STME58
561 posts
Oct 14, 2013
10:29 PM
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There has been a lot mentioned here about being able to tune your own harps. I can see making an adjustment to set the intonation to suit ones style or even to change the available pitches (ie. Paddy Richter or Power Bender).
What my (limited) experience has shown though, is that once a reed starts to drift flat it is at the end of life. I can tune it back up but it will be flat very shortly (sometimes in minutes) and will soon fail completely. Based on this the best way for me to bring a flat reed back on pitch is to replace it, it is due to fail soon anyway. This may be an artifact of my playing style. I was wondering how many of you have the same experience and how many have brought a flat reed back on pitch and had it continue a long and useful life.
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Pistolcat
543 posts
Oct 15, 2013
12:35 AM
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I had some success with my first try, a MBD in Bb that beat horribly when playin amped octaves. I at least got the beats out if it, the chords are probably still kind of off.
When a reed gets horribly, horribly flat it'll probably soon fail, though...
I just bought a session steel that was very out of tune ootb so I'll try to tune that, too, one of these days.
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Baker
336 posts
Oct 15, 2013
3:01 AM
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When a reed goes significantly flat, quite suddenly this is usually a sign that it has failed. This is happening because the reed has developed a hairline fracture which will develop into a larger fracture and die. This is usually a result of consistently drawing too hard or bending the reed too aggressively.
However, over time reeds will go very slightly flat anyway, as I understand it it is simply the result of stresses out on the metal, and like all things entropy takes it course. In these cases you can tune the reeds back up and have them last a good while longer.
Think of it like a guitar string, over time it will go out of tune and you can just tune it back up, however keep hitting too hard and it will break and there is no saving it.
Last Edited by Baker on Oct 15, 2013 3:01 AM
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STME58
563 posts
Oct 15, 2013
11:13 PM
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Thanks for the input guys. I am familiar with reeds failing. I was even able to get a micro-graph of the crack in one or the reeds I had go flat. I was just wondering if, other than a mistuning from the factory as Pistolcat described, it ever makes sense to tune a reed that goes flat. So far I have had no luck with that. If its flat, its failing.
As I learn to play better reeds are going longer between failures. It is usually 4 blow or 7 blow, tonic in first position.
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FreeWilly
359 posts
Oct 16, 2013
12:41 AM
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Funny: I have almost never had a reed go flat. And only on 5 year old harps or something. Never had to throw out a harp because of it. I haven't been tuning all that long, but my reeds are usually sharp after a while, and I have to tune them down again.
I don't play a harp to be loud though. I do use dynamics, but I don't suck on the thing until the vains in my neck start to explode like you see people do so often...
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Baker
338 posts
Oct 16, 2013
1:58 AM
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I guess the other reason you might want to tune your reeds its to achieve and Equal Temperament, Just Intonation or some other Compromised variation.
Personally I tune the bottom 4 holes to J.I. and tune the 7 draw down a half step – so I can get the minor third in the top octave in 2nd position.
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arzajac
1186 posts
Oct 16, 2013
4:50 AM
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Tuning a harmonica has nothing to do with rescuing a blown reed. Most out-of-the-box harps are not in tune. And over time, any harp will come out of tune, reeds can either sharpen or flatten.
Most people don't notice or don't care unless the problem is obvious. Some people are very picky and touch up their tuning frequently. If you are a hard player, you probably will notice your harps sound better if you sharpen some reeds a touch, like the lower draw reeds.
If you draw hard on the 1 or 2 draw, they will be noticeably out of tune. And playing the 1-4 draw octave can sound funny. Raising the 1 draw about 2 or 3 cents can fix this.
Octave splits on the top end are unpleasant to play if the harp is out of tune, and it doesn't take much for those reeds to be unmatched and beat badly. Most factory harps beat a lot up there.
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Custom overblow harps. Harmonica service and repair.
Last Edited by arzajac on Oct 16, 2013 4:51 AM
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FreeWilly
361 posts
Oct 16, 2013
5:51 AM
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I recently retuned two of my golden melodies to the crossover tuning and will do the others soon too. Very nice tuning. Altough any tuning when done good sounds better than ootb. But I like the chords over my eq tuning-attempts!
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isaacullah
2548 posts
Oct 16, 2013
9:27 AM
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If you've had the harp awhile, and you find that it has gone only a little out of tune, one thing to try is simply taking it apart and cleaning it. "Gunk" build up on the reeds and at the corners of the rivet pad can affect the pitch of the note. This "gunk" is a natural byproduct of the proteins in your saliva, and is an unavoidable fact of harmonica playing. A gentle wash in an ultrasonic cleaner, or a very gentle scrub with a soft toothbrush and mild soap will get rid of it.
