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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
A gig is 30% music,40% singing,30% presentation
A gig is 30% music,40% singing,30% presentation
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Jim Rumbaugh
940 posts
Dec 04, 2013
7:09 PM
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The gig is 30% music 40% singing, 30% presentation.
That's my theory or motto or creed. You need all 3 to drive it all the way out of the park. You can get by with one or two, but it's when you have all three that you have a show, or a crowd pleaser.
Rank yourself in all three catagories and see what you have.
Example, 100% music = 30
50% singing = 20
50% presentation = 15
you only hit 65% out of 100%
This explains why some guys can play their ass off, but still not make it. It also explains why some guys that can sing and put on a show, but are only competent musicians, can make a successful go in the music scene.
What's your opinion??
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theharmonicaclub.com (of Huntington, WV)
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Mirco
34 posts
Dec 04, 2013
7:36 PM
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The strongest argument for presentation is the band KISS. They really made good on stellar presentation and mostly mediocre talent levels.
I don't think any would argue that Ace Frehley is not a great rock guitarist and Paul Stanley is a good frontman, but for the most part... it's all the show.
Last Edited by Mirco on Dec 04, 2013 7:36 PM
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JInx
670 posts
Dec 04, 2013
7:55 PM
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100% presentation? All the world is a stage?
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Sun, sun, sun
Burn, burn, burn
Soon, soon, soon
Moon, moon, moon
Last Edited by JInx on Dec 04, 2013 7:57 PM
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kudzurunner
4417 posts
Dec 04, 2013
8:18 PM
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It depends, Jim. If you're a harp-playing bandleader, I think you've got the percentages about right.
But if you're a harp playing sideman and don't sing, then it's 85% music, 15% presentation. If you're a brilliant musician, it doesn't matter too much if you're spastic or not optimally dressed.
But here's the thing: if you're a harp playing sideman and you're NOT a brilliant player, then you can compensate for that weakness to some extent by upping your game in the comportment department. If you come dressed to kill and you move well, you'll fool many of the people most of the time.
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GMaj7
315 posts
Dec 04, 2013
8:40 PM
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In my old band.. Alamo and the Wheelers.. our motto was :
"What we lack in talent, we make up in showmanship"
I think there was a lot more of the latter..
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Greg Jones
16:23 Custom Harmonicas
greg@1623customharmonicas.com
1623customharmonicas.com
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Jehosaphat
629 posts
Dec 04, 2013
9:27 PM
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I can see where you are coming from on this Jim and i think it can apply to a lot of situations but i think the actual gig can vary the percentages a bit.
One example is where the performers are playing ethnic music(eg Irish trad)or (gasp) genuine blues(not pub blues)in a more 'concert' setting.
That is where i think people are actually there for the music not a 'show' per se.
But yes for a band playing say a friday night bar gig i think your maths are very true.
Last Edited by Jehosaphat on Dec 04, 2013 9:49 PM
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blueswannabe
372 posts
Dec 04, 2013
10:19 PM
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At my last gig, someone asked me why I wasn't standing next to the band and instead playing about 10 feet in front. I said,"You know you're right" and then stood on the stage next to my bass and guitar players. we started to video our performances and during practices critique our music, presentation, and singing, as well as interest. I don't know about the percentages but it seems to me that it's all important, and that there is always room for improvement in each area. You can't be complacent in any area.
Last Edited by blueswannabe on Dec 04, 2013 10:22 PM
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wolfkristiansen
245 posts
Dec 04, 2013
11:46 PM
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This will turn out to be a long thread. Let me be one of the first to weigh in.
All who contribute to this forum are harmonica players. Most are blues players, some are modern blues players.
This is an educated guess: Of the harmonica players in this forum, half play on stage often or at least more than rarely. Of those, some get paid once in a while to play (that describes me), and a tiny percentage (5%?) get paid regularly; i.e. they get regular gigs. An even smaller percentage (1%?) make a living at it, i.e. they don't have a day job. An even smaller percentage make recordings that sell.
This post is especially aimed at the 5% who fit into the last three categories-- your opinions should count for a lot when the topic of gigs comes up. Adam G., I know you've made recordings. I'm guessing you get paid to play regularly. (You still have a day job; am I right?). Your opinion and opinions from other working musicians are valued. Please give us more than the brief opinion you've given.
The original post is about succeeding in gigs, but one has to get a gig before thinking about driving it out of the park.
Let this currently non-working musician offer his opinion about getting a gig-- a released recording helps. I listened to my friend Jim Byrnes (Vancouverite, originally from St. Louis) being interviewed on a local radio station years ago. He had two albums out at the time. He told the radio interviewer, "They didn't sell well, but they make great calling cards when you're trying to score a gig!".
An agent helps. I had one, back in the day when I was making a living with my 4 inch instrument (harmonica, so it's clear). The agent took care of the business, we (me and the band) took care of the music.
