Rustys26
1 post
Nov 28, 2013
8:30 PM
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Hey all,
New member here. I've been playing every day for about 5 years now and am really starting to get confident with this little thing. I've been playing on Hohner Blues Harps almost the whole time and have had no problems with them. However, I have discovered that they aren't the best and any pro is unlikely to prefer them. I have had some Special 20s over the years and I just dont like them (sorry if that is blasphemy!). Not sure what it is, just don't like them. So I tried out the Golden Melody...they sound and respond great...but I don't like the way they sit in my mouth if that makes sense...they are too fat. So apparently the other go-to harp is of course the Marine Band. I started off on these and made the switch to Blues Harp for some reason. So I got a new Marine Band in D the other month and it felt amazing to play...so I went ahead and got a Bb and A as well.
However, with the Bb and A harps...they don't seem to play as well as the D. Is it common to get a dud in a Marine Band? The Bb I cannot bend on the 3-draw very well at all and they both are difficult to play softly. Might this have something to do with these two Marine Band not having the black paint around the outside of the comb and doesnt have "A440" stamped on the left of the cover plate? I would open it up and mess with the reeds to fix, but I'm afraid I won't be able to close it up due to the nails.
I'm not sure if I should go back to the Blues Harps or keep giving the Marine Bands a chance. What do the experts around these parts figure?
Cheers!
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Gnarly
802 posts
Nov 28, 2013
9:00 PM
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I am no expert, but I do work for Suzuki as their repair guy.
If you like the Marine Band, try the Suzuki Manji. Lots of folks like it.
We have a one-year warranty, best in the business.
Last Edited by Gnarly on Nov 28, 2013 9:01 PM
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Jehosaphat
622 posts
Nov 28, 2013
9:19 PM
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Hi Rusty
Usually this sort of post comes from someone who has been playing for 2months (or weeks)
Nothing wrong with that but after 5 years one has to wonder how to answer your questions.
Any out of the box (OOTB) harmonica will vary in it's responsiveness.Some are great others need work to make 'em play well to your personal resonance/technique.
You need to check out the info available on the 'net re gapping the reeds(amongst other things) to understand what goes into making a responsive Harp.
The quality of Hohner harps has improved immensely over the last few years to the point where their M/B deluxe and Crossover models 'can' be great OOTB.
But a bit of tweaking can improve nearmost any harmonica.
The difference between one key playing 'Amazing'
and a different Key of the same model that is not so..can just be down to your embouchure and technique.
The difference between playing Eg an F harp and one in G is considerable ..you have to adapt your whole resonance chamber to accommodate the range of pitches involved.
Last Edited by Jehosaphat on Nov 28, 2013 9:31 PM
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sonny3
92 posts
Nov 28, 2013
10:20 PM
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have you played lower keys much? They will play a little harder than higher pitched harps.Do you have other A harps that play well?I haven't got a bad marine band in a long time, so I don't think you've got two bad ones.It's not hard to take the off the covers, just slide a thin blade under and pop it up.they will push back down pretty easy.if you lip purse make sure you drop your jaw down on the low end of the harp.
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nacoran
7378 posts
Nov 28, 2013
10:35 PM
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What Sonny3 said. Lower keys can be less responsive on the low end (although they are easier to bend on the high end, in my opinion). If you have played lower harps, it could be you got a dud. I'm a big believer in trying different harps. Nails aren't too bad. Adam's video 016 shows how to take them apart. There are, of course, Deluxe and Crossover models that have screws, if you like the shape of a MB but don't want to deal with nails, but like I said, as long as you are careful, nails aren't too bad.
I actually like the sound of the Blues Harps. (I really like the pre-MS series ones... I'm working on putting together a set of them to play with). The wood tines tear my lips up (I'm not a huge fan, lip wise, of MB's either, although I like their sound).
If you don't like the Sp20's, I'm guessing you wouldn't be fond of Lee Oskars. I'm also fond of Seydels. (I haven't worked my way around to a Suzuki yet, but I'll get there.)
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Rustys26
2 posts
Nov 29, 2013
12:06 AM
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Thanks for all the responses guys.
