|
Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Sugar Blue Unplugged
Sugar Blue Unplugged
Page:
1
2
atty1chgo
761 posts
Nov 27, 2013
6:15 AM
|
|
boris_plotnikov
906 posts
Nov 27, 2013
10:06 AM
|
He sounds great! I like it.
----------
Excuse my bad English.
My videos.
|
JInx
647 posts
Nov 27, 2013
11:15 AM
|
That dude has a lot of anger in him. Does he still berate the audience for being white? He's honest, I like him.
----------
Sun, sun, sun
Burn, burn, burn
Soon, soon, soon
Moon, moon, moon
|
TheoBurke
518 posts
Nov 27, 2013
12:04 PM
|
This reconfirms my belief that Sugar is a modern master wh has pushed blues harmonica into the 21st century. Even when he's playing acoustically and concentrating on standards, his playing has a fresh personality that reveals what he's listened too--a wide swath of traditional blues styles, swing, bebop jazz, reggae, country--and brings them into play with an improvisor's peculiar genius. I hope these musicians release an album soon.
----------
Ted Burke
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheoBurke?feature=mhee
http://ted-burke.com
tburke4@san.rr.coM
858 274 0882
|
Martin
538 posts
Nov 27, 2013
4:10 PM
|
@Jinx: "That dude has a lot of anger in him. Does he still berate the audience for being white? He's honest, I like him."
Hmm, does this berating include his fellow musicians?
Is Sugar Blue an imbecile?
Honesty can be a virtue, but not always. If he started "berating me for being white", I´d be really honest in return.
|
tmf714
2207 posts
Nov 27, 2013
4:39 PM
|
"Does he still berate the audience for being white?"
I have been to quite a few of his shows starting in 1993-he has never uttered anything to the "white" audience in the way of anger,and has never berated ANYONE in front of me -that's the shows I have personally attended.
@Jinx-you do know his bass player is white don't you?
Last Edited by tmf714 on Nov 27, 2013 4:40 PM
|
tmf714
2208 posts
Nov 27, 2013
4:43 PM
|
And that the bass player is his wife?
Just checking-
|
TheoBurke
520 posts
Nov 27, 2013
4:50 PM
|
http://www.tshirtsbuy.com/T-shirts-6/LT069-dont-make-me-go-all-caps-on-your-shirt.jpg
----------
Ted Burke
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheoBurke?feature=mhee
http://ted-burke.com
tburke4@san.rr.coM
858 274 0882
|
tmf714
2209 posts
Nov 27, 2013
5:11 PM
|
Here is mine Ted-http://deezteez.com/products/middle-finger?SSAID=448431
|
Frank
3394 posts
Nov 27, 2013
5:45 PM
|
I have found the paradox, that if you love until it hurts, there can be no more hurt, only more love.
Mother Teresa
|
FreeWilly
373 posts
Nov 27, 2013
11:48 PM
|
Goes to show that a lot of amplified tone has to do with the acoustic tone. I thought he had too much gain. Turns out he has a really shrill tone all on his own.
On another note: this does not do anything for me. Not only does it not swing, to my ear he's offbeat with most of his fast runs. Guitarplayer doesn't leave space. Meh. Not for me. Unpleasant voice too btw.
|
Joe_L
2404 posts
Nov 28, 2013
12:06 AM
|
I saw Sugar Blue for the first time in 1983. I saw him almost weekly until 1987. During that time period, I never heard him chew out the audience or mention anything about the audience being white.
I was one of the few harp players to attend his jam at the Kingston Mines. It was a complete beginner at the time. He was never anything, but supportive to me. He wasn't a touchy, feely kind of guy, but he was cool.
----------
The Blues Photo Gallery
|
atty1chgo
762 posts
Nov 28, 2013
6:41 AM
|
@ Jlnx - I think the reference is to some interviews that Blue has done with media where he tells white musicians not to forget whose "house" it is - referring to blues music, as in - you don't own it so respect the fact that it is black music first and always. The subject has been heavily discussed on this forum, so you can look it up and revive the discussion if you wish. I thought that the comments at the time were misplaced, given the fact that white music lovers and white musicians have not only supported this great music, but have propped it up and resurrected it and, importantly not co-opted it, despite indifference from black audiences, at least in America. But I totally understand his point of view because of who the man is.
