once you have learnt a handful of songs from one player you'll see the doors opening to other players styles a lot more easily.
If I remember rightly you're based in or around Oxford? (Where I grew up) There are a few people around that area who can give you tips on playing in person and I believe there is also a pretty good scene at the Bullingdon on Cowley Road in east Oxford. Maybe you could try getting to London and attend some of the London Harmonica School workshops there too. That might help as you'd be getting real time feedback on what you're doing right and what you need to work on more.
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MindTheGap
140 posts
Dec 26, 2013
2:53 AM
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Kingley - Good advice. There are so many great players and styles to listen to and try out, got to focus. And then, thanks to this forum, I find myself on Boxing Day in the shed trying to bend an overblow!
In fact I've got in touch with a local, oxharp, and we might hook up in the new year. I really like his sound, and also he owns every mic I've ever read about.
I might try a jam next year in Oxford. I'm enjoying reading all the horror stories - band tuned down 1/2 step, John Bonham on drums, SRV on guitar, permanent hearing damage...
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Dec 26, 2013 2:55 AM
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Frank
3557 posts
Dec 26, 2013
4:56 AM
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MindTheGap
142 posts
Dec 26, 2013
7:39 AM
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Frank - I love that track, but it sounds to me like he is playing quite hard there. Is that right?
BTW why do you post your vids in small format?
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barbequebob
2416 posts
Dec 26, 2013
10:36 AM
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@MindTheGap -- Junior not only does the cupping hard on soft and looser for hard notes, but he also does the exact opposite as well on many recordings. Back in the day of that particular recording on the video you posted and much earlier, there was FAR LESS of the kinds of things like compression being used in the studio and compression, if memory serves me correct, did't begin to appear in studios until the late 70's-early 80's, and so the video you posted also wouldn't have that at all because the recording was done in 1965.
I've heard a lot of that stuff done live by many great players over the years and I learned a lot of that from seeing Big Walter Horton at least a dozen times or more during the 70's.
Kingley's post is very dead on and the Autotune software didn't exist until around the mid-90's or later, which is when digital recording become the norm and prior to that, most every studio recording was largely done on open reel tape at about the speed of 15-30 IPS (inches per second) and higher.
Tho YT videos can help in learning breathing exercises, what I strongly urge you to do is go to a reputable vocal coach, which is what I did (and have NEVER regretted) and the first thing every reputable vocal coach is going to do is check your breathing and your relaxation technique and, much like with harmonica, both of these things go hand in hand. One thing very important that breathing lessons will do is show you how to project everything using THE LEAST amount of air necessary and most players who use too much breath force was 85% of their breath and can't control ANYTHING.
LW is NOT playing quite hard at all because most players who play too hard will often sound really harsh and tinny sounding on high pitched harps.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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MindTheGap
143 posts
Dec 27, 2013
2:33 AM
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barbequebob - Thanks for all that info.
Visiting a vocal coach does sound like a good idea. Being able to play efficiently would suit me very well.
It may be of interest that I recently had a harp lesson where all we focused on for two hours was the quality, tone, loudness of straight notes i.e. no vibrato or other effects. I should write this up as it could be useful for other beginners. But cutting to the chase, the teacher was able to bring in extra harmonics to the note that made it much louder for the same amount of air. I guess this will be no surprise to experienced players. I recorded the both of us and analysed the spectrum (coz I'm that kind of guy) and the big characteristic of his most powerful notes was that they had the fundemental, not much 2nd harmonic(octave) and loads of 3rd harmonic (an octave + a fifth). These notes sound sharp but full, I think like the LW notes in that clip I think. I've been practising this and what it feels like is that you have something to grip and pull against when drawing, like with a draw bend. So you don't have to pull so much air through. Hope that makes sense.
He could also sustain notes for ages, I guess using a combination of proper diaphram breathing and the better efficiency.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Dec 27, 2013 2:33 AM
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barbequebob
2418 posts
Dec 27, 2013
9:12 AM
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If you're always playing too hard, you cannot sustain ANYTHING at all and when you use a softer breath, it's a 1000 times easier and that's something I learned from watching Carey Bell do this with Willie Dixon on an uptempo blues where he held out a single note for some 36 bars, and that's a helluva long time and those who play too hard aren't gonna last even 1 bar, let alone 36 of them!!!
