Rick Davis
2659 posts
Nov 08, 2013
4:48 PM
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"Let’s cut right to the conclusion: The Squeal Killer works at least as well as the Kinder AFB+ at its core function of reducing feedback. But there are a few important differences and caveats. Read on…"
The full review is at the Blues Harp Amps Blog. Please pardon the link. I'm not trying to generate hits on the blog; the review is rather long for this forum.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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jukelemon
8 posts
Nov 08, 2013
6:47 PM
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Hi Rick.
I appreciate you taking the time to review the pedal and certainly appreciate the comparison with the Kinder.
I read your entire review (5 times actually) as I was very excited to hear your opinion. I value it.
And I think it was a very fair take. And I greatly appreciate you recommending it - especially the comment about the SK NOT affecting the tone as compared to the Kinder. I worked hard to accomplish that and to me that is extremely valuable and a win when considering something being added into the signal chain.
One thing I have a question on..
You mentioned that your amp was "substantially louder" with the SK than without it (1st part of review) but then concluded with a comment that it was not as dramatic as one think from reading the site. Can you please recommend a revised statement for the site? I would consider a substantial increase pretty significant as far as headroom and that is what my ears and other ears have heard. I want to convey that accurately. You know?
Did I misunderstand that section? Just curious on that.
And I agree that nothing is a Silver Bullet. As I mentioned in my site, technique will always trump equipment. But I think extra headroom (however much more) is always good and a value to a harp player on stage. Would you agree?
Again, I greatly appreciate your time. Thank you for your patience while it arrived.
Last Edited by jukelemon on Nov 08, 2013 7:10 PM
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Rick Davis
2660 posts
Nov 08, 2013
8:25 PM
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Jason, I thought about that wording before publishing the review. The amp was indeed substantially louder before feedback with the SK pedal; more than 3dB. It had about the same increase in headroom as the Kinder pedal. That is what I was trying to convey. With some high-gain amps the increase in volume before feedback may be greater.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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Harpaholic
425 posts
Nov 08, 2013
8:53 PM
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Rick, great review! Did you by chance check the decibel levels of the amp turned up to the point of FB with and without the SK and compare the levels? Would that be an accurate test?
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Rick Davis
2661 posts
Nov 08, 2013
8:58 PM
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Harpaholic, thanks. If you are familiar with the Kinder pedal the increase in volume before feedback is similar.
Too bad I sold my Bassman a couple weeks ago. I would have liked to try the SK pedal with that amp.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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Jehosaphat
595 posts
Nov 08, 2013
9:23 PM
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I like the way Jason handles himself on the Forum..seems like a no bullshit kind of guy who has genuinely come up with something that a large segment of the Harp community would be interested in.
The only (mild) criticism i have is the price
269$(US) for a pedal is really at the top end ..a valve and some electronics..
I mean you can buy a valve amp for that.
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jukelemon
9 posts
Nov 09, 2013
5:45 AM
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Hi all.
Rick: yeah, I wish you would have had the Bassman too :) I believe you would have definitely experienced an even more substantial volume increase. I purchased a very nice digital audio/video recorder. I will posting examples of the effect/tone/lack of coloring like you mentioned/etc very soon.
Phat: thanks for the kind words. I try to be just that-I am not looking to blow smoke and try to be as honest as possible given the 1000's of amps/circuits/mics/signal chain possibilities.
Regarding the price, I feel it is fair-not cheap and not expensive. It is hand built and I think has a good value in that 1-it is more cost effective than Kinder and 2-does not color the tone. Even if a customer were to say the Kinder and the SK were identical in overall effect i.e. volume levels I feel the value of not coloring the tone and the price is a substantial difference. Icing - there is nothing to "calibrate".
As well, you get a person not an product. I have spent and will continue to spend hours talking to potential customers on the phone. I dig that and feel that is something (at least to me) of great value. I would have loved to have had that resource when I was getting into playing music.
Anyway, I again appreciate the comments and glad it is being well received and, in the end, at least considered as an option/competitor :)
My goal was to offer an option for the community/market and hopefully I am doing that.
Thanks all.
Jason
Last Edited by jukelemon on Nov 09, 2013 10:19 AM
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harpoon_man
37 posts
Nov 09, 2013
9:44 AM
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Rick,
Thanks for the detailed review. A squeal killer may be in my future, depending on the size of my year-end bonus. If you experiment further, I would be interested to hear how the squeal killer performs with amps that are not harp-specific (e.g., a stock bassman RI).
Cheers,
Rusty
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Rick Davis
2662 posts
Nov 09, 2013
10:00 AM
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Rusty, I suspect the Squeal Killer will work well with guitar amps. I'll let you know.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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HawkeyeKane
2150 posts
Nov 09, 2013
10:43 AM
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"Too bad I sold my Bassman a couple weeks ago. I would have liked to try the SK pedal with that amp."
I'll letcha know if that comes to fruition. ;-)
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Hawkeye Kane
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6SN7
387 posts
Nov 09, 2013
10:54 AM
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I have a Kinder and come to think of it, I have only used on my bassman amp. Are they effective with 5-18 watt amps?
