I've never tried a standard Marine Band. I'd like to but for the cover plates being held on with nails. Adam has a video where it seems easy to prise them off and get them back again but I'm thinking you can only do that so many times before it all goes wrong. Anyone tried it?
Mirco, you can't practice the bends for more than 5 minutes or so. Your face muscles will start cramping and you will lose the bend. Practice for 5 minutes at a time only and make sure you LISTEN to the bend at the correct pitch it ingrain it into your memory.
Sometimes it's hard keeping going without a teacher to feed you with new challenges and encouragement. Learning always involves ups and downs, you're on a high when you get one thing under your belt, then you watch another fantastic Lee Sankey (or whoever) video and think hmmm, that's a long, long way off. But to get any good you have to keep learning new things. What do you personally do to keep going?
Sorry LumberjackShark, I’ve haven’t stopped by the forum in a few days. In regard to my recent lesson… it was awesome! I’m not sure how to best describe it. Basically he seemed to really appreciate my playing which was a huge confidence boost. It is very reassuring to know that a player I really look up to thinks that I’m going in the right direction. I’m not really sure what I can say that might help you prepare for your lesson. I just hope you have as positive of an experience as I did. If you have already put in some serious work on developing your skills, I think you will! I got the feeling that most of the people that walk through his door looking for a lesson are people that maybe heard him play once, bought a harp, and now what him to magically teach them to be Little Walter. I think he appreciated seeing that (although I AM a beginner!) I had already put considerable time and effort towards leaning the instrument on my own.
If any of this sounds like I am bragging… that is not how I mean it to come across!
It’s clear to me now that that next big step for me is developing confidence when playing with others. I’d like to focus on playing along with jam tracks a lot more. Anyone know of some particular good ones?
I have practiced bending for 30-60 minutes with no problem. Usually I practice in smaller increments, 10-15 minutes at a time, because it's easier to keep focus.
MindtheGap, I can't really answer your question on motivation. I subscribe to David Barrett's website-- bluesharmonica.com-- and he has the material divided by level, so it is a constant challenge. There's just so much to learn. If you feel yourself hitting a plateau, try learning a new technique (like slaps, pulls, vibrato) and applying it to what you already know.
Or: go to blues jams more often. Peer pressure will force you to practice.
TBird, I would recommend the Ultimate Blues Jam Tracks available at: http://www.ultijamtracks.com/blues.html Adam also has some really good jam tracks. They're included in his Deluxe Beginner's Package (which you should really get, if you don't have).
I agree with TBir that it's just a matter of putting time and effort into this. If you practice everyday, you'll see results pretty quickly. I think there are a lot of people who look down on harmonica or underestimate the level of difficulty to play it. That's why your teacher was pleased to see that you are applying yourself seriously to learning it, I guess.
TBird - that's great. It cements my feeling that finding a good teacher and/or mentor is one of the best ways to progress. I'm going to try the Skype option I think, see how that goes.
Mirco - I keep looking at the David Barrett site. I have some of his books and I dig the methodical style. Just the idea of being on a track of new materials seems attractive.
But also I want to hear from other beginners with their motivational tips. What I'm doing myself is keeping a notebook of new riffs and ideas that either come into my head or I hear on tracks. That gives me new material all the time, and the old ones to practice when inspiration levels are low!
Mistake here, if you get a sp20 and get shown how to bend on the 1,2 etc,,3,4,5,6 and find a rythm pattern you may after a few hundred hours actually get something that sounds 'not too bad'. this is my level I hope.However I cannot understand why you 'learners' dont play from some BT'S from the 'Harmonica Boogie site'..I'm always pissed off sometimes when folk try to play like the old timers and the Walters, and copy this, play like he did stuff, I reckon learn their riffs within reason but not the same, and be yourself for once.