However, once and a while you get a harp that is horribly out of tune OOTB. This is a fault at the factory, and you can/should be able to have them send you a replacement harp. I once got a harp where the 1 draw reed had not been tuned at all (as in there were NO tuning marks). It was almost a half step below the proper pitch. Rather than hassle with a return, I just filed it to pitch myself. If it had been sharp, I would have returned it, however, because then I would have had to have filed at the base of the reed, and I think that's better done with a rotary tool (which I do not have).
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harpwrench
700 posts
Oct 16, 2013
9:39 AM
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I won't use rotary tools on brass, it distorts the metal. Great for stainless.
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Spiers Custom Harmonicas
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isaacullah
2549 posts
Oct 16, 2013
9:53 AM
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Hmmm. Interesting to hear. I don't like using a file to lower the pitch, as I can only file it at an angle oblique to the reed. I worry that this angle can induce reed failure at a later date along the direction of filing. If I could file the reed lengthwise to lower pitch, I'd be happier. That's why I thought a rotary tool is better. I suppose those little sanding wands are the best tool for the job.
Personally, I only lower pitch by adding material to the tip of thee reed. I use BluTak.
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Last Edited by isaacullah on Oct 16, 2013 9:53 AM
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STME58
565 posts
Oct 16, 2013
10:08 AM
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I have experienced "gunk" changing the tuning as isaaculla mentioned. Careful cleaning corrects this.
The frequency of a reed is determined by and equation of the form root(K/M). Where K is the spring rate or stiffness (how much force is required to move the reed a certain distance) and M is the mass of the moving part of the reed.
If you get gunk on the tip of the reed, M goes up and as M is in the denominator, the frequency goes down. Gunk in the root of the reed makes it harder to move. This is an increase in stiffness (K) and the frequency goes up. A crack developing on the root of the reed lowers stiffness and lowers the pitch. There are probably other mechanisms for the pitch to change that I am unaware of.
In my experience, if cleaning does not bring it back on pitch, a flat reed is probably cracked. I appreciate those of you wow have shared your experience with tuning.
Last Edited by STME58 on Oct 16, 2013 10:09 AM
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harpwrench
701 posts
Oct 16, 2013
10:22 AM
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Yeah I don't use a file to lower pitch either, I use a scraper. Starting on the edges and working my way in as needed (for fine tuning). My preference is solder on tips if tuning down large amounts. I use a file for sharpening pitch. Sanding wands are okay for sharpening, except for the tiny debris going everywhere. Also anything you do on the broad surface of the reed further back can impact the pitch with stress, not to mention your reed profiles (curvature for Jim), and almost always means having to go back and retune again. Using a scraper on the edge is least intrusive, and you can also work it in with chamfering.
Anytime you adjust gaps and profiles you'll probably throw the pitch flat, this doesn't mean you need to replace the reed, they'll drift back sharp in a few days.
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fix it till it's broke.
Spiers Custom Harmonicas
Last Edited by harpwrench on Oct 17, 2013 6:32 AM
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wolfkristiansen
215 posts
Oct 16, 2013
10:05 PM
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Hi STME58-- I'll answer the question directly. My experience is like yours. If a reed on a much played harp starts going flat, I do file it to get some more life out of it. Sometimes I get a few more gigs out of it. If it goes flat again, soon, I know it's doomed and don't bother filing it again.
I've occasionally had the same experience as you, that some reeds go flat again immediately after being brought up to pitch. But that's not my usual experience.
Bottom line, filing the tip is worth a try if you're on a budget.
Cheers,
wolf kristiansen
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Kingley
3213 posts
Oct 16, 2013
10:33 PM
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I tune the same way that Joe (harpwrench) does. In my experience I've found that usually a reed can be retuned multiple times if it's only drifted partially from being in tune. If it's a semitone or more from it's original tuning then I've found they don't last long if retuned and it's generally better to replace the reed(s) in question. Because being a semitone or more from it's base point is more often than not a sign of extreme reed fatigue in my experience.
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STME58
566 posts
Oct 16, 2013
11:31 PM
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On a related note, when a reed has gone flat because it has a crack in it, it only goes down to the pitch of the other reed in the same hole.If I file it to tune it, it will sometimes come up for a few seconds and I can hear it slide down but only to the pitch of the other reed. At this point, on that hole I can get the same note blow or draw. Anyone know what is going on in this case?
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