Mindthegarp, what you post makes perfect sense in what LW does because most players who play too hard all the time bring out the very worst in the instrument, and the only instrument that has more harmonic overtones than the harmonica is a piano, but harmonicas have odd numbered overtones by the truckload in the upper overtones and when you use too much force, your tone is crap and you're not playing resonantly and when you play resonantly, you bring out more even numbered overtones, which makes everything sound bigger, fatter and rounder wheras doing it the other way makes the instrument sound thin, tinny and extremely harshm, especially if you're playing higher pitched harps.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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Kingley
3338 posts
Dec 27, 2013
9:25 AM
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Bob - Your last paragraph above is probably the single best explanation I've read as to why it's important not to blow the hell out of the thing all the time.
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Frank
3564 posts
Dec 27, 2013
3:10 PM
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MG...The small vids load faster and can be made full screen if desired...
A lot of the appearance of 'hard playing' is due to microphones...
An experienced player or Pro - is going to let the mic do the heavy lifting and create the illusion they are blowing their brains out.
Pull the plug on the mic and suddenly it's very quiet - plug it back in and BAM - it's like thunder again...
Even without a microphone being involved… a Pro is more interested in “projecting tone”, knowing that- the loudness will take care of itself naturally through good intonation etc :)
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1847
1433 posts
Dec 27, 2013
3:29 PM
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just the other day some of the top pro's admitted
that they tend to play hard.
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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Frank
3565 posts
Dec 27, 2013
3:57 PM
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I think it is safe to say... what they consider 'hard'... is not how the average player is playing...
...inother words, I'd bet that their so-called hard playing is "soft" compared to the average players attack :)
Last Edited by Frank on Dec 27, 2013 3:58 PM
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1847
1434 posts
Dec 27, 2013
4:18 PM
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if all these players play so soft
then they do not need their endorsement deal
perhaps they can donate their free harps to an average player like me.
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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Frank
3566 posts
Dec 27, 2013
4:52 PM
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As much as these guys play compared to the average player, they have no choice but to play soft/smart - so they can afford their passion of playing the harp 25 hours a day :)
Last Edited by Frank on Dec 27, 2013 4:53 PM
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kudzurunner
4466 posts
Dec 27, 2013
6:23 PM
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MindtheGap: Your insight is keen. Yes, many of us--especially those of us who have been buskers--try to grab attention with flash, straight off. But there's a whole other way of grabbing attention, the low slider, and Iceman has talked about it more than once. In a context where everybody is shouting, sometimes it's more effective to whisper. Sometimes that forces people to pay attention. Sometimes, of course, they just ignore you and focus on those who are flashing.
Last year around this time I had the opportunity to contribute some quiet acoustic playing to a documentary about a restorative justice project investigating cold cases in the Deep South, ones with a heavy racial element. My playing begins around the 2:33 point and continues to the end.d (Somebody else plays on the opening credits.) Here's a link to the video:
http://nucrrj.businesscatalyst.com/index.html
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barbequebob
2419 posts
Dec 28, 2013
8:39 AM
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@Frank -- Your quote "I think it is safe to say... what they consider 'hard'... is not how the average player is playing...
...inother words, I'd bet that their so-called hard playing is "soft" compared to the average players attack :)" is absolutely DEAD ON target and 100% truthful and the average player often plays CONSIDERABLY than the vast majority of pros do and the average player really hasn't got a real clue as to how hard they're really playing and VERY FEW average players think they play very hard, so often they themselves are really poor judges of their own playing.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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Frank
3571 posts
Dec 28, 2013
9:18 AM
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The Following are passages taken from Dennis Gruenlings site - badassharmonica.com
1)Here is one of the GOLDEN RULES about playing harmonica – the lighter and softer you play, the better your technique will be and the more techniques and subtleties you will be able to do! This of course goes against human nature when learning something becomes frustrating and we want to just force it to make it happen…or just “try harder”. 99% of the time (or more) when we try playing with more force or heavier breath, it will make any technique tougher to master and the desired effect more elusive.
2)IMPORTANT : if you want harps to last – especially custom harps that have been set up to be played lightly and/or for overbends – you want to learn how to play lightly, or you will blow your harps out.