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Tblues1
40 posts
Nov 09, 2013
11:00 AM
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I think I would have to give the SK a thumbs down for use with an amp setup for harp.
The SK has a slightly negative effect on tone.
Makes it a bit darker, no big deal,can be adjusted out.
It also did add a very slight amount of noise.
A slight hum when hooked up, very slight but noticeable.
I use a 5751/12AY7 in the amp normally, a Mission Amps 1x15 setup.
Added a higher gain tube (5751) to V1 per suggestions for the SK. The 12AT7 suggested made the hum a little more noticeable.
Seemed odd to have to raise gain in order to reduce it, which is what SK seems to do along with attenuating signal.
Amp is louder and sounded better on 5 with that setup than 9 with SK hooked up.
SK did seem to add some crunch.
Bottom line is 12AY7 in v1 without SK works better.
With that 5751/12AY7 setup, amp can go to 8 and is louder with better tone.
Seems best place for SK would be to plug into someone's guitar amp.
I might still keep it for that purpose.
As in everything it is a matter of taste/opinion.
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TetonJohn
150 posts
Nov 09, 2013
11:00 AM
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Yes, AFB+ is effective w/ smaller amps -- getting them up into the crunch zone with less FB worry.
(For example, I have used with a BF Princeton RV, which is pretty clean, and relatively low volume before feedback, AFB+ gets it into the crunch zone and allows more stage volume, more versatility for a small amp; then the LW HarpTone+ helps with more flexibility at tone controls; I think this is a sweet pedal combination for non-harp amps.)
Last Edited by TetonJohn on Nov 09, 2013 11:11 AM
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Banyan3
23 posts
Nov 09, 2013
11:09 AM
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I bet those big masco MA-35 style pa heads would sound killer , with that pedal you prob could actually use it, those things have gain for days. Or a MA-60! Sounds like some kind of military weapon. Sounds like this pedal is good for us people who don't have harp specific amp.
Last Edited by Banyan3 on Nov 09, 2013 11:17 AM
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Harpaholic
428 posts
Nov 09, 2013
12:05 PM
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TBlues and Ban you may be right. since most harp specific amps have been designed and built with FB in mind. The SK might be better suited for a guitar amp that's being used for harp? Since a lot of harp players use guitar amps, that's a good thing!
I would like to see some testing on guitar amps that are FB monsters like some of the Masco's Ban mentions.
Last Edited by Harpaholic on Nov 09, 2013 12:29 PM
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Banyan3
24 posts
Nov 09, 2013
1:11 PM
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I agree with harpaholic ,A reveiw of the pedal on a non specific harp amp would definitely be more useful since that's where I think most people would use it . That would make me lean more towards getting one since I don't own a boutique amp.
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jukelemon
10 posts
Nov 09, 2013
3:54 PM
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Hi all.
I am not surprised that the SK does not perform as well with a harp amp already designed (circuit wise) for harp. The gain structure (alone) is very different.
The specialty/boutique amps are solving for feedback/performance in a different way. Which is cool. But I would imagine most are playing with guitar amps or PA heads. Maybe not but it seems to be the case at least in my experience/from the people that are writing in.
Tim: sorry it didn't work. but that's cool. I appreciate you giving it a shot and at least trying my suggestions with tubes.
I wish you had a high watt bassman, super, concert or the like OR you lived closer :)
I will posting videos soon of those types and smaller amps like my GA-6/66 Princeton Reverb and I believe it will definitely show what I have been trying to express in my experiences with the pedal.
As well, most of the current customers that will be receiving pedals do not have boutique amps. Mostly Bassman RI's so you I imagine we will be hearing from that equipment type soon.
All good. Keep it coming guys. The product can only get better/get better defined so people can make an educated buying decision.
Thanks all.
Jason
Last Edited by jukelemon on Nov 09, 2013 3:58 PM
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Oxharp
546 posts
Nov 09, 2013
4:02 PM
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@ jukelemon
Sounds really interesting this pedal and as I have a modified Bassman RI I still have trouble getting good stage volume especially at jams with 2 guitars etc. I was wondering does this pedal come with a UK 240v power supply?.
I am sure that if we got to hear some sound samples in a video from a harp player that would make up my mind to purchase one.
It would be easy for me to get this into a UK Harp stockist like Rockin Rons as he is always looking for a good seller.
cheers
Russ
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Oxharp
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jukelemon
11 posts
Nov 09, 2013
4:10 PM
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Russ: 240v is no problem. Already building 2 as we speak.
All: I have modified the language on the TRUTH page to point out that IF you have a harp specific amp OR a modified amp, you may experience less than average results.
That should help I think.
Jason
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Tblues1
41 posts
Nov 09, 2013
4:35 PM
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Jukelemon,
What would you call high power Bassman?
As far as I know a Bassman is 40-45 watts.
My Mission Aps 1x15 is 50 watts, as is my 2X10.
I don't think power had anything to do with effectiveness here.
SK did what I thought it would, I was very curious about it, so I tried it.
Best way to learn.
It is a fine unit.
There is nothing wrong with it.
