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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
OT Civics - The Gov Shutdown for Musicians
OT Civics - The Gov Shutdown for Musicians
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GMaj7
291 posts
Oct 08, 2013
6:16 AM
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In a previous thread our very cool friends from around the world inquired about the state of affairs with the U.S gov. The situation is complex butI thought I would explain it metaphorically in MBH terms.
You got your drummer on one side and you have your lead guitar player on the other. The drummer feels like he pretty much carries the weight of the band both in talent and because he has to haul in the most gear. He wants a little more money each gig and an extra drink voucher from the bar. The lead guitar player feels like he doesn't get enough solos and even when he does, it isn't loud enough. He is insisting on more volume and more SRV time. The sound man - who happens to manage the band - isn't budging on either issue and since the combo has become dysfunctional, he has had to pull the plug on the PA. The bass player has found another gig in a country band and the harp player really can't see what's going on because he just bought some super dark sunglasses.
Meanwhile all the patrons at Big Joe's Little Ice House are happy to play the juke box and sort of hoping things don't get worked out for awhile.
Hope this helps!
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Greg Jones
16:23 Custom Harmonicas
greg@1623customharmonicas.com
1623customharmonicas.com
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Frank
2950 posts
Oct 08, 2013
6:31 AM
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Rick sums it up this way :)
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harmonicanick
2051 posts
Oct 08, 2013
7:21 AM
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@Gmaj7
Not really mate,
Nick
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GMaj7
292 posts
Oct 08, 2013
8:05 AM
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Ahhh guys.. it was supposed to be non-partisan and creative way to poke fun at a situation...
I just figured that's what art and music is all about..
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Greg Jones
16:23 Custom Harmonicas
greg@1623customharmonicas.com
1623customharmonicas.com
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Zadozica
274 posts
Oct 08, 2013
8:10 AM
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Sorry......it is just everyday the information about this debacle is getting worse. Rant over and out.
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Frank
2951 posts
Oct 08, 2013
8:21 AM
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This adds to Ricks Summarization...
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ej
35 posts
Oct 08, 2013
8:34 AM
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Wow Zadozica, where's that information about pre-natal and drug counseling coming from? Not from the site I've been on in New Mexico, my rates are better than before. I guess it all varies by individual.
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Zadozica
275 posts
Oct 08, 2013
9:14 AM
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There is a list of 10 mandatories of which those two must be offered on all policies. Check yours, you will have one or both depending on your sex and if you are married.
It was written into the law but of course, details never mentioned.
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ej
36 posts
Oct 08, 2013
9:18 AM
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Thanks, I'll check it out.
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Goldbrick
270 posts
Oct 08, 2013
9:51 AM
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Thats because members of congress never got around to Actually reading the huge document they were expected to pass, cause the Prez wanted it.
I am an " essential fed employee" in my day job and there is even more confusion and red tape than usual ( if thats possible)
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nacoran
7211 posts
Oct 08, 2013
10:58 AM
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Zadozica, there is actually a reason for that. Right now, people, if they buy health insurance, tend to only buy the parts they think they'll need, which means everyone in that pool is fairly high risk. The idea is that by putting healthy people into all of the pools it lowers the total risk level in the pool, which means that insurance can be offered at a lower rate. You may never use drug counseling or prenatal care, but somewhere else some 23-year-old is also buying insurance that covers arthritis that they could put off buying for decades, and that makes coverage for people who are at more risk's insurance cheaper.
Insurance companies will win a bit here. The size of the pool of people they can sell to will grow, but they also will lose the ability to kick people off just because they get sick, so we'll win. Rates for people who already have health insurance should stay the same. Pocket costs for people who are uninsured should go down, since they'll have insurance. Hospitals, right now, tend to soak people who don't have insurance because, a lot of those people won't pay (they are too poor and the hospitals are required to treat them). Hospitals right now, charge anyone who hasn't negotiated the price ahead of time (people with insurance) really high rates to offset the risk of them not paying. Some people won't pay, some will pay, some will pay some.
The biggest benefits will be for people with pre-existing conditions who will be able to get insurance. Tax credits will also help low income people get insured. Oddly, you may also see some saving on things like loan rates and credit card interest rates. Why? Because 50% of personal bankruptcies are from medical expenses. In effect, part of the interest rates we pay reflects the risk that we'll default.