Sugar Blue is a great musician and a loving and fine human being with a great sense of history and knowledge of African-American culture, history, and struggle. He is intense as a New Yorker should be. I wouldn't want him any other way. I just love the guy, and treasure his friendship and musical ability.
Last Edited by atty1chgo on Nov 28, 2013 6:42 AM
|
JInx
651 posts
Nov 28, 2013
10:25 AM
|
I'm sure he is a lovely guy…but there is no doubt he carries (or once did) much resentment in his blues. Maybe he was more comfortable dishing out his angry blues on the upper east side of Manhattan, a favorite yuppie bashing target neighborhood of those who feel slighted. Him being from Harlem the obvious (and not only superficial) comparisons can certainly lead to feelings of disparagement. However, his "you white folk don't know shit about the blues(sic)" diatribe did reveal a very real ignorance in his thinking.
At the time his use of my dollar and my skin as a stage for his personal catharsis, was indeed offensive. But, as I've grown older I can appreciate that we all have demons and it's best to let them out. Evidently Mr. Blue has realized, the money goes the other way when someone has to listen to your shit.
Rave on Sugar Blue
----------
Sun, sun, sun
Burn, burn, burn
Soon, soon, soon
Moon, moon, moon
Last Edited by JInx on Nov 28, 2013 10:43 AM
|
TheoBurke
522 posts
Nov 28, 2013
10:32 AM
|
I've written about music for years and have developed a thick skin when a musician who's skills I admire opines something that is patently or potentially offensive. Some musicians, of course, say things so offensive over a length of time that it over rides whatever pleasure I derive from his or music. Ted Nugent, case in point. Eric Clapton supports an anti-immigration policy in England. Miles Davis has been a rude mofo for decades. In any event, the general rule for me is what they play, not what they say.
----------
Ted Burke
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheoBurke?feature=mhee
http://ted-burke.com
tburke4@san.rr.coM
858 274 0882
|
JInx
654 posts
Nov 28, 2013
1:36 PM
|
If you can't deal with Sugar's blues, that's your problem….sorry bud
----------
Sun, sun, sun
Burn, burn, burn
Soon, soon, soon
Moon, moon, moon
|
timeistight
1434 posts
Nov 28, 2013
2:40 PM
|
Jinx, let me give you the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps you don't realize that the use of quotes implies that the person quote said or wrote those exact words. You can't use them to interpret someone's attitude or to simply ascribe what you believe a person thinks.
I don't believe Sugar Blue ever said or wrote the statement you've quoted above. Unless you can prove me wrong, please remove the erroneous quotation.
Last Edited by timeistight on Nov 28, 2013 5:26 PM
|
atty1chgo
763 posts
Nov 28, 2013
2:43 PM
|
Jlnx - I posted the Chicago Tribune article months ago, and I will post it again. Nowhere in the article is it written what you are alleging, and I haven't seen it written anywhere else.
I have never seen him "berate an audience because they were white". That statement is just a pile of crap.
Respectfully, you should withdraw the allegation. That is what anyone with any integrity about statements that they make would do if they cannot back them up with hard evidence.
What he DID say was:
Sugar Blue a soaring voice for the blues
October 23, 2012|Howard Reich | Arts critic
Last May, during a conference on "Race, Gender & the Blues" at Dominican University, the master harmonica player Sugar Blue addressed the theme in an impassioned, unforgettable soliloquy.
Lamenting that blues increasingly has been expropriated by white performers and entrepreneurs, Blue proclaimed that he refused to stand by and let it happen.
"This is a part of my heritage in which I have great pride," he said, reading his prose-poem to a crowd of scholars, musicians and aficionados. "Paid for in the blood that whips, guns, knives, chains and the branding irons ripped from the bodies of my ancestors as they fought to survive the daily tyrannies in the land of the free, where some men were at liberty to murder, rape and lay claim to all and any they desired.
"From this crucible the blues was born, screaming to the heavens that I will be free, I will be me.
"You cannot and will not take this music, this tradition, this bequest, this cry of freedom and dignity from bloodied, unbowed heads without a struggle."