3)You need to work on breath control (many players, if not most players do need to work on this), you will probably need to re-tune or replace reeds sooner than you think
4)To summarize, I have seen many amateur and even beginner players play “custom harps”, with varying results. There is a noticeable percentage of players that regret the wait & cost of them because they bought “custom” harps before they really learned breath control, and found themselves blowing the harps out of tune or damaging reeds from blowing too hard. This is not recommended. If you are thinking of buying “custom” harps and DO have some breath control (easier said than done, believe me – most players think they do and they don’t), then it can be very worthwhile. If you DON’T have some breath control, I would suggest learning to control your breathing more, and perhaps work on using some of the “better” out-of-the-box harps out there like the Marine Band Crossover or Marine Band Deluxe, my personal favorites. They do play better than a “standard” harp, yet aren’t overly responsive so that most people won’t ruin reeds quickly by blowing hard.
Read more: http://badassharmonica.com
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1847
1435 posts
Dec 28, 2013
10:08 AM
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here is an actual qoute from a well known player
I play pretty damn hard/forceful when I'm not playing actual over blows (sometimes even on them)
Paul is one of my favorite harmonica players ever and he plays VERY hard.
i find it amusing someone can "spin" that into something it is not.
in the video he is playing a new harmonica
why is that?????
because the last one went flat!
why would a harmonica go out of tune?
because it has been rode hard and put away wet
the manji harmonica is one of the longer lasting one's out there.why on earth would ronnie shellist and rob paparozzi switch from suzuki to hohner,
if they play so softly, they will almost never blow out a harp, why would they need an endorsement deal to begin with. unless perhaps they are getting HUGE sums of money to do so.
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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MindTheGap
145 posts
Dec 28, 2013
10:57 AM
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kudzurunner - That's a very powerful documentary. And tasteful music. It's not until right at the end that I might have identified your playing just by listening to it. In terms of pure hours, I've listened to your playing the most.
As Kingley pointed out, there's more than one idea come from the original question - there's playing efficiently, but making it sound dynamic and big; playing flat-out; playing softly and sounding gentle.
I'm particularly interested in the 'efficient' one, and trying to work out how to do that.
But do you only get to play 'soft and gentle' when you are a big enough name that you can command it?
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Frank
3573 posts
Dec 28, 2013
11:46 AM
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Try this experiment... find the songs were those Pros are playing hard and forceful or VERY hard... and try to play them yourself that way and see if you get decent results - good luck :)
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colman
287 posts
Dec 28, 2013
11:56 AM
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Ihave always had a playing attack on harp and guitar that i call "float like a butterfly,sting like a bee"also crack that whip when it`s ready to squeal.songs like "viet cong blues" jr. wells & buddy guy ,are the very style i assimilated the last44 yrs.
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barbequebob
2422 posts
Dec 30, 2013
12:29 PM
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@Frank --- Thanks for quoting Dennis Gruenling because what he says is absolutely the cold, hard, brutal truth and the vast majority of harp players haven't got a clue as to how hard they're REALLY playing.
@MIndTheGap --- what I strongly recommend to you as I do with other harp players is go to a reputable vocal coach for breathing and relaxation exercises because for vocals, just like with harp playing or horn players for that matter, breath control is absolutely VITAL, and with a reputable vocal coach, the very first thing they'll do is to check your breathing and relaxation and even tho there are YT videos for much of this, it is still FAR better to have the coach there and doing it front of him/her because they will notice things that 99% of the time I guarantee that you will completely miss the boat on. I did it and never regretted it and learned how to get the greatest amount of volume and projection with the absolute LEAST amount of breath necessary and one of the things vocal coaches teach is singing with a very open throat and one of the things you have to do in order to be able to do this is to be 100% fully physically relaxed and most harp players aren't even remotely close to that at all.
The knowledge of breath control is also why many opera singers and completely carry over a large symphony orchestra without ever needing a PA and these are things they work on constantly.
When you're fully relaxed, all of your air passages are fully wide open and you get more air with 80% LESS EFFORT, and the vast majority of players who play too hard all the time, the exact opposite happens. Once you learn these things, don't be surprised if you find the frequency of harp blow out gets dramatically lowered.
