jim
1479 posts
Nov 24, 2013
2:30 PM
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A game for those who believe in Santa Claus and comb materials. My attempt to study its myths and religions.
The reedplates used are identical. I took the same pair and changed combs. Your ideas?
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
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Last Edited by jim on Nov 24, 2013 2:31 PM
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1847
1333 posts
Nov 24, 2013
5:14 PM
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#4 aluminum
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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Fishlips
8 posts
Nov 24, 2013
8:07 PM
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Jim, I think the samples you played were very similar, though not exactly identical. Even so, they are within the range of variability that a good play might exhibit in playing the same material over and over again, with each recording being several minutes apart. I suspect you will agree, and thus your reference to Santa Claus (who, as I understand it, prefers combs carved out of the tusks of walruses that died peacefully in their sleep). While believe that comb material has a subjective influence on the player, and therefore possibly the tone, I'm not yet convinced that it plays a significant role in altering the acoustics of the harp itself.
The things most likely to affect tone include the material, shape, length, mass, balance, slot tolerance, “anchor,” and gap of the reed. Also, the speed, volume, and pressure of the air in the chamber will be of significance, as will the volume and shape of the resonating cavities (primarily the player's airways, but also the chamber shaped by the cover plates and the cup.
As for the comb, it does not vibrate to any great degree, nor does it dampen vibrations of the reed. All combs will dampen the vibration of the reed plate, as will the players hands and lips. Given that the sides of the comb in the slots are generally flat, smooth, and stable, all commonly used materials will behave in much the same way and have virtually identical results.
However, the cavity of each slot in the comb actally could potentially impact reed vibration and tone, so length, shape, and volume may be valid considerations that alter the sound. It seems it would make more sense, then, to discuss depth, width, curvature, and other dimensions of the openings created by the comb, much as car enthusiasts might discuss the bore and compression in an engine cylinder.
In the meantime, I'm not convinced that comb material makes an actual objective difference in sound.
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jim
1480 posts
Nov 27, 2013
5:58 PM
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And yet 1847 is right. Sample #4 is indeed aluminum.
1847, can you name plastic among those?
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walterharp
1237 posts
Nov 27, 2013
6:09 PM
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did you use a machine so breath force and embouchure were the same as well? Any replicates? Did you measure that the flatness was the same across all combs, and that the reed plates were equally as flat? The pseudo science around this topic is pretty interesting.
I tried the last series at SPAH, and while they seemed different to me, there was no agreement on how they were different and which ones were really different relative to my perceptions and those tallied by others.
Not saying there is no difference, but there is no way to quantify as of now.
This topic keeps cropping up.. and no resolution... maybe it is just matter of taste, but it does seem like controlled experiments are actually possible, and let the buyer decide after that.
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Komuso
229 posts
Nov 27, 2013
7:21 PM
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This reminds me of the Shakuhachi community and the endless debates about Bamboo vs plastic vs wood vs a burnt stick vs construction pipe vs [insert here]
It depends...
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Paul Cohen aka Komuso Tokugawa
HarpNinja - Your harmonica Mojo Dojo
Bringing the Boogie to the Bitstream
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FreeWilly
374 posts
Nov 28, 2013
1:05 AM
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Just a guess here. Although it's unfair that we don't know the options. But I like it when people invest time in this. So here you go Jim:
1:corian
2:acrylic
3:wood
4:aluminium
5:plastic
6:brass?
7:titanium????
edited to say before it is revealed what I got right: I believe in the difference. I have played a good many kind of combs myself, and have clear preferences, which I do hear in this sample I think. It would be nice to know what this "blind" test will say. Even if embouchure might be different and what not. I think the test will still reveal some things. For example: there is definitely a big difference between the samples.
What there dymondwood in here btw? It would have been good to know, because it is a relative thing. If you hear 1 comb, it would be very difficult to hear what it is. You need the reference.. Oh well.
Last Edited by FreeWilly on Nov 28, 2013 1:10 AM
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Milsson
91 posts
Nov 28, 2013
2:41 AM
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It would be fun to do a spectrum analazys in a controlled enviroment with exactly the same "breath" force.
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1847
1339 posts
Nov 28, 2013
8:06 AM
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finally, the street cred i so richly deserve.
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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Jehosaphat
619 posts
Nov 28, 2013
1:07 PM
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@time LOL
On laptop speakers they all sound th same to me.
Though Bolognium has a slightly meatier heft to it
Last Edited by Jehosaphat on Nov 28, 2013 1:11 PM
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1847
1341 posts
Nov 28, 2013
2:07 PM
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would corian be considered plastic?
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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Harpaholic
443 posts
Nov 28, 2013
3:07 PM
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Before I read any of the following posts, #4 was the only one that clearly stood out. All of the rest are too close to call. As far as comb materials, no clue even if I had references.
Last Edited by Harpaholic on Nov 28, 2013 3:09 PM
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blueswannabe
359 posts
Nov 28, 2013
5:20 PM
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@harpoholic, do you have a schematic of your premier 71? I need a copy? Please advise. Thanks Mike. Sorry to hijack this post.
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nacoran
7376 posts
Nov 28, 2013
6:10 PM
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Milson, maybe with help from this guy?
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Nate
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Thread Organizer (A list of all sorts of useful threads)
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jim
1481 posts
Nov 29, 2013
8:53 AM
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1 - soft wood
2 - corian (plastic)
3 - hard wood
4 - aluminum
5 - ebony (hardest wood out there?)
6 - same ebony + vented covers
7 - same ebony + full-length covers
the reedplate is the same in all samples
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blueswannabe
360 posts
Nov 29, 2013
1:25 PM
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I really could not pick out a real difference between the combs. I liked 1 and 4. I did not care too much for 6. I think it was due to the way you played it. I would generally have to agree that comb material doesn't make a clearly discernable difference. At least Not one that my ears can pick out. Venting and full length covers make more of a difference. Airtightness created by comb material may make a difference. It is very very very very subtle.
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1847
1342 posts
Nov 29, 2013
2:35 PM
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upon further review... i would like to change my answer
#4 is plastic...... #7 is aluminum
seems so obvious now
hindsight is 20/20
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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Milsson
92 posts
Nov 29, 2013
4:27 PM
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#4 ebony, hardest wood out there? No. Lignum vitae or pockenholtz in europe is the hardest wood out there. It,s said to smell very bad, like burnt rubber and can be a cause of allergy for some people. You havet to sharpen the tools very often they say, i wouldn't know i haven't been in contact with the material.
In my opinion aluminium is the best comb material.
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