I just think it would be better suited to an unmodified amp.
I also think the terms Boutique/Specialty amp are a bit exaggerated.
You take a Bassman or whatever, do some harp mods, you now have a Boutique/Specialty amp.
I just didn't have time or patience to go that route.
I will probably keep it.
I would be interested in hearing if anyone tries one with a solid state setup.
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jukelemon
12 posts
Nov 09, 2013
5:11 PM
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Tblues.
Let me be more specific...because yes, you are hitting on the subject of the same power rating which is directly related (most often) to the OT rating.
What I mean is an amp with both a higher gain preamp and a significant power section. Power (as far amps) is often directly related to its OT. Agree? So, I would imagine that your Mission amp has a 50w OT - which is ideal for allowing for whatever frequency response should be coming out of that - which I would think has a tone stack and input section suited to a harp mic.
That is all good but my point is that a non harp amp is different in the front end and that is where I think the differences are happening.
I agree with you that most of those mods could be called boutique/are exaggerated but when you change the preamp section of an amp, I think that is significant.
Sorry for not being specific. I relate power (OT) always with the preamp. 2 types of preamp design into the same OT output (in this case lets say 50w) can produce pretty big differences.
Not arguing with you (I hope it does not come off that way). I get what you mean.
Jason
Last Edited by jukelemon on Nov 09, 2013 5:12 PM
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mattfolk327
24 posts
Nov 09, 2013
7:26 PM
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Feedbacks good you just have to control it. I'm sure it can be done with a harmonicajust like any other instrument.
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Jehosaphat
597 posts
Nov 09, 2013
7:31 PM
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@Matt
You originaly stated that you have been playing Harmonica for two months?
Controlling feedback is one of the biggest issues confronting amped Harpists.
That's why we have forums...among other issues.
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mattfolk327
26 posts
Nov 09, 2013
10:18 PM
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Yea I've been playing about two months. Unamplified but I'm sure it can be done. Imagine using a wah pedal with a harp and controlling the feedback with a wah or something. I don't know. I'm probably wrong.
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Rick Davis
2666 posts
Nov 10, 2013
11:30 AM
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Let's not get hung up on the numbers. My review was about playing impressions, it was not a lab test. The sound meter was there only to confirm my subjective judgment that I had the pedals at equal loudness, given that the SK pedal attenuated the signal and made comparisons of the volume knob position meaningless without a baseline measurement. I'm sure somebody will come along and do a more scientific test of the SK pedal.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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jukelemon
14 posts
Nov 10, 2013
1:13 PM
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Hi Rick. Fair enough.
But the numbers are important as they indicate a non subjective opinion.
I have a meter as well. I will be posting comparisons too for another reference.
I am showing 2.8-4.3 increases.
JL
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TetonJohn
158 posts
Nov 10, 2013
3:49 PM
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Hi, JL.
Hypothetical scenario:
Playing harp into a Champ (let's say it's a harp modified champ and you love it and have no feedback issues). The Champ has a "line out" and you want to run that signal to a big tube amp that isn't harpified (let's say a Bassman RI). The Bassman hits feedback at a certain volume, and you would like more volume before feedback.
Question:
Would the Squeal Killer work with the line level signal BETWEEN the Champ and the Bassman to allow more volume before feedback (similar to the way it would work between a microphone and the Bassman?????
If you don't know, that's fine -- i know this is a bit of an odd application.
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jukelemon
15 posts
Nov 10, 2013
6:38 PM
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Hi Teton.
First, I will say that I have never done it in that way. But in theory it should work as the line level signal is simply the input. The SK doesn't care where it comes from.
I am assuming you are slaving amps in this set up and you have already tried.
I do this as well except I will do this:
Mic-SK-Slave Amp-Amp with my Gibson Ga-6 into my Princeton Reverb. Massive sound (This will actually be another sound demo for everyone)
I also do not ever use a stock Line out. I always use my own and tap directly off of the OT. Much better impact in my opinion on the End amp.
Now, if your "modified" Champ has just that (OT tapped line out), then I would try it both ways i.e. in front of the Champ and then in between the Champ and Bassman and see what sounds better.
So in other words, there is no reverse effect in your proposed set up i.e. the champ would not lose its sweet spot. The Bassman would amplify your tone/sound from the Champ (as a transparent amp) as if the Champ was the input signal/your Mic up to a certain point(like in any slave condition) then the 2nd amp would begin to show its own characteristics/color the Champ's signal. This of course could be very good. Your Champ's Volume then becomes the Pre Amp volume with your Bassman having the Master volume.
I think its a heck of an idea to try and I don't think it's odd at all. Clever actually. Good thinking.
Last Edited by jukelemon on Nov 10, 2013 6:42 PM
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TetonJohn
159 posts
Nov 10, 2013
7:01 PM
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I appreciate you taking the time to reply; and good luck with your SK.
(I also appreciate your willingness to engage on the forum here -- this type of communication be be tricky -- good luck with that, too.)
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jukelemon
16 posts
Nov 10, 2013
8:07 PM
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No problem Teton.
Take care. Let me know if you have any more questions.
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