No statement at the conference matched the ferocity or eloquence of this one, and the enthusiasm of the audience response suggested Blue had put words to what many attendees were feeling. Part of the power of his statement owed to his standing in the field, for he has lived the blues life since the dawning of his career, in the 1960s. He has been heard around the world, most famously via his solo in the Rolling Stones hit "Miss You," and he has battled addiction and its deleterious effects on his career.
Clean for more than a decade, he says, Blue remains as committed to enlightening listeners about the black identity of the blues as he was during the Dominican University conference, when his prose-poem captivated listeners.
"I wrote it after Honeyboy passed," says Blue, 62, referring to the Delta blues legend David "Honeyboy" Edwards, who had spent more than half a century in Chicago before dying last year at 96.
"It seemed to me that there are a lot of people that love the blues but know little about its origins and have no concept as to how closely it is tied to the black experience," adds Blue, who will mark the release of his newest album, the two-CD set "Raw Sugar Blue: Live" with shows Friday and Saturday at Rosa's Lounge, on West Armitage Avenue.
"And it seemed to me that it's very, very important to make a statement about that … because this (music) is of the black experience and always will be. And the fact that it has become universal is a wonderful thing, because it says how important and influential and powerful this music is.
"But it must be remembered that though you are welcome to the house, do not try and take the home. Come on in, visit, enjoy, do your thing. But remember whose house you're in."
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-10-23/entertainment/ct-ent-1024-jazz-sugar-blue-20121024_1_sugar-blue-delta-blues-legend-david-honeyboy-edwards
|
JInx
655 posts
Nov 28, 2013
3:17 PM
|
What can I say, I heard what I heard. I don't hold it against him, like I said, we all got demons. Today, I can appreciate his feelings, 20 years ago I took offense. He said what he said, and I'm willing to bet he has no problem with it. The guy says what he feels, he's an honest straight shooter when it comes to how he feels about his audience.
Call me stupid but any statement like: "the blues is black music" or "bluegrass is white music" is racist, and ignorant.
Edit: @atty1 My experience with Sugar is not from your article, but a show I attended 20 years ago at Manny's Carwash.
----------
Sun, sun, sun
Burn, burn, burn
Soon, soon, soon
Moon, moon, moon
Last Edited by JInx on Nov 28, 2013 3:26 PM
|
JInx
656 posts
Nov 28, 2013
3:25 PM
|
If you guys can't handle my blues experience. I'll move on down the line, and bid you adieu.
----------
Sun, sun, sun
Burn, burn, burn
Soon, soon, soon
Moon, moon, moon
|
Jehosaphat
620 posts
Nov 28, 2013
3:40 PM
|
Well personally i don't a shit about musicians personal opinions on anything,if i did i'd probabaly be listening to very little music.
I like some of Sugars music and have a couple of his CDs but the above clip,no...not for me.
Seemed disjointed and had no groove at all.
Maybe it was one of those you had to be there things.
|
atty1chgo
764 posts
Nov 28, 2013
3:59 PM
|
You are right about the clip above. I think that it is just force of habit to get on these runs which really don't work well with the tempo of the music and the acoustic blues sound. The stuff he did at Hill Country Harmonica II, when he was talking to the group with Adam and playing acoustically, was wicked stuff. I have audio of that entire session and a little bit of video, but I was asked not to post of any of his material without permission, and I haven't. But it was stellar, some of the finest slow acoustic blues I have ever heard. I am sure that he has played that way as well on Wednesday nights at Rosa's Lounge in Chicago, where you can see him for the first 3 weeks next month.
Last Edited by atty1chgo on Nov 28, 2013 4:00 PM
|
Martin
540 posts
Nov 28, 2013
4:27 PM
|
@timeistight: "Jinx: You're in violation of the forum creed against slander unless you can prove that Sugar Blue ever said what you quoted him saying."
"You quoted him. Prove he said it or delete it."
"Jinx, let me give you the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps you don't realize that the use of quotes implies that the person quote said or wrote those exact words."
Where are Jinx´s quotes? (They frequently look like this "".)
Aren´t you getting a bit worked up here?
Relating what someone said during a live concert is one thing, and can be a bit of a toughie to "prove" unless you (illegaly!) recorded it.
My initial question was based on a hope that Jinx was wrong, or maybe twisting it a little.