Gnarly: I will try the Manji...but im too poor for now
I have had at least one harp in all keys for probably 3 years now..most of which have been Blues Bands, then a few sp20s here and there and one golden melody. I play mostly on the lower keys and have multiple of G, A, Bb. I have a Blues band Bb in my pocket everyday. I have no problem with these bends at all on any of my harmonicas except for this new MB in Bb. And they both seem leaky.
The 2 newest MBs do not have the black paint around the 3 sides of comb and instead have HOHNER in white paint on the back like is found on the Blues Harp comb. They also don't have A440 stamped beside the nails and even the engravings on the coverplates dont seem like. Is this some cheap manufacturing substitue or new model or something?
Anyway, I am familiar with re-gapping (although im not too great at it!) but I didn't want to pop this thing apart and not be able to get it back together. Ill check out that video 016.
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SuperBee
1556 posts
Nov 29, 2013
4:54 AM
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yeah you have the new marine bands. theyre cool. generally better than the old ones with the black paint etc.
er..yeah i dunno, sounds like they could use gapping. all the marine bands ive bought lately...i.e. last couple years...played well ootb, but maybe a little tweak dint hurt...
now...you started off saying you played blues harps...but then you said blues bands...there is a lot of difference there.
a blues harp can be a cool harp. i played them for years, before i got hip to the marine band. i still have a couple blues harps i play regularly. nice size, i put aftermarket combs on them, they work well.
a blues band...i dont go there
like you...i didnt like sp20s. ive come around. they are cool. just a marine band with a protruding comb...and non-vented covers...great reeds, great shape...
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sonny3
94 posts
Nov 29, 2013
5:14 AM
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I bought some harpmasters when they were onsale .Really responsive little harp and quite similar to marine bands in size and feel.for some reason the comb sticking out on special 20s didn't agree with me. If you can make a blues band sound good then you can play anything.
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The Iceman
1306 posts
Nov 29, 2013
7:04 AM
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Try them all.
Decide for yourself.
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The Iceman
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groyster1
2476 posts
Nov 29, 2013
7:08 AM
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have to agree with Gnarly....manjis are very comparable to marine bands except in price...more expensive probably because of superior comb...I bought the manjis when price was in low 40s
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Kingley
3296 posts
Nov 29, 2013
7:19 AM
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My advice is to ignore everybody who says buy this brand of harp or that brand of harp. I suggest using your cash to buy a few harps of different makes and models as and when you can afford too. Then you can decide which brand and model you like the best. The only other thing I would suggest is watching the gapping videos on YouTube by Joe Spiers. Then you'll be able to gap your harps to suit your playing style. That will make a huge difference to any harp you play.
Last Edited by Kingley on Nov 29, 2013 7:20 AM
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Slimharp
52 posts
Nov 29, 2013
9:24 AM
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Rusty, Good advice above. Learning to gap is huge. Another fairly simple trick ( especially with harps made with screws although you can do it on MB ) is to seal the comb. Most stock harp are leaky. Take the harp apart ( mark the outside of the reed plates - easy to mix up or reverse ) apply a light coat of sealer ( I use Carmex lip balm and a Q tip ). Dont guber it up. Keep it off of the reeds and reed slots. Put er back together and tighten up. I think you will notice a significant difference. Try a bit higher end harp, just to experience it. If you like Hohner - MB Deluxe, Crossover ( Crossovers are loud and bright ). If you want to get your mind blown, save up and get one of Joe Spiers harps. PS A Bb 3 draw bend - vibrato is a challenge on a stock harp. Welcome to the world of Harmonicas. Next you have to tackle the holy grail of a good rig. Quest on Bro.
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Martin
543 posts
Nov 29, 2013
9:43 AM
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@Rusy: If you´re not foresworn to Hohner you could try Lee Oskar´s. I´m not wild about them myself but at one point in time I found them somewhat easier to deal with. (Barring some techniques that you may or may not be involved with.)
The replaceable reedplates have been a necessity for me from time to time. (Money.)