Back to the original post. Thanks for bringing it up, we all want to do well at gigs. My analysis differs.
The gig is 60% presentation, 30% singing and 10% music. I don't like this (since all I do is play, with no singing and very little "show biz") but I recognize reality. Presentation includes youth, good looks, good stage clothes, energy, movement (including dance moves), engagement with the audience even when the inner you doesn't want to go there.
Singing-- good singers will trump good instrumentalists every time, if for no other reason than the fact they are communicating music AND words. Like my musically illiterate friend said, "I like music, as long as it's got words."
Musicians get gigs because they are musicians. Not poets, not comedians, not actors. But, in truth, the general public is so unsophisticated when it comes to music that it will accept mediocre musical skills if it is otherwise entertained. It will applaud a great "show package" without looking too closely at the musical skills in that package.
All I've got to offer is music. I do my best, and hope people like it. So far, so good. But I accept I will never be rich or famous from my little trick-- making music with a four inch piece of metal.
Cheers,
wolf kristiansen
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MagicPauley57
142 posts
Dec 05, 2013
2:39 AM
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It's also who you know and being in the right social circles to get the musicians you want, I always give 100% of myself to a band I'm getting the impression of no matter of trying to get the right people, the door is shut. And all I'm left with is timewasters and overly noisy drummers! Or am I just too fussy?
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rbeetsme
1441 posts
Dec 05, 2013
4:21 AM
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I think Leo Kotke, Chet Atkins, Joe Satriani, The Ventures and a lot of bluegrass bands would disagree.
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Tuckster
1375 posts
Dec 05, 2013
8:35 AM
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I'm pretty much in agreement with Wolf's opinion on this. The general audience is impressed with presentation and a good vocalist. If you had an audience of nothing but musicians,then the music aspect would carry a lot more weight.
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harmonicanick
2089 posts
Dec 05, 2013
10:20 AM
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No the gig is 100% effort,
Assuming you are musically adept enough to perform:
- Grow a thick skin for rejection
- Grow a thick skin for musical 'differences'
- Grow a thick skin for band mates letting you down
- Grow a thick skin for the lack of money
- Grow a thick skin for cancelled gigs with no notice
- Grow a thick skin for the lies musicians pedal
- Grow a thick skin for lead guitars too loud
- Grow a thick skin for PA ownership quarrels
- Grow a thick skin for drummers with no transport
- Grow a thick skin for young hungry players who will do anything to get a gig
Sorry rant over!! Have a good time playing out, I do 3 times a week:)
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walterharp
1246 posts
Dec 05, 2013
11:04 AM
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I do not think presentation needs to be false.. the most common compliment we get as a band is that people like to come back and hear us because we look like we are having fun. We have a top-level guitarist who will sit in with us for just that reason, certainly not the pay an 8 member band can offer around here. If you communicate your joy and passion through your music AND your actions and interactions with the rest of the band and the audience, that goes a long way.
Some of my favorite live pro musicians.. Bonnie Raitt, Emmy Lou Harris, Joan Armatrading, the dead, Yonder Mountain, Weather Report.. etc put passion and intensity across live when you see (saw) them.. I have seen Simon and Garfunkle, Jackson Brown, Tom Scott and others give performances when they were obviously not into it and pissed off.. probably just a bad night, but the top-level musicianship was there.. just not a very enjoyable show.
Of course not everybody needs to do it.. Entwistle stood still as a stone while Townsend Moon and Daltrey jumped around like crazy...
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Stevelegh
887 posts
Dec 05, 2013
1:43 PM
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Its largely about material and demographics.
Some music just doesn't work in certain places.
I play a lot of disco on guitar because where I'm from, girls love it.
Boys like girls and will actively chase them onto the dance floor over this stuff.
Honestly, I'd love to live somewhere I could play blues and chicks dig it, but where I live it doesn't work. I'm sorry, but I'd rather play what works....
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nacoran
7397 posts
Dec 05, 2013
3:51 PM
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There is something to be said, too, for hitting the audience with something familiar. There is a reason record companies used to pay stations to play their songs. On the local scene, without radio play, that means playing out a lot, with some consistency in your set list, or doing covers.
I'm an open mic kind of player, but when we were playing open mics regularly, you get three songs, and you want at least one of them to be something the audience knows, so we rotated our songs through. We tried not to play anything two weeks in a row, but we also tried to make sure we repeated stuff often enough for people to get familiar with our songs. To some extent it worked. We had regulars singing along and asking for particular songs. If only we'd had some CD's to sell!
