Mirco
17 posts
Nov 05, 2013
9:29 PM
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I was just communicating with a mic builder who advises against volume controls on a mic, because they alter the tone. Some harp players, such as David Barrett, think that going without a volume control helps players develop a better handle on their dynamics.
I know many professionals use in line volume controls, such as the ones that Greg Heumann sells.
I'm interested in the thoughts of people on this forum. Volume control on your microphone or not?
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didjcripey
655 posts
Nov 05, 2013
10:56 PM
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I've put them in every mic I've built/restored, but lately I don't use them except as an on/off switch.
They shouldn't affect the tone when they are at full volume.
If you are within reach of your amp and have good control of your dynamics they seem less important to me than they used to.
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Lucky Lester
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SuperBee
1515 posts
Nov 05, 2013
11:10 PM
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I use them on all my mics, but like didj says, generally as an on off switch. Just makes it easy to approach the amp. That's a very useful thing. The only time I ever slightly regret dumping a noise gate pedal I once owned is when I have to use a mic with no on/off and no VC.
Oh but it also handy to be able to cut the volume a tad if you need to for some reason. Or to keep a little in reserve so you can turn up if the levels change unexpectedly.
Mainly I use Blowsmeaway in line vc. Got a couple JTs with built in VC but I don't use those much.
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Last Edited by SuperBee on Nov 05, 2013 11:15 PM
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Rubes
772 posts
Nov 06, 2013
3:14 AM
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Sound check at 80%...... then up for lower keys and head cutting solos....
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garry
461 posts
Nov 06, 2013
5:20 AM
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absolutely required on all my mics.
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rogonzab
410 posts
Nov 06, 2013
5:21 AM
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Yes.
The most usefull thing ever invented. You can set the volume acording the band, and in your solo turn the volume up.
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chromaticblues
1508 posts
Nov 06, 2013
5:42 AM
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No
I agree with David Barrett.
Dynamics isn't just volume levels!
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blueswannabe
340 posts
Nov 06, 2013
6:21 AM
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I use Greg's volume control all the time. It's essential to prevent feedback. However, recently, I have been paying way more attention to playing softly and letting the amp and volume do the job. I noticed that this has improved my tone and dynamics. So I would agree with Dave with regards to developing tone but I would still have a VC either in line or on the mic as it is useful.
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walterharp
1209 posts
Nov 06, 2013
6:44 AM
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yes, i like them.. i have always wondered about some people worried about altering tone when the effect is to roll off some of the highs and then they do that with amp settings anyway...
another way they are useful is getting the amp right to that point near feedback.. it is not at the exact same mic volume when you are standing right next to it as it is standing out front, so it gives you that little bit of control when you are out and away... Also it is not just about volume on solos, when you are right at that point near feedback if you pump it up just a bit, the solos get more grit, kind of like the boost or dirty channel foot switch guitar guys use to solo.
Sometimes we have songs where other harp players use my gear. If they are not so adept at handling mics re feedback issues it is nice to be able to help them quickly resolve it
Finally, I have been doing some recording through a digitech rp355 and the extra volume control at the mic really helps for setting levels.. the way band in a box uses the pedal as the sound card for the computer makes it less flexible and this fixes some of the issues for me
So it is good to have, and worst case, you can mostly use it as an on-off switch which is very helpful
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Greg Heumann
2450 posts
Nov 06, 2013
8:29 AM
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Yes, a volume control can change tone. A good one has truly minimal impact however. And - who cares? A different tone is not necessarily a worse tone. In my experience this is only an issue of any significance with crystal elements and poorly matched volume controls.
I like volume controls. I have good dynamics and can play softly. But the right volume for my Low D harp isn't the right volume for my C harp. And there are times when I want to play fairly firmly, without a lot of volume from the amp - when comping for example - and I like to be able to turn down. Stage conditions change and it sure is good to have some control without having to keep walking back to your amp.
When feedback occurs on stage, the first thing I do is turn my VC down. Usually its someone else's' problem but because I know KNOW it isn't me, I can give everyone else the upward facing palms raised eyebrows "Hey - it ain't me" look (and you know they'll all look at the harp player." AND it makes a great on/off switch.
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***************************************************
/Greg
BlowsMeAway Productions
See my Customer Mics album on Facebook
BlueState - my band
Bluestate on iTunes
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Slimharp
34 posts
Nov 06, 2013
8:41 AM
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I use them. As mentioned, when doing comps and fills it's nice to just cut back some. My experience is in gig settings things change quite a bit between songs and sets. I would hate to have to keep going back and forth to may amp. A chromatic responds differently. The VC is very valuable. I have used Gregs and Steve Warners. If the right Mg pot is used tone will be slightly affected if any. For the trade off they are worth it in my book.