Last Edited by SteamrollinStan on Dec 17, 2013 12:45 AM
Re: Motivational Tips I keep written notes as well. They're on the tablet and backed up on a PC for easy reference. My notes include a daily practice routine which is constantly being adjusted. I also keep a list of the instruction material I own so I can see what's been completed, what's current, and what I hope to work on down the road. The last list is a synopsis of what my instructor has told me. I put this in my own words to supplement the personalized notes he makes for me at the end of each lesson. None of this is overly elaborate, just lists. As I add blues standard songs to my skill set I'll start another list.
Last Edited by SmokeJS on Dec 17, 2013 6:22 AM
Re: Motivational Tips Yeah, might be a touch elaborate but 35 years of engineering work will do that to you. Maybe the lesson, if there is a valid one, is don't wander aimlessly at first but be somewhat systematic to keep progressing. Might help understanding strengths and weaknesses as practicing what we're already good at won't move us forward. PS: I'd like to hear more from SteamrollinStan!
Last Edited by SmokeJS on Dec 17, 2013 1:13 PM
I keep a practice notebook. There are three main parts: 1) notes from my lessons. When I'm watching an instructional video or lesson, I'll jot down ideas. 2) weekly goals. I do this so I can remain focused. This week, for example, it's : -practice Dave Barrett song "Feelin' for the Blues" -practice bending in isolation and in context -work on Jon Gindick's "Good Morning" lick -play to a metronome -chapter 5 of Gindick's "Rock N Blues" harmonica
3)In a folder in the back, I stuff all my transcriptions and print outs.
It's useful to be organized. Tracking progress and constant reflection are key to improvement.
P.S. I second the notion that we all need more admonishment and scolding from Steamrollin' Stan to be original "for once".
Last Edited by Mirco on Dec 17, 2013 3:21 PM
I haven't posted for quite sometime but I keep dropping in to see what's happening and this is a great thread. I lost my job a while ago and while some people find solace in "the blues" I'm afraid it took me the other way and I lost a lot of interest in my harmonicas. Anyway, I'm back in work now and happy to say I've got my box of harps out of the cupboard and I'm starting over. I can still get a tune out of them, can still bend 3 draw and 4 draw quite easily and am nearly there on the 2 draw too. I bought some intermediate lessons from Adam a couple of years ago now and that's what I'm using as my target to get back in the game.
I'll keep my eye on this thread. It's good to be back ---------- For sure, an old dog can learn new tricks
Greystonesman - welcome on board. Good that you are back in work and playing harp again. I think it's doubly hard starting over after a break, so hopefully you'll get some encouragement here to keep at it.
The purpose of this thread is to share where we are at, rather than just getting answers to questions - that's for the main forum. So I urge you to post with your progress.
Smoke, Mirco - well, I'm going to have to up my game with the notebook thing. And short term goals - yes you are right that's the way, I'm going to do that. I've got this vision that if you plug away, learning and practising new things for long enough, you'll emerge as a harp player in N years time. But you've got to keep the conveyor belt running.
Ok, what I'm going to do right from now is work out a 'riff a day', write them down, then at the end of the week pick two to practise and include when I play out. Sorry Stan, but some of them I'm going to lift from records :) Although not just from harp, that's one of Adam's best bits of sage advice, listen to other instruments too.
Smoke - as an engineer I hope you'll appreciate that: goals with a measurable outcome!? 'Did I Play a New Riff - Yes/No'? :-)
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Dec 18, 2013 12:37 AM
Re: Groove There's another thread on this forum where the discussion is about chord tone soloing v chord scale soloing. The original premise was that beginning improvisers should only use chord tones. That says to me improvise using only the root, third, fifth and flat seven. Presumably those notes from the I chord could be used over the entire progression but changing the notes to match the chord would be equally valid.
The thread then goes on to say it's the groove that's important. So my question is does anyone have a chord tone solo that grooves I can try it out? Perhaps a listening recommendation or a written out example?