Targeting is important too. Different types of songs will play differently depending on the venue, like Stevelegh said. Genre aside, coffee house vs. bar vs. club sounds are going to need a different touch. You can dirty a song loaded with dirty innuendo to a packed room, but if the place is dead and you are making eye contact with a young lady who happens to be the only person in the room you are going to come off creepy. Watch the audience. Sometimes we were just jamming, and you could see the crowd slipping away. If you are losing them anyway, go for broke and go out big. Maybe you can't pull off 64th notes and bent split doublestops or sustain a note for 5 minutes without passing out, but if you are losing them anyway, go big or go home (and sometimes, it's time to go home!)
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Nate
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Jim Rumbaugh
941 posts
Dec 05, 2013
6:31 PM
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I started this thread after another thread asked about the importance of singing. I consider singing as important or more so than the music. I also admire the artist that can connect with the audience. I consider all 3 as important elements that need to be worked on in order to give the best performance
Most of you have echoed what I feel. Thanks for replies.
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theharmonicaclub.com (of Huntington, WV)
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tmf714
2227 posts
Dec 05, 2013
6:43 PM
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@Mirco-"I don't think any would argue that Ace Frehley is not a great rock guitarist"
I am personal friends with Ace-not only is he a great guitar player-ranked 14th all time- he was the founding member of Kiss-anything with the Kiss logo Ace gets a piece of. And royalties from the music.
He also happens to be a great guy-very personable and easy to approach.
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Komuso
243 posts
Dec 05, 2013
6:56 PM
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I'm sure he's a great guitar player but as for "ranked 14th all time" ... by who? Maybe he's actually 13th! or 15th!
*ducks*
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Paul Cohen aka Komuso Tokugawa
HarpNinja - Your harmonica Mojo Dojo
Bringing the Boogie to the Bitstream
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1847
1364 posts
Dec 05, 2013
7:03 PM
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He also happens to be a great guy-very personable and easy to approach.
sorry but he is trouble walking
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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tmf714
2228 posts
Dec 05, 2013
7:13 PM
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" I'm sure he's a great guitar player but as for "ranked 14th all time" ... by who?"
Guitar World 2009 Greatest Heavy Metal Guitarists Of All time-its quite an accolade for guitar players-
For 2012 he ranked 92 in the top 100 guitarists of all time-still top 100-not bad.
No need to be sorry 1847-he already knows-he wrote it@!
Heres what he gets for his "Trouble Walking"
Ace Frehley led People With Money’s annual list of the “100 highest paid guitarists” released on Thursday.
Ace Frehley »
See more news, pictures and video.
Hot news
Music December 2013
Ace Frehley: New Album and 2014 World Tour?Babies December 4, 2013
Ace Frehley to Be a Dad?It's been a rough year for the guitarist, but at least he has his millions of dollars to ease the pain. 62-year-old Ace Frehley has taken the No. 1 spot on People With Money’s top 10 highest-paid guitarists for 2013 with an estimated $96 million in combined earnings.
Last Edited by tmf714 on Dec 05, 2013 7:32 PM
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MagicPauley57
143 posts
Dec 05, 2013
11:28 PM
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Love your post harmonicaNick, no other business contains so many hurdles!
Still we battle on, if we didn't lI've it, would've given up years ago!
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jbone
1435 posts
Dec 06, 2013
8:09 AM
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Jolene and I don't stand at all, we sit in a couple of custom painted 50 cent flea market folding chairs. Since she can't use a guitar strap without re-injuring her shoulder, we do this instead. We are both over 50 and gray haired. It's harder to get gigs I think sometimes because prospective employers think we'll bore their audience to death when they see us walk in. Funny though, when we DO take a stage in a joint, we almost always blow some audience members away. Our material choice is not the usual, our arrangements are a bit different, and we do this thing with true passion and always try to have a running discourse with the audience, to include them in a personal way.
We dress the part and our musicianship and musical delivery is high quality. So even with a "handicap" of not standing, dancing, whatever, we still get a good response whether it's on a street corner, at a farmers' market, or at a bar or cafe.
This coming year we plan to add drums and bass and it will be interesting to see how this affects our dynamic.
I have spent a lot of time over 20 years in front of bands as a singer/harp man. In that sense Jim's numbers match up well.
A band I was in got to open for a big act in a nice auditorium one evening. The "emcee" got the band name wrong, guitarist broke a string in the middle of a song, I yanked my cord out of my harp mic on a solo, yet when we exited the stage people came over and slapped us on the back, offered to buy drinks, wanted cd's, all that. Content and delivery, and not letting glitches interrupt the show were on our side.
And incidentally, when I have stood on a stage since then I am very mindful of where my mic cord is! I also sometimes wrap the cord around my wrist "just in case".
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Last Edited by jbone on Dec 06, 2013 8:20 AM
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Frank
3440 posts
Dec 06, 2013
10:01 AM
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Cop Walters singing attitude and you will find a soulful delivery, of course his playing attitude is off the charts too:)
Last Edited by Frank on Dec 06, 2013 10:03 AM
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