harpfox
1 post
Dec 13, 2013
1:18 PM
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Hi all.
My question is..how do you shift from a major pentatonic to a minor pentatonic.
normally i play the major on the I chord and then on the IV-V chord switch to minor.
but im finding the transition awkward.
does anyone know of any way you can smoothly transition between these scales?
or maybe im just funkused and this question is redundant..
let me know
cheers!
Last Edited by harpfox on Dec 13, 2013 1:26 PM
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Frank
3476 posts
Dec 13, 2013
5:55 PM
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Awkwardness is a blessing in disguise...use this time of uncertainty to "practice" patient "practice".
You will master the transition of those scales, [eventually]...WHEN - is of no concern,
it will happen in it's own time - according to the guilty of time spent, selah :)
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The Centipide Saloon
Tip Your Waiter Please
Last Edited by Frank on Dec 13, 2013 5:56 PM
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Moon Cat
303 posts
Dec 13, 2013
6:04 PM
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Hey Harpfox, Great name by the way. one great way is try it on a slow blues (Major), because it gives you a little more time, try playing two bars major pen other guys do it all the time . I think I have a video lesson on you tube of this very thing but I forgot the title, sorry. This is a great topic not redundant Harpfox.
Last Edited by Moon Cat on Dec 13, 2013 6:06 PM
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Moon Cat
304 posts
Dec 13, 2013
6:13 PM
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I just watched this video again and I think it's not enough on this subject, I think I may have addressed this a few times in other vids too… but this one may give you the general idea. I think I should make a video just dedicated to mixing them but heres the one.This is a good subject especially for blues.
Last Edited by Moon Cat on Dec 13, 2013 6:14 PM
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Gnarly
817 posts
Dec 13, 2013
8:31 PM
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OK, I confess, I play guitar better (and for a lot longer) than harp--
But when I think of mixing up major and minor (sic) pentatonics, I always think of the embedded song--at :16, Clapton plays a major pentatonic, then minor--
Strictly speaking, a lick in A major penta, then in C major penta.
PS Mooncat, I look forward to your further explanations and explorations of this topic.
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Milsson
95 posts
Dec 13, 2013
10:41 PM
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Att the end of this clip Jason play a super sweet slow blues that does just that!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bbgio8SxDQU&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Last Edited by Milsson on Dec 13, 2013 10:47 PM
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Gnarly
819 posts
Dec 13, 2013
11:16 PM
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Nice!
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timeistight
1449 posts
Dec 14, 2013
2:41 AM
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The major pentatonic scale is 1, 2, 3, 5, 6; the minor pentatonic is 1, b3, 4, 5, b7. No matter where you are in the major pentatonic scale, you're either a half-step away from a minor pentatonic note (2 to b3, 3 to 4, or 6 to b7) or you're already on already on a minor pentatonic note (1 or 5). The same thing works in the other direction going from the minor pentatonic to the major pentatonic.
You can also add tension by including missing blue notes (adding the b5 to the minor pentatonic or adding the b3, b7 or b5 to major pentatonic) add then resolving the tension note to a note in your target scale.
Or you can abandon both scales at the chord change and play chord tones instead.
Last Edited by timeistight on Dec 14, 2013 2:42 AM
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Milsson
96 posts
Dec 14, 2013
8:14 AM
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I would listen to blues singers.. Old jazz/blues ladies do it all the time. Major-minor call and response.
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timeistight
1450 posts
Dec 14, 2013
10:51 AM
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You don't have to switch scales right at the chord change. It can sound really good to anticipate a chord change by playing the new scale early. And of course, you can make either scale work through the whole progression if you use your ears and taste.
Here's a great book about major and minor blues scales (which are major and minor pentatonics with one additional note each):
Click on the cover for more info.
Last Edited by timeistight on Dec 14, 2013 10:52 AM
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harpfox
6 posts
Dec 14, 2013
6:02 PM
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@Moon Cat
you sort of address this at the end of your 'how to play melodic lesson'..on how to make statements with various scales(one major followed by minor)to create blues..but it would be awesome to have a video dedicated just to this.
i was thinking There are notes in common with both scales and these can be used to connect the scales..smooth transitioning..
i dont want to think in licks but
kinda like 8 blow and 6 ob BB king riff kinda thing..or 6b 5ob 5draw on the 7.
cheers!
ps. esoteric spirit animal foxes are obsessed with scales and trails!
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harpfox
7 posts
Dec 15, 2013
12:32 PM
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@moon cat
your right! you did cover this extensively. gotta clean my ears. lol.
The advice on playing on slow blues is solid. its working! By adding one outside note to the scale i suddenly see the value of notes that are not in the scale.
@ all others!
solid sdvice!
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The Iceman
1335 posts
Dec 16, 2013
7:40 AM
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Remember...first came the music. Then came the theorists to try to explain the music through theory, or develop a theory to explain the music.
All notes are fair game. Eliminating those that don't sound too good and lean towards the expressive ones is what theory development is all about.
All theory and rules are also made to be broken.
There is no bottom line one right way.
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The Iceman
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Gnarly
821 posts
Dec 16, 2013
9:24 AM
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@Iceman +1
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mr_so&so
774 posts
Dec 16, 2013
10:17 AM
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Harpfox, you may be interested in this recent thread. Isaac talked about the "blue zones" I.e., blue notes are NOT the minor 3rd and flatted 5th and 7th, but the range of tones between major 2nd and major third, major 4th and 5th, major 6th and 7th. The harp in second position gives you full access to the first of these zones, half access to the second zone, and only a little play with the third. How you use the tones in the blues zones will flavour the music. Slurring notes between major 2nd (3d'') and major 3rd (3d) keep a major feel because they are passing tones. Hitting and holding notes near the flatted 3rd, 5th, 7th give you a bluesy feel.
I'm just starting to play with this myself. I've found that I can move back and forth between major and bluesy feeling with familiar songs, such as Amazing Grace.
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Last Edited by mr_so&so on Dec 16, 2013 10:20 AM
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isaacullah
2584 posts
Dec 16, 2013
1:37 PM
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There are two approaches to this: one, you can do what mr so&so is talking about. in this approach, you blend the two scales together to get a new scale. Alternatively, you can consider changing keys and scale feelings along to a chord pattern. In that case, you can follow the same logics as with diatonic music, and also you can play modally (and switch positions as you move through the progression). In that case, you are changing keys and also the major or minor feel according to the series of pentatonic modes. There's less info out there about pentatonic modes than for diatonic modes, but the logic is the same. For example, the "minor" pentatonic starts on the third scale degree of the relative major pentatonic, and uses just the same notes as it, but centered differently. The black keys on a piano make a pentatonic scale. If you start on the first key of the set of three "black keys" and play all the higher black key notes, you are playing a major pentatonic. Start on the last of those three black keys, and you are playing a minor pentatonic. Just the same, if you start on any of the black keys, they'll have a more major or more minor feel, depending upon where the "little' spaces and "large" spaces are lined up in the scale. Sorry to be so rambly, but I'm pressed for time at the moment. Play around with it, and you'll figure it out quickly...
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