Last Edited by SmokeJS on Dec 18, 2013 1:01 PM
A riff a day is pretty ambitious. I am working a riff a week. When I learn a riff, I experiment with it. I try to figure out how it might fit into a 12 bar blues and how it might match the changes. I try to present the notes in different ways. I figured that a week's worth of repetition would be enough to get it ingrained in my head. I like your idea of picking two riffs a week and playing them out.
NEW TOPIC: Adam has designated this a beginner's thread, so we all must consider ourselves beginners. It's really been undefined, though. How do you rate your abilities? How long have you been playing?
I have been playing a little over a year. I got my start through introductory books by David Harp and some videos by JP Allen. After a few months, I got some of Adam's beginner level videos and a couple of Jon Gindick books. Back in June, I started lessons through David Barrett's bluesharmonica.com.
Recently, I have begun playing out a blues jams and open mikes, which was a significant milestone in my playing. I'm also cementing the bends on 1-6. Bending is what separates the beginner from the intermediate, or so I've heard. So I will probably be kicked off of this thread in short order.
Re: Bending Problems The definition of beginner for the puposes of this very varied thread might well be made in comparison to the many pros and highly qualified people who often contribute to the forum in general. I'm not concerned about the beginner definiton when compared to those individuals seeing as my overall plan will likely take 5 years to complete.
One of my biggest issues as a beginner is bending. I can hit all the bends outside of a musical context but when a bent note is needed in a musical passage it becomes hit and miss. The main culprit is nose leakage. With my nasal passage well closed off I can be okay but otherwise forget it. Any helpful hints out there that's working for you.
Last Edited by SmokeJS on Dec 18, 2013 3:04 PM
"How do you rate your abilities? How long have you been playing?" Well, I've been playing since 2007 but after hearing some of the pro's I still consider myself to be a beginner. I'm a slow learner, can't retain theory, got stuck in 2nd position and feel more at home reading this beginners thread. I have some videos in my profile but it's the best that I've been able to do so far.
Mirco - Well, I got three new riffs just from Kingley's excellent video on the Harp Attack thread! You are right though, that's too much to learn and play out, hence just picking a couple. But I've got a record of them for later.
Re 'Who is a beginner' - this thread isn't meant to match the AG definitions of beginner/intermediate/advanced etc. So unless you consider yourself an established musician, then please keep posting here. Well, posting things here of interest to fellow learners.
I think that beginners must also post on the main forum, if they have a question best answered by the experienced players.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Dec 18, 2013 2:39 PM
I just got a Sonnyboys Mojo harp from Ben Hewlett's shop in the UK. Having read on this forum about Just Intonation I wanted to try it. There is a demo of it by Ben in the video in the link below. Acoustically the chords are much cleaner but when you play it through an amp with some distortion, what a difference. In the recording I'm first playing double stops on the Mojo, and there are clear difference tones - the extra low notes. Then the noisy racket afterwards is the same thing played on a Harpmaster.
Smoke - Specifically about the nose problem. Just from my own experience, my son had the same thing. We read up about it and the solution in his case was to take conscious control of his soft palate. You open/close the palate automatically when forming certain sounds. I can't remember the exact things now, and don't shoot me, but it was e.g.
Saying 'n' your palate is open - air through nose. Saying 't' your palate is closed - no air through nose!
So he went round the house saying 'n' and 't' or whatever it was, and that cured it after a bit.
I understand you are supposed to let air through your nose sometimes, evening out draw and blow pressures. Or maybe not, who knows. It might be worth inviting in a teacher at this point, if they are interested in commenting.
Re Bending - General
Just re-heating what I've read on the forum the advice has been: - Separate the physical from the musical, i.e. practise the physical bending on it's own. - Practice intonation by playing while sitting at the piano, with a tuner, playing scales and playing tunes that incorporate the bent notes so you can train your ear. I hope this helps.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Dec 18, 2013 11:35 PM
I have a issues with bending. Like Smoke, hitting the bent right off in a musical passage is a challenge. I also struggle with my ability to bend the same way across my harps. I seem to have trouble w/some bends on, for example, the A harp, then can bend that hole fine on the C harp, but can't bend as well on some other hole. Is this a need to adjust the gapping on these other harps?