@1847 --- Endorsement deals are basically a promotional tool and most of the time, you're not getting big money for that and it's been a good 50 years since the time if you had an endorsement deal from Hohner, it would also mean free harps, and so this is promotional and marketing stuff for both the player and the manufacturer.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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tmf714
2307 posts
Dec 30, 2013
1:44 PM
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I had a full bag of dead harps I sent to Jim in Latvia when he had his harp trade in going on-that bag came from my lip pursing days.
I have blown out 3 harps in my 8 years of tongue blocking-I still play too hard most of the time-Dennis got me on the "let the amp do the work for you" bandwagon,but I also need to work on softer acoustic playing.
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MindTheGap
147 posts
Dec 30, 2013
11:59 PM
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barbequebob - Re vocal coach, I hear you. I think that is a very good idea.
My piano teacher was also a classical singer. She would be talking at a normal volume, then open up to sing a melody and the intensity was, well, alarming. Not something that would come across in a YT video.
When I went for my 'harp tone lesson' I wondered if I would find the same effect - fortunately the difference between me and the teacher wasn't as great as a singer. But it was significant. Since then I think I've improved a lot in this department by doing some basic things...
1. opening the throat and putting the the larynx in a more neutral position (described by others here as the pre-yawn)
2. taking conscious control of the timbre of the note. A while ago Adam posted controversially about 'LW's Thin Tone' and the concensus was not thin but cutting or sharp.
The standard advice about putting the harp deep in the mouth or tilting, well I have tried or do all that, and my experience is that it has much less effect than the throat-related stuff. I think it is necessary but not sufficient.
I reckon I've scratched the surface here, but it's a start.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Dec 31, 2013 12:00 AM
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Pistolcat
565 posts
Jan 01, 2014
2:34 PM
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This is a great topic and I'm really enjoying your postings, MindTheGap. You have sharp ears and mind.
I have thought a lot about this since I first read the thread and recorded a piece where I play as softly as I can in a, frankly quite stubborn, Lee Oskar in Low F. The result was... well a bit surprising actually. I must say that playing this soft and slow took A Lot of air and breath control. Please keep posting, MindTheGap!
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Pistolkatt - Pistolkatts youtube
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STME58
623 posts
Jan 01, 2014
6:45 PM
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I was thinking it would be interesting to measure pressure in the reed chamber vs. volume of the harmonica. I looked up miniature pressure transducers and found these;
Link to transducer
They are small enough to fit in a reed chamber. If they are cheap enough I might get one and record decibel level outside the harp at the same time as taking the pressure level behind the reed. If they react fast enough they might even show the pressure changes as the reed swings and might be able to detect a quantitative difference between a well supported air stream and just blowing into the harp, which is something I have been interested in.
Last Edited by STME58 on Jan 01, 2014 6:48 PM
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MindTheGap
149 posts
Jan 02, 2014
12:02 PM
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pistolcat - thanks for your positive comments. That is indeed very quiet playing! Interesting effects there especially with the chords. Have you added some phaser or is that you? With this recording in mind, I was recommended to listen to the saxophonist Ben Webster - he often plays so softly with the reed just purring into life, and a lot of the tone is simply breath sounds. Quite a thing.
Actually, I've noticed in your vids that you often record acoustic tone, and I would like to get some advice about that. But I'll do that in another thread.
STME58 - Interesting idea. I believe that people have done this kind of analysis with other instruments e.g. to improve violin manufacture, so why not harmonica?
On a another note, this could form the basis of Frank's reedless harp.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Jan 02, 2014 12:03 PM
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Pistolcat
566 posts
Jan 02, 2014
12:53 PM
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I have used a small amount of reverb but I think you're hearing my ultrasoft trembly vibrato :). Try playing a chord very softly with a ridiculously large mouth/throat/resonance chamber behind it and put a diaphragmic tremolo on top.
I used a sm58 connected to my brand new focus rite Scarlett 2i4. Very nice pre amp. The gain is cranked really high to capture this low volume.
That focus rite equipment is really nice. In earlier videos I use the sm 58 straight into my video camera via a xlr-camera cable...
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Pistolkatt - Pistolkatts youtube
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