I recollect (a swampy word) an interview where Sugar B said something along the line that being black gave you a sort of privileged understanding of the blues -- but was that the music (notes, chords, rhythms), or the "culture"? (Whatever that is: there´s no "blues culture".) I honestly don´t remember. (Heard too much crap in that area.)
He was wrong anyways. He may have become a bit more nuanced with time -- and possibly learning.
|
nacoran
7373 posts
Nov 28, 2013
4:31 PM
|
JInx, for the record, can you clarify if you are talking about the article or something else you heard personally?
I've read the article, and while I'd argue the fine points of his statements implications with him, I wouldn't read it the way you seem to be.
edit: sorry, didn't see the edit.
----------
Nate
Facebook
Thread Organizer (A list of all sorts of useful threads)
Last Edited by nacoran on Nov 28, 2013 4:47 PM
|
tmf714
2217 posts
Nov 28, 2013
4:33 PM
|
"If you guys can't handle my blues experience. I'll move on down the line, and bid you adieu.
----------"
Do us all a favor
|
Martin
541 posts
Nov 28, 2013
4:38 PM
|
@nacoran: Jinx says loud and clear that it was something he heard at a live concert.
|
tmf714
2218 posts
Nov 28, 2013
4:46 PM
|
|
nacoran
7374 posts
Nov 28, 2013
5:09 PM
|
""If you guys can't handle my blues experience. I'll move on down the line, and bid you adieu.
----------"
Do us all a favor"- Tmf714
Okay, that crosses the line. Tm, that's a warning. For the record, in your effort to attack JInx's quotations you have, with no notice of the irony, misquoted JInx. The quotation marks you saw were Martin quoting JInx. JInx made a statement based on something he heard (I wasn't there, I'm not going to argue that point, and certainly because you have been to other shows doesn't mean that at this one show Sugar Blue didn't say something). You also seem to have missed the part of the forum creed about giving people the benefit of the doubt. Don't assume malice just because someone says something you disagree with. If you have a squabble on the forum, email us, and then walk away and let us deal with it.
Martin, in haste to type something to try to calm people down, I missed the edit. I apologize.
Happy Thanksgiving guys.
----------
Nate
Facebook
Thread Organizer (A list of all sorts of useful threads)
|
atty1chgo
765 posts
Nov 28, 2013
5:22 PM
|
Thanks for posting the video. Now if there could be found a way to get some interest in the blues among African Americans, both as fans and musicians, instead of the utter crap that the young people listen to, and so-called "ownership" of the blues can be maintained. If in fact the practices in the industry described are occurring, then the white fans who don't agree with this sort of nonsense should be better informed in order to put pressure on these people.
I posted awhile back that I noticed, while on the blues cruise, not that heritage artists were not on the cruise, they were in force, but I noticed that white fans flocked to the white acts, which bothered me. So it is not just the promoters, it is the fans.
But to the point, I think that white harmonica players have a great deference for the black harmonica giants. We aren't trying to take over a fucking thing. We just love to play. If the promoters are this racist, they have to be put in their place with the power of the dollar. But then again, the amount of so-called heritage blues artists are dwindling, especially in the area of harmonica.
I know I have thrown a lot of thoughts out here. There needs to be a broader based discussion of these issues across the blues community.
Last Edited by atty1chgo on Nov 28, 2013 5:23 PM
|
tmf714
2219 posts
Nov 28, 2013
5:23 PM
|
Ah-Nate-
Just so happens I was at that Mannys show-where I first met Sugar-he never said anything like that.
I was there for the whole show-so I have the right to say the man is wrong. He gave me his autograph,and we chatted for quite a while.You have to be careful with the content you post on the internet-you never know who may be reading it -and as it turns out,may have actually attended the event in question.
For the record-go back and read-that was Jinx legit response-not a quote-in reference to the "do us all a favor"
Last Edited by tmf714 on Nov 28, 2013 5:30 PM
|
timeistight
1435 posts
Nov 28, 2013
5:23 PM
|
Jinx, I didn't realize that this was referring to a twenty-year old live performance. I thought you were extrapolating from his remarks from the "Race, Gender & the Blues" conference. I apologize for my hasty conclusion.
|
kudzurunner
4405 posts
Nov 28, 2013
5:33 PM
|
Sugar Blue's racial politics are complex, not simple, but a white Chicago harmonica player of considerable repute told me half a dozen years ago that Sugar, in the old days, used to rag on him for being a white guy playing the blues. Sugar did a lot of things back in those days, and he doesn't do some of them anymore.