Re: Riffs
I'm always looking for riffs to cover. Where does everyone get these? I've found some on youtube.... Do you guys pick them up from songs? I work to try to pick up something from another instrument as well. I think input on this point would be helpful.
Re: Who is a beginner
My thought on this, if you consider yourself a beginner and are reading this thread..... then you are a beginner (whatever you abilities are).
Re: Riffs On the main forum you'll find experienced and/or expert players who recommend that musicians should use their ears to pick up riffs. While this is great in theory it can be a very frustrating practice for those who don't already have a basic riff vocabulary and aren't blessed with the natural talent of one of the Walters. A little outside help might get things moving so that using our ears later becomes practical down the road. To that end I've got on order a book/cd titled 100 Authentic Blues Harmonica Riffs by Steve Cohen. It's not yet published/available but is coming in 2014. A riff every week will soon add up.
Last Edited by SmokeJS on Dec 19, 2013 9:36 AM
I have heard great things about the riffs lessons available from Ronnie Shellist at: http://www.harmonica123.com/download-lessons.html
Also, a little bit of music theory goes a long way to help you in creating your own riffs. When you know what notes are correct, you can compose riffs using those notes (and using the other notes as passing tones). For the basics, I'd recommend "Rock N Blues Harmonica" by Jon Gindick.
Bending: LumberjackShark, bending is different on different keys of harmonica. For example, the 3 draw on a C harp is a B, but a 3 draw on an A is a G#. Naturally, bending these two different notes should feel different.
Achieving a proper bend is about your embouchure and the position of your tongue in the mouth. You're actually tuning your mouth to the proper note.
LumberjackShark - I agree with Mirco, that the same bends do feel different on different harps and that's normal. And according to the teacher I went to see, some students find bending on low harps easier than high, and some vice versa.
Just to mention again though not to rule out that improving the gapping may be a factor too. Beginners are always, always told it's them not the harp. With the good reason that is probably is true much of the time. But I've got personal experience that sometimes it is the instrument.
Re: Gapping I think MindTheGap is correct when indicating 'sometimes' it's the harp.
My belief is if you're serious about becoming the best harp player you can be then play the best harps you can afford. If you're not playing with others then a few good harps in popular keys might be of greater value than a full set of poorer quality harps.
I play Special 20's. Not very expensive harps but many of mine have been fully customized by Andrew Zajac aka arzajac on this site. When I play Andrew's harps I know any issues are on me. A good harp can last a very long time with reasonable care so I see them as an investment.
Last Edited by SmokeJS on Dec 19, 2013 4:18 PM
This thread's gonna get a bit long and disjointed before too long. Do you think it's time for Adam to start a unique forum for players new to the Blues Harp?
tooka - Yes. The idea of this thread was to test the water without much effort. Adam said he would like to set up a separate forum - he is committed with end-of-term work at the minute.
SmokeJS. I think you are spot on there. One of the great things about the harp is that pro-quality instruments are within reach of the beginner. The normal advice for music students is 'get the best you can afford' but for other instruments that means a good quality student model. My understanding (from arzajac) is that a customised SP20 is, put simply, as good as a harp can be. It's not as if you can spend and extra $N and get the next one up.
I have read advice along the lines of, 'beginners won't benefit from a custom harp.' That may be true for their playing i.e. you don't need a harp set up for overblows if you are not overblowing, but what it does do specifically is remove the doubt about whether problems are 'you or the instrument'. As you say.
This is one of the things I wished I'd know that when I started out. The info was out there, but implicit rather than explicit.
BTW this is my understanding - if you think that's not the case - wade in!