LO´s may put you down a few rungs on the coolness ladder, but maybe you´re about to discover that the diatonic harmonica is, second to theremin ..., the most expensive instrument to get addicted to.
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Rustys26
3 posts
Nov 29, 2013
5:46 PM
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Thanks again all.
Yes SuperBee, I meant the Blues Harps not Blues Bands.
I have a Bb in both BluesHarp and Sp20 and they play fine. I will watch said gapping videos and try to figure out the correct technique. I have done it before but have ruined a few harps in the past because I don't know what I'm really doing. I'm thinking I should just stick with the BluesHarps though because I have been comfortable with them for years now and maybe with proper gapping as you guys are saying they can be a perfectly good harp?
Cheers!
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blueswannabe
363 posts
Nov 29, 2013
6:30 PM
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I have bought and played manji's, delta frosts, marine bands, special 20's, lee oskars, blues harp and seydels, but I have owned three golden melodies for about 4 years now and I am surprised about how long they have lasted. They are comfortable, very playable, and great sounding.
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jbone
1429 posts
Nov 30, 2013
6:51 AM
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I'm pretty well a confirmed Manji player although I have other brands and models in my case. Even a Marine Band, which is what the Manji replaced for me personally. Manji costs more but what I get is a superior comb that does not swell, vented covers, and superior reeds and plates. That's just me.
I've played everything from Huang star Performer to Suzuki Pro harp and Pure harp. And even the ones you find at Cracker Barrel for 5 bucks.
A lot of how you feel about a harp is what you get used to and how easily it will do what you want it to. Different brands and models will respond differently even in the same key. Different keys definitely need different technique from the player to work as they should. This is why my case holds most key harps, aside from the fact of what I need to be a functional part of a band or project. For me this is also about becoming a well-rounded player, fluent in my instrument.
As you can afford to you owe it to yourself to try out a lot of harps and even perhaps a good optimized or customized harp or two as well. I have had the pleasure of owning a couple. For me though, I want a harp that performs out of the box and lasts a good while even under some frequent use.
Everybody has different opinions and different experience and hence, different wants and needs. Our comments here should give you an overview of what some of us have encountered. You get the pleasure of walking your own path!
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Last Edited by jbone on Nov 30, 2013 11:52 AM
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Slimharp
59 posts
Nov 30, 2013
7:29 AM
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Rusty, if your gonna play with gaping the key is SLOW AND EASY.Over tweak it once and it's done.
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jiceblues
214 posts
Nov 30, 2013
7:50 AM
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If you like Blues Harps , just get aftermarket combs ( acrylic or corian) tu put on them and you'll have good harps . If you want to overblow , maybe the GM's or Xovers will be better .
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ricanefan
131 posts
Nov 30, 2013
8:07 AM
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Opinion-wise, Rusty, you sound very similar to me. I've been very satisfied with Blues Harps, not so much with SP20s, and find GMs clunky but good. The newer MB models, to me, quality-wise, are similar to Blues Harps. Different keys respond differently. My all-time favorites are the older MBs, broken in. There's been a lot written and said that "breaking in" harps is hokem, and science backs them up, but that's the way I feel. I also absolutely love Suzuki ProMasters - they beg to be played fully right from the start, and hold up as well as the best of them. Manji, if I recall, use the same reeds, so I would expect the same quality.
Gnarly - you're no expert, but you work for Suzuki as their repair guy? I hope I don't need repairs! I want an expert!
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Gnarly
803 posts
Nov 30, 2013
8:09 PM
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I am mainly a guitarist and singer, can't do a proper fox chase or train, and am probably better on chrom than short harp. I am mostly self taught, and use altered tunings. I know what I know. I am here to learn.
However, I am getting good results (and reviews) with repairs.
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garry
476 posts
Dec 03, 2013
7:35 PM
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for a little over $30 you can get either a Hohner Special 20, a Suzuki Bluesmaster, or a Seydel Blues Session. get one of each, play them for a while, decide which you like best. they're all great harps, they all sound and feel a little different.