I believe that Jinx heard what he heard, but I also believe Joe L. and others who testify that they've never heard anything like that. Sugar is a passionate guy and passionate people, when pushed by certain situations, sometimes let fly.
Obviously Sugar Blue is a friend of this forum--or, more precisely, I consider him a friend of this website, and of Hill Country Harmonica, where he headlined several years ago, and you may be sure that I would not countenance slander on this forum if I thought that's what I was seeing.
I don't for the life of me see what Sugar Blue's racial attitudes of 20 years ago have to do with this thread, so I would encourage everybody inclined to get back to the business of discussing his new musical project.
Last Edited by kudzurunner on Nov 28, 2013 5:36 PM
|
atty1chgo
766 posts
Nov 28, 2013
5:43 PM
|
I guess I get more than a little pissed off to hear someone say that Blue "has a lot of anger in him" based on an incident which occurred 30 years ago.
Quite frankly, and I grew up in a very racist area of South Side Chicago, the infamous Marquette Park neighborhood (where MLK got hit in the head with a rock when he marched there in 1966), the tone that I hear from jlnx is a white ethnic viewpoint, well scrubbed for its presentation here. I've heard it all my life.
And when jlnx says "But, as I've grown older I can appreciate that we all have demons and it's best to let them out. Evidently Mr. Blue has realized, the money goes the other way when someone has to listen to your shit", he obviously is of the opinion that Sugar Blue toned it down for economic expediency, but not because he believed the statement was wrong. That kind of conclusion could be applied to him too. The offense that jlnx felt 30 years ago was probably a gut racial reflex attibutable to his youth, and his telling us that he now, in effect, UNDERSTANDS (my emphasis) Sugar Blue, that doesn't necessarily mean that the racial reflex is entirely gone from him either.
Oh and BTW, I have never seen or heard a black bluegrass musician, have you? Just sayin'.
|
tmf714
2220 posts
Nov 28, 2013
5:49 PM
|
|
nacoran
7375 posts
Nov 28, 2013
5:51 PM
|
And in my effort to type quickly, I combined two comments and attributed them wrong.
Tm, disregard most of what I said, except the beginning. You certainly have the right to disagree with what he said, and like I said, I'm not going to tackle the issue of veracity, but the part of your statement, the "do us all a favor" part, was across the line, and the middle finger shirt link as well.
"Please refrain from flaming, insulting, or otherwise impugning the intelligence or good intentions of your fellow board members,"- Forum Creed
----------
Nate
Facebook
Thread Organizer (A list of all sorts of useful threads)
|
Joe_L
2405 posts
Nov 28, 2013
6:57 PM
|
@atty1chgo - During those times, that was a dangerous neighborhood to be in, if you were black. I grew up near there during the 60's and early 70's. When the schools in Gage Park were being "integrated", I saw some seriously messed stuff go down that has stuck with me for life. I can't imagine what it was like for the black kids that got stuck going to those schools. They were just little kids and the stuff those poor kids had to endure at the hands of adults is heart breaking.
The Blues Brothers movie really aggravated me. They made light of the American Nazi Party that was very active in that area. Those people terrorized those poor kids whose only sin is the color of their skin. The Nazi's that were active in that neighborhood were evil.
People don't have an appreciation for the degree of racism that existed back then. Seeing it first hand leaves a lasting impression on a person, if they possess any degree of compassion or sensitivity for their fellow man regardless of the color of their skin.