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Barley Nectar
167 posts
Nov 06, 2013
8:51 AM
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I build my mics and all get a VC. 1meg audio pot works fine. Usually run about 80% like Rube says then set the anp to taste. Sometimes you can push the feedback limit and play right thru it for awsome huge tone. The VC lets you move around the stage and stay in control. Also handy when you have several amps. They all act differently so the VC makes your mic more flexable. Easier to stay in the sweet spot, distortion wise, when using a VC. Go for it...BN
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nacoran
7310 posts
Nov 06, 2013
8:51 AM
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I'm still waiting for a mic that will control the pedals, instead of the other way around. Right now, you have to use duck tape like Jon Popper or use a Rock Band game controller (which of course, only controls them in Rock Band, although I suspect someone could hack one). :)
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Nate
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Kingley
3256 posts
Nov 06, 2013
9:14 AM
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I have nothing against volume controls. I have used volume controls in the past, but I prefer not to use them myself these days. I much prefer an on/off switch if I'm using anything. Currently I have three mics and don't use volume controls or on/off switches with any of them. I don't find I have any problems doing things that way. Although I don't play with people who play at overly loud volumes.
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blueswannabe
341 posts
Nov 06, 2013
9:30 AM
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Greg's VC controls are very well made and work well too. I have a 40's crystal turner element which I was surprised to see worked with the Greg's VC which I bought for my CM/CR elements. Why is this?
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Greg Heumann
2451 posts
Nov 06, 2013
9:42 AM
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@blueswannabe - my standard control will work with your crystal mic but may rob a little output/tone - the proof is in your ears. I do make an "extra high impedance" control that would be a better match for the crystal mic.
Sometimes crystals can be SO hot that they're feedback nightmares - in which case the extra load of the standard control is sometimes just the ticket.
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***************************************************
/Greg
BlowsMeAway Productions
See my Customer Mics album on Facebook
BlueState - my band
Bluestate on iTunes
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dougharps
467 posts
Nov 06, 2013
2:19 PM
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Yes!
I don't need one when I am just using a mic on a stand to sing and play. If I am singing and playing to the PA with a hand held mic, I like to be able to cut mic volume and cup the harp using proximity effect, then open up the volume so I can sing back from the mic and minimize vocal proximity effect.
On occasion when playing to an amp I have used a mic cable with a built in volume control with an EV630, I enjoy the built in volume controls on my 585s, I like Greg's volume controls for XLR and Greg's two different Switchcraft volume controls (one for crystal & ceramic elements), and really like my Ultimate 58. I have an extremely hot CM element from a 520D that has to have a volume cut to be usable, and Greg's control does the job.
Chromatic harp and different keys of diatonics benefit from adjusting mic volume. Band volume may vary, and having the ability to turn up or down helps.
You still need to be able to play with dynamics. I seldom use a VC for volume levels during a song, I use it for changing volume needs when playing different songs, or when the band gets louder or quieter.
Having volume on the mic means you don't have to keep adjusting your amp or the PA.
I always leave a little room to turn up if needed.
I am a believer in the benefits of volume control.
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Doug S.
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TetonJohn
145 posts
Nov 06, 2013
2:52 PM
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OT, but volume control on the microphone hanging over my amp lets me turn up my volume in the house w/o having to ask anybody for it (and w/o effecting stage volume). Stealth VC!! If folks in the audience give you a "I can't hear you" signal, you have some control. Set it about 3/4 during sound check to leave room. ;-)
(Unless you have never had such a problem...)
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dougharps
468 posts
Nov 06, 2013
3:48 PM
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I forgot my Fireball V!
I have also used the Fireball to mic a small amp to the PA, and have done exactly what TetonJohn describes.
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Doug S.
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LSC
529 posts
Nov 06, 2013
4:24 PM
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I'm a advocate of volume control on the mic for all the reasons Greg mentioned. I would also say that Greg's VCs are a superb piece of kit. The taper on the pot is just right and they have a real feel of quality in use. You will not find a better one at any price.
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LSC
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twincityslim
1 post
Nov 06, 2013
9:56 PM
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Has anyone using VC as an on/off switch ever tried installing an actual on/ off switch on a bullet?
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Kingley
3257 posts
Nov 06, 2013
10:12 PM
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I've had loads of bullet mics that I fitted with on/ off switches.