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Dec 19, 2013 11:20 PM
Not all of my Special 20's are fully customized by arzajac (Andrew). Some I've worked on myself. They don't play like Andrew's custom harps but they can be as good as the best new out of a box harp and that can be a big improvement. A 3 hour group lesson with Andrew took much of the mystery out of harp construction, air tightness, tuning, and reed shaping and gapping. But i was fortunate that Andrew is only a couple of hours drive away and he set up the course. If he does it again I'll be sure to attend.
Last Edited by SmokeJS on Dec 20, 2013 4:07 AM
Someone recently told me about the book "Bluesify your Melody" by Jon Gindick. This book gives first position, 2nd position, and upper register tabs on ninety everyday harp songs (things like gospel songs, patriotic songs, children's, Christmas). I think this could be really good for bending. Since you know the song already, and the exact bend is required to make it sound right, this will really force you to work on those bends in context.
In addition, I think it will teach how to make any song sound bluesy. And don't forget: whenever someone learns you play harmonica, the first thing they want to hear is a melody. You can play some really cool bluesy thing, but the average listener tires of that quick.
Jon Gindick, by the way, produces great books and materials. Jon's philosophy is to teach people to make great music with the abilities they have. He teaches basic ideas that you can use to jam immediately. It's a refreshing change of pace because I know that I often get hung up on, and frustrated with, technique.
JP Allen is another great teacher for beginners. He has tons of videos on YouTube, and he'll send you more if you sign up for his newsletter.
This is one I was watching last night, on how to hold the harmonica and produce a good wah. Although I have been playing a year, I still need to be reminded of these things. Especially since most of my learning materials are focused on esoteric harmonica technique.
I am concerned about my insipid acoustic tone, so I had an interesting lesson where the topic was 'not sounding like a stylophone when playing single notes'. The stylophone has a single unwavering tone, with the option of adding sickly vibrato. We explored all the musical dynamics that you might like to include as well as the ubiquitous vibrato - articulation, envelope, rhythm, speed, timbre. One of the most interesting ideas was consciously using different letter sounds for articulation, t and k of course but others e.g. 'ch', 's' and 'b'.
One of the features of a beautiful sound, e.g. a single piano note, is that the timbre changes over time. It seems like a good thing to apply that to harp, and we are already equipped to do that by using different word sounds.
We applied this to Amazing Grace which is often used as a tune for playing expressively, and it has long notes. Maybe we could have a 'post your Amazing Grace' show and tell, if anyone feels bold enough. But with the purpose of sharing ideas rather than a competition.
Like the harp, the stylophone IS great for glissando :-)
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Dec 22, 2013 12:21 AM
Here is Amazing Grace where I'm using the word 'Zwwooor' (as in 'war') to try to shape the timbre of the long notes. And trying to avoid sickly vibrato but not quite managing to.
With 'Zwwoor' I can feel my larynx dropping, which is what singers are supposed to do, so I think it ought to be good for harp too.
Thanks for posting your song, MindTheGap. I enjoyed listening to it. I don't have a lot in the way of feedback.
Good solid single notes, and the use of dips on some of the notes adds some nice variety.
Maybe something we can do in the beginner's thread is studies of different songs-- pick a short, simple public domain song every so often and then upload our versions of it?
I can play a few tricks, and I play in a jam, but I cant make good music. I think that is another way to rank as a beginner: can you play "music" (not just notes).
I dont think that a separate forum would be a good idea, beacause in this thread there is dialogue. In a new forum there will be 10 topics a week about bending and no dialogue. Besides, I bet that the good players (or at least intermediate players) read this thread as well.
Mirco - Thanks for your comment. I'm not really looking for feedback as such, more sharing some info from a lesson. That is clip trying to get some timbre variety without using vibrato and wah wah.
My interest here is to find out what other people are doing in their lessons, swapping tips and interesting ideas. At whatever level they find themselves at the minute.
I like your idea of people uploading stuff - a bit of encouragement between ourselves. When your learning piano, you don't wait until you are good enough to play in public before being heard by other students.