----------
The Blues Photo Gallery
|
JInx
657 posts
Nov 28, 2013
7:13 PM
|
@atty1chgo --
"Oh and BTW, I have never seen or heard a black bluegrass musician, have you? Just saying'"
-atty1chgo --
----------
Sun, sun, sun
Burn, burn, burn
Soon, soon, soon
Moon, moon, moon
Last Edited by JInx on Nov 28, 2013 7:20 PM
|
atty1chgo
767 posts
Nov 29, 2013
5:06 AM
|
I agree with your comments, Joe L. I was 9 years old and I was there when Dr. King marched down 67th Street. When he got to about where the playground is, the people were 10-15 deep on each side, it was crazy. In retrospect, I understand now both sides of the struggle in a way. The best way to do things would have been gradual integration that didn't end up in white flight. Because as you know, Marquette Park is one of the worst crime-ridden drug dealing neighborhoods in the city now, when it was the quietest, crime-free area (albeit all white) in the city in the 50's and 60's. It really is a disgrace in many ways. The north side neighborhoods did not become this way because the blacks were concentrated on the South and West Sides. But back to the topic.....
Watching parts of the video below forces me to ask which white musicians do not respect where the music came from, and which ones do not understand the heritage, and which ones want to take it over as their own? As Sugar Blue did in the video above where he called out Bruce Iglauer of Alligator Records, if this is a serious matter, then maybe people have to be called out to start turning the tide. It sure isn't Eric Clapton, probably the greatest blues guitarist on the planet-
Last Edited by atty1chgo on Nov 29, 2013 5:19 AM
|
atty1chgo
768 posts
Nov 29, 2013
5:10 AM
|
@ jlnx - I forgot about them. I saw them on the blues cruise. They aren't strictly bluegrass, but I'll give you this one.
Sorry, my mistake. That's one group. Next one?
|
kudzurunner
4406 posts
Nov 29, 2013
5:50 AM
|
@atty1chgo: With all due respect, on the question of the supposed non-existence of "black bluegrass musicians," you're completely, demonstrably wrong. More wrong, I'd say, than on any other issue where you've expressed an opinion on this forum.
The foundation of bluegrass is the black guitarist Arnold Schultz, the so-called "Godfather of Bluegrass."
http://bluegrasstoday.com/ibmm-honors-the-godfather/
He's the guy who taught Bill Monroe.
You should pick up a copy of the edited collection HIDDEN IN THE MIX: THE AFRICAN AMERICAN PRESENCE IN COUNTRY MUSIC. (Duke UP). It has several essays that explore the black fiddling and banjo traditions that feed directly into bluegrass.
You might also want to pick up Otis Taylor's CD, RECAPTURING THE BANJO. There's a lot of resentment--justifiable resentment--among certain black blues and old-time music players about the way in which the crucial, extensive black presence in country, bluegrass, and old-time music has been erased.
http://www.amazon.com/Recapturing-Banjo-Otis-Taylor/dp/B0019EF4Q6
Tony Thomas is one important intellectual force behind the movement. If you google "Tony Thomas bluegrass," you'll find out a lot about him and his views:
https://www.google.com/#q=tony+thomas+bluegrass
One of the links takes you to a page in which you'll find an essay by him entitled "African American bluegrass."
http://unitybluegrass.com/afro_bg.htm
You're certainly not alone in not knowing about this stuff. I suspect many members of this forum didn't know. Most of the public doesn't know.
Last Edited by kudzurunner on Nov 29, 2013 5:52 AM
|
atty1chgo
769 posts
Nov 29, 2013
6:47 AM
|
Thanks for the heads up, kudzurunner. I hadn't done any research on the subject. It's an eye opener. I guess that historical reality means that black blues musicians have a right to fear their music being hijacked, because in the case of bluegrass, it appears to have happened.
But to your point, to state that their (black) presence has been "erased" within country and old-time music (in the context of this discussion) denotes a believe that this is some sort of negative and affirmative act by those who now dominate the genre. I don't think that this can be alluded to some sort of musical conspiracy heist. They love the music and play it extensively. If black musicians do not play it, if black fans are not drawn to it, it doesn't get carried on in the culture, and loses its place within it. OK, maybe SOME of the loss, if we want to call it that, is because of prejudice in promotion and exposure of artists. But as an example, classical music does not have a following among white people (or white wealthy people) just because they can afford to go to the concert hall. To cry foul every time historically African American cultural aspects are assimilated by white or other cultures is a victimization mindset. With all due respect, blame (if that is the proper word) should be also laid at the doorstep of persons who claim that heritage and culture as their own, and do nothing to preserve it.