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Ugly Bones Ryan
12 posts
Dec 03, 2013
7:46 PM
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I liked the Hohner Crossover. The reeds are a little fragile and take about a month to break in before you can do overblows and overdraws but I really liked them besides that. If you liked the wood comb of the Blues Harp (which I did) you'll love this bamboo comb.
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Gnarly
808 posts
Dec 04, 2013
6:13 AM
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Aren't the reeds in the crossover the same as in all the other Marine band harps?
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jiceblues
218 posts
Dec 04, 2013
7:26 AM
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if you like Hohner Blues Harp , try the Seydel 1847 Classic .Same as BH , but better :
-comfortable for your lips &mouth
-covers don't rust
Reedplates&reeds don't rust
-good factory gapping for roots music
Good value in time .You get what you pay for .
I like BH's , but the covers rust and you feel like eating old iron .
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atty1chgo
774 posts
Dec 04, 2013
8:41 AM
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All of my harps are Suzuki Manji's, about 10 of them operational, with the exception of two Special 20's in A flat and E, a couple of Deak Harp Marine Bands (C and G) and a Suzuki Firebreath in C with a blown reed (who can repair this harp, please let me know). I have found that the Manji's are bright sounding and durable. My listening ear has not gotten to the point where I can discern subtle differences. I too bought them on the cheap a few years back like groyster.
I find that the extra investment has paid off in less damage to the reed plates over time. I have replaced reed plates in the Manji's, but with more experience it hasn't happened in a while.
I do have one non-Suzuki harp that I am going to replace the reed plates in, and that is a Hohner MS Pro Harp that I bought a while back in the key of A major. It just has the mellowest and warmest tone of all of the A harps I have ever played. It is easy to grip in my hands and just sounds great. When I do, it will be my go-to A harp for sure.
Last Edited by atty1chgo on Dec 04, 2013 8:46 AM
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Gnarly
809 posts
Dec 04, 2013
1:48 PM
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I fix the warranty Suzukis at work (no charge) and the others privately (email in my profile).
I'm an expert LOL
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SuperBee
1564 posts
Dec 04, 2013
2:10 PM
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Yeah Gnarly, same reeds as all the hohner handmades. Great comb on th crossover I agree. I swapped one onto a Deluxe for a while. Definite improvement in that harp. I have 4 crossovers which I try to reserve for gigs. I've done a very little gap tweaking on them, and replaced reeds in 3 of them. I'm hard on 4 draw in D harps especially. Song choice as much as anything.the other two I broke by clumsy impatient attempts to tweak with (poorly) improvised tools.
I'd have more crossovers if money didn't matter. As it is, my kit has 'character'...
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A440
116 posts
Dec 05, 2013
9:22 AM
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I initially started playing with a couple of pre-MS blues harps, back in the 1980s. Like most players, I've tried a range of harps over the years: marine band, blues harp, big river, golden melody, special 20, marine band deluxe, crossover, lee oskar, seydel solist pro, seydel session standard, seydel session steel, suzuki hammond, and hering golden blues. Each is different, with it's own advantages and disadvantages. Some sound better, some play better, some just "feel" better. Some TB easier, some OB easier. Some are better when played acoustic, and some are better when played cupped/amped. And sometimes I prefer a certain model for a certain song, because it suits the song.
But at the end of the day, I have developed three clear preferences (to answer Rusty's question). These are what I use 90% of the time, and the only three models that I continue to buy:
- crossover
- session steel - including some low keys
- special 20 (mostly country tuning)
No surprises here - these are all well-rated across this community and elsewhere. All are excellent pro-level instruments, at 3 different price points.
Last Edited by A440 on Dec 05, 2013 9:31 AM
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bloozefish
140 posts
Dec 05, 2013
11:02 AM
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like many others here, I've tried most of the various harps. For me, the clear favorite are the Seydel 1847s, and I now have nearly a full set. After that, it's pretty much a tie between Special 20s and Delta Frosts, although I have a couple of Lee Oskar minor tuned harps, some Marine Bands.
The 1847s became my favorite after I switched to mostly tongue-blocking. I love the hole spacing and the nice comb.
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