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6SN7
386 posts
Nov 07, 2013
6:17 AM
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Greg has said it all. I like having different tones when I play. He makes an excellent point of volume necessary when going from a G harp to a F harp.
I find them helpful since I play in a 4/5/6 piece band situations.
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jbone
1406 posts
Nov 07, 2013
6:47 PM
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I prefer to have one even if it's not needed much. We're transitioning here from acoustic duo to band format but we will insist on low volumes for the most part, so a vc may not be necessary. I do have 2 or 3 without and 2 with so I have options always.
If you have a good element, any tone loss to me is neglegible.
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harpoon_man
36 posts
Nov 08, 2013
9:30 AM
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I had a volume control on my first harp mic but only used it as an on/off switch. On all of my subsequent mics, I've had an on/off switch installed and much prefer on/off only. For me, the on/off switch is a simpler and faster solution. If I want more volume for a lower key harp, I tweak the amp volume and typically tweak the amp EQ settings at the same time (normally I adjust volume and tone settings simultaneously to maintain an optimal sound).
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harpwrench
717 posts
Nov 09, 2013
6:41 AM
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My favorite sounding mics have always been without VC's, but they're a useful tool too. I'll switch mics when playing higher keys or handing over my rig to another player for sure.
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Georgia Blues
111 posts
Nov 09, 2013
5:20 PM
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I have a volume/tone control between the harp and amp and it works very well at balancing my tone from the mic. Seems I am always trying to ease off on the treble coming from the mic and the tone control helps a lot with that. The volume control helps if I'm trying for a hotter or more mellow sound depending on the tune. More mic volume tends to give a hotter sound while less softens things up nicely. Handy tool for me.
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Alex
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Jehosaphat
598 posts
Nov 09, 2013
7:40 PM
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I think of my V/C as a safety blanket.You can be on a stage all perfectly set up ,no feedback good volume and something changes.
eg someone shifts a monitor,that can change the stage dynamics straight away or even in the worst case scenario people just move around ,i've had feedback happen suddenly because of that.
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Greg Heumann
2457 posts
Nov 09, 2013
7:47 PM
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The responses to this thread so far track my experience with the market at large. About 85% are pro VC; 15% don't care for 'em.
Vive la difference!
***************************************************
/Greg
BlowsMeAway Productions
See my Customer Mics album on Facebook
BlueState - my band
Bluestate on iTunes
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Rick Davis
2665 posts
Nov 10, 2013
7:43 AM
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I'm not much of a mic maven. I have two bullet mics I use most of the time, one a lot more than the other.
My main mic has a screw-on connector and an inline volume control from Greg. The other has a 1/4 inch plug connector and no volume control, but it has an on-off switch.
Like others, I usually use the volume control as an on-off switch, but there are times I appreciate being able to adjust the mic volume. When others use this mic (it happens a lot at the jam) I notice good players use the volume control more.
I may be in the minority on this, but I think it is a little distracting when players fiddle a lot with the mic volume while playing. I try to modulate my playing intensity rather than twisting the knob every time I move from comping to soloing.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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nacoran
7319 posts
Nov 10, 2013
9:33 AM
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I'd actually like two volume controls, with a toggle. That's essentially what I've done with a gain pedal. I don't have a particularly loud voice, so I have to raise the levels on my vocals. A dual volume control with a toggle would give me that, right on the mic.
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Nate
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BC
2 posts
Nov 10, 2013
3:52 PM
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I mainly use it as a secondary on/off switch. I have used it for feedback control. I did that at a performance last summer, however I was miked into the main bands system. I have used it for volume control in balance with the amp volume knob. However you pull it back too far and you lose the electric sound and then you pretty much sound acoustic. I definitely agree about not using it for adjusting tone. I don't go for relying on the equipment. You need to create it yourself.
BC
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Mirco
20 posts
Nov 10, 2013
5:58 PM
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Got it. Thanks for all the feedback. I think the best-- safest-- way is to NOT install a VC if there isn't already one, and just get an inline VC. Adding a VC to something that doesn't already have one MIGHT change the tone, and I certainly would have to adjust my cupping for it.
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Greg Heumann
2459 posts
Nov 10, 2013
9:38 PM
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@Mirco - not quite sure what you're thinking but just to be sure its clear - an in-line VC will affect tone exactly the same as a built in VC assuming they use the same value potentiometer. The in-line VC has the advantage of being removable without affecting the value of the mic if you don't like it.
Once again - if you buy a good quality control it will have negligible impact on your tone, and the benefits are many.
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***************************************************
/Greg
BlowsMeAway Productions
See my Customer Mics album on Facebook
BlueState - my band
Bluestate on iTunes
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