Even if you take the Carolina Chocolate Drops as an example, despite their musical appeal, they are a in a narrow niche: a throwback group playing historically black musical styles (with new musical ideas infused) and - dare I say it - to a largely young WHITE audience and fan base. Nothing more to be said.
As to the polka reference stated by Matt Skoller in the video clip: go on RFD TV on cable and watch something called "Mollie B's Polka Party" a fascinating polka show which highlights contemporary polka music. Lots of old white folks there, but also a budding group of young people. And from where? Texas, Oklahoma, the breadbasket states as well as the northern Midwestern states like Minnesota, Michigan, Wisconsin etc where many Polish, Slovak, German and Norwegian immigrants settled into this country to farm, and brought their music with them. I even saw a Mexican band playing polka on there. This music is being PRESERVED with enthusiasm by its cultures. If there were a black polka group out there, they would be applauded just the same.
But to his point, does a promoter go with a group that will draw and make the show profitable or solvent, or adhere to political correctness and include groups that may not be as popular but are ethnically PC in order to please the carriers of the torch? There are valid points to be made that black blues groups get shut out of gigs and festivals, but will their inclusion draw black fans to the show? Black music is dominated by hip hop, rap, that Muzak called contemporary black music, and even gospel music more than the blues, it seems. Correct me if I am wrong.
One man or woman's junk (speaking in a broad sense) is another man or woman's treasure. It doesn't matter what ethnic culture is discussed. If it isn't fostered and promoted from within, it will dissipate.
p.s. " More wrong, I'd say, than on any other issue where you've expressed an opinion on this forum."
That is either an awkwardly written sentence or an opinion that I am wrong on more than one issue often. I guess I don't see it that way. :)
Last Edited by atty1chgo on Nov 29, 2013 7:17 AM
|
The Iceman
1305 posts
Nov 29, 2013
7:02 AM
|
No one can monitor an artist's complete live performance over the years, including banter between songs.
Everyone has an off night..I saw Traffic in the late 60's and they sounded terrible that night, so I concluded they were a crappy band based on that one experience.
Led Zep also sounded terrible their first tour when I saw them at the Grande Ballroom in Detroit.
So, no one is perfect and everyone is entitled to an off night.
----------
The Iceman
|
Hondo
259 posts
Nov 29, 2013
7:55 AM
|
My wife and I spend a lot of our free time attending Blues concerts and festivals because we fell in love with the music and the entire vibe surrounding it. Yes, I know where it comes from and I start by giving big respect when I get the opportunity to meet or play with folks like Billy, Willie Smith, Blind Ms. Morris, etc. But if their younger generations have gone onto creating another style and middle aged white people take it up, I can't help that. Yes, there are a lot of us at the festivals but we are also breaking bread and enjoying (and buying) the music as one with other races and cultures from various countries.
In that symposium video-
I see a lot of defiance in Sugar
I have never heard of the woman who complained about the 3 white women and 1 black woman being nominated. Maybe she just isn't that good.
As far as the Blues music industry stifling black artists- That is a travesty, if true.
Billy was eloquent, as usual (without the bitter attitude of some).
I think the part about Blues musicians not getting their share of the profits is most likely in all genres of the industry. Not a race thing.
Learning to play it doesn't mean that I want to take it over. I just want to enjoy it at on a larger scale.
|
kudzurunner
4407 posts
Nov 29, 2013
8:28 AM
|
@atty1chgo: I mean you're completely wrong on the issue of whether black bluegrass musicians actually exist. You're 100% wrong; comprehensively wrong.
I may not always agree with your other pronouncements, although I agree with many. There's such a thing as being slightly wrong; partially wrong. In this case, you're simply mistaken. Especially in light of the certainty and dismissiveness with which you offered your mistaken claim, I thought it was important to emphasize the completeness of your error.
You're quite right, in your later walkback, about the relative lack of a contemporary black audience for bluegrass. That's a different issue, but it's an important issue.
I'll urge forum members to check out Tony Thomas's article, AFRICAN AMERICAN BLUEGRASS. It's got a lot of useful hyperlinks.
http://unitybluegrass.com/afro_bg.htm
Tony is an interesting character. He's an Amazon Top 500 reviewer and seems to have read every book ever written about American music.