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Dec 22, 2013 3:20 PM
rogonzab - You make a good point, the dialogue is important and I'm hoping more will pitch in. I think there is a practical limit to a single thread though. Needs some thought. Are you yourself finding the dialogue useful?
Would you mind saying something about your experience with jams? I'm interested in that.
I read this thread and is very usefull to me, and that is because there is a conversation going on and not just separates Q&A, that is the beauty of this thread, is just like a bar talk.
Jams: Jams are a funny thing. I play in a street jam, so there is no PA, and the audience stay for a song or two and no more. WE play on saturday for a few hours and we are about 3-4 harp players in a good day.
The funny thing is that when I play all I can hear is how bad I am, how many time screw up the timing, how many times I am out of tune, how many time I lost the melody of the song, and so on. But (and this is the important) to he audience I am the best harp player in the universe, even better than Bob Dylan!.
You can screw up in a Jam (that is the idea) but the important thing is to continue playing, and the best part is that you alway hear the audience claping at the end of the song (and the coins jumping in the hat)and that should alway make you feel good.
Playing in a Jam is important, you learn no just to improv in a song, you learn how t improv in a situation.
Now I am looking to play whit a guitar player and make our own songs or covers, because the problem whit jams are that they exist to let you play your big solo, so there is no songs, just solos. I dont like that too much.
Lesson: to TBird (if you're still out there) and others...
I had my first live lesson on Saturday. Because of where I live, this was my first chance to sit with, and talk with, another person who plays the harp! That alone was worth the drive and cash. The fact he knew his stuff and was sharing it with me, made it more valuable.
It was very laid back. We worked on several things, gave me some homework and we went over on our time! He pointed out I'm hanging on the 5 draw more than I realize when I'm playing around, and to avoid that. We worked on musical phrasing, and bending. I had lots of questions about bending, since I have been concerned about my bends, and it has been such a hot topic in this thread. I am ready for my next lesson!
rogonzab - so you get a lot of hours playing to people then, that's good. And positive feedback including money, extra good! Have you got a guitarist in mind for your duo? Keep us posted.
With my group, we mostly prefer to play actual songs rather than jam, otherwise it can get a bit all the same. Although we do extended instrumentals for some numbers e.g. spoonful, so there are plenty of bars to get mistakes in :-)
LJS - Thanks for the update. Did you work on a song or on improvising? I think bending will always be a hot topic here. The crucial skill, and so difficult to tell someone else how to do it.
I think your experience of not having another harp player around must be quite common.
Awesome Lumberjack! It sounds like our experiences were very similar (including going over-time)! I have listened to a lot of harp playing but had never sat mere feet away from the face of a true professional until my lesson. I agree. That alone is a truly invaluable experience.
MindTheGap - Your Amazing Grace Study is a great example of very precise playing. Those bends sound dead-on. Nice!
Still feeling a bit intimidated about learning Blues Harp? This may help. Takes about ten minutes to get to the meat but it's very useful information. How to learn anything in just 20 hours.
Last Edited by tookatooka on Dec 24, 2013 12:02 PM
Continuing to monitor this thread to see if it eventually becomes enough to deserve its own forum on MBH. I'm certainly hoping that's the case as that will only make the project stronger. But in case that doesn't happen there are alternatives.
Here's a quote from a jbone MBH thread posted January 5, 2013. "With Adam's Permission (Thank you again Adam), I'm pleased to announce a new harmonica page at TalkMusic.com. A fella by name of TennJim recently set the site up, and somehow I find myself with a Moderator badge on my bowling shirt!"
I've dropped in from time to time and have found Talk Music Harmonica to be well posted by a small but keen group. The slant seems to me to be more along the lines of what this thread is calling beginners. The forum design is similar in approach. What it needs is more participants. Accessing a site such as this doesn't take much more effort on the user's part than another MBH forum.
Do you have a direct or at least more accurate link? I tried TalkMusic.com and got nothing..tried to google it and could not find any place that looked like what you were talking about :)