Deford Bailey, African American harmonica player, wasn't exactly a bluegrass player, but he played what he called "black hillbilly music" and he was the first instrumental star of the Grand Ol' Opry.
Last Edited by kudzurunner on Nov 29, 2013 8:29 AM
|
JInx
659 posts
Nov 29, 2013
12:56 PM
|
Sugar is very open about his motivations. I think whether he displayed them today or 20 years ago, it is completely appropriate to discuss them on this forum. There are plenty of threads discussing the history, background and origins of the blues…we have literally written books on the matter. Sugar is a Top 10-All Time Great, how can we not discuss him?
As we read in "Seems Like Murder Here" , violence, hatred, ignorance and fear all helped to form the "blues subject". Sugar is shining example of this thesis as is evidenced in his attitudes.
Check out these Sugar Blue quotes from an interview by Dan The Music Guy, Internet Cafe Scranton Pa.
"My playing music is like a contract between a whore and a john. I don't kiss nobody, I don't have to like nobody . I do what I do out of fear and self-motivation, Like the Jews during World War II. I'm a product of America from sea to bloody sea! I play the Blues to make me feel better and release pressure. It keeps me from taking someone's life.If it makes anyone else feel good ? so be it."
"I don't believe in Spirit 'cause it's been used as an assault weapon on people, a bloody cross pushed through the back of indigenous people all over the world. I don't believe anymore, 'cause there's nothing to believe in!" He continued "Cash money, honey! That's what makes me feel good! For good or bad it's all cash driven."
Why did he move to Europe? ""Probably saved my life and others, if I hadn't moved I probably would have killed someone ? or been killed."
Sugar has a lot of anger in him. To understand his blues, you've got to understand that. IMHO
----------
Sun, sun, sun
Burn, burn, burn
Soon, soon, soon
Moon, moon, moon
Last Edited by JInx on Nov 29, 2013 1:43 PM
|
shanester
576 posts
Nov 29, 2013
2:30 PM
|
I think Sugar is attempting to brand himself and establish his legitimacy as a rightful carrier of the torch of the ”real blues” with statements like these, ultimately out to impress an audience.
Its all about the money, honey!
PS: Everyone is indigenous to somewhere, even us white devils!
Some want transformation, many find comfort in the status quo, even as a victim!
----------
Shane,
"The Possum Whisperer"
Shane's Cloud
1shanester
Last Edited by shanester on Nov 29, 2013 3:31 PM
|
Frank
3408 posts
Nov 29, 2013
3:10 PM
|
“Yeah, I love being famous. It's almost like being white, y'know?”
? Chris Rock
|
Joe_L
2406 posts
Nov 29, 2013
3:49 PM
|
Ok. So, the guy is angry. That isn't a crime. A lot of people in the world are angry. Many great blues musicians are angry. There are a lot of very angry and violent blues songs. It's part of the music and part of the history of the music. Not everyone in life is super nice.
I guess I'm failing to see why that's a big problem.
----------
The Blues Photo Gallery
|
MN
300 posts
Nov 30, 2013
6:47 AM
|
Last time I saw Sugar Blue was at a small club in Prague. Afterward, I ended up sitting in a booth with him chatting. Dude could not have been more warm and friendly. I reluctantly admitted I'm a harp player and he was happy to slip into "harp nerd mode." :-) I don't remember how it came up, but I mentioned that I'd helped arrange a tribute to Rock Bottom at a club in Florida after he died, and Sugar lit up, declaring Rock to have been a "bad muth*****ker on harp." Later that night, a bartender offered Sugar a free shot if he'd play a few riffs. He laughed and said he had no harp. I pulled out a Golden Melody and handed it his way. He tore off some killer licks and we BOTH got free shots. Then he asked me to play a bit. I did and he was very complimentary and kind. It really was a great evening, nothing but killer music and wonderful, positive vibes.
Last Edited by MN on Nov 30, 2013 1:48 PM
|
shanester
577 posts
Nov 30, 2013
8:11 AM
|
Definitely nothing wrong with being angry, it comes with the planet earth experience, and I for one am grateful for musical forms like the blues and rock and their capacity to transform that from a destructive process to a creative process!
----------
Shane,
"The Possum Whisperer"
Shane's Cloud
1shanester
|
Post a Message
|