I would have liked to see a simpler system. Ideas were floated to just expand Medicare and/or Medicaid. Dollar for dollar, those systems deliver great healthcare, but there weren't enough votes there for that, partially, because yes, the insurance companies were lobbying for a system that left them a piece of the pie. I suspect, once it gets implemented, you'll see some bipartisan efforts to reform it, but for the Democrats, politically, they'd rather have something in place to get people insured first so they get healthcare. Like most social safety net issues, most people don't like to give them up once they have them, so, I think they are betting that if they can actually get it in place they can fix it later.
At least that's my understanding of it.
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Nate
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Frank
2957 posts
Oct 08, 2013
11:15 AM
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Everyone from all political faiths want to help those who "TRULY" (for real)"no bullsh#@" can't help themselves...
The FRAUD and CORRUPTION that erupts from these programs are (insidious) and the Government seemly turns the other way - can someone say 'VOTES'!!!
Many people sit at home who CAN WORK but don't need to get a job...because the government will pay them to walk to the mailbox and grab a check...That is literally their job.
And once they get that check - all of a sudden, they are well enough to go shopping till its all spent and suddenly their back hurts again and they got to go sit on the couch till the next check arrives.
As far as This new Government Health Care - The CORRUPTION will be pitifully rampant - but as long as a political party benefits from the program, corruption or not - then It's ALL good - even the BAD :)
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Rick Davis
2526 posts
Oct 08, 2013
11:26 AM
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Wow, the ignorance about ACA is depressing. Please do a bit a research with documented sources. 15 common myths (some I see here) are debunked in this link.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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Rick Davis
2527 posts
Oct 08, 2013
11:51 AM
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Congress has not exempted itself from Obamacare. In fact, the law requires that Congress MUST participate in the exchanges, which is a requirement not placed on any other American who already has insurance.
If you have insurance and you like it you won't even be involved with Obamacare, so stop worrying. The exchanges are for people who don't have insurance, and no, you are not required to pay extra for drug counselling or prenatal counselling. No, there are no death panels. No, it won't lead to corruption any more than the present system leads to corruption, because the providers are the same regular commercial insurance carriers like Blue Cross.
Insurance companies are spending billions to defeat Obamacare because they will no longer be able to deny coverage to poor, sick, and desperate customers. That is where all these hoary myths come from. We are the only developed nation on earth without universal health care. It works in Israel, England, Canada, Japan, etc, etc, even Massachusetts! It works everywhere except in the minds of some Americans.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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AZBluesHarper
34 posts
Oct 08, 2013
12:58 PM
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Rick, I'm very sorry but I’m compelled to point out that your "documented source" is one of, if not THE most liberal organizations around. Perhaps you knew that...perhaps not. Perhaps in your eyes, they ARE the only place you can get "fair and balanced" views. Perhaps I beg to differ!
And that’s precisely the reason that I believe this type of thread should NEVER, EVER be on this forum!! Regardless how it starts out, it seems to always morph itself into unpleasant dialogue. What purpose does it serve, except to pit one member's political view against another and risk alienating friendships that were forged through our love of the modern blues harmonica. I love this site as a way of escaping the everyday political "I'm right, you're wrong" discussions. Rick, every time you post something, I immediately jump right to it because I love what you contribute and I learn a lot from it… “it”, being anything and everything about the harp. I don't need to know (and more importantly, I don’t want to know) what another member’s political leanings are because I don't want it to influence how I think about them. I’m here to learn about the harp and how to become the best harp player I can be. Just my two cents worth…
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Rick Davis
2529 posts
Oct 08, 2013
1:08 PM
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AZbluesharper, click through to their sources! it's all there. Links go to FactChack.org and from there all the way to the the law itself.
Here is an example: click on their source for the first item and you get this very complete and detailed factual rebuttal of one of the myths.
It takes a little work but that is the only way to cut though all the BS.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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Buzadero
1145 posts
Oct 08, 2013
1:38 PM
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Without getting into the weeds of the emotional opinions, anyone can cite so-called "unbiased" and "impartial" websites, sources etc.
You're only as good as your own opinion and information gathering. There is any number of sites that can favor your own opinion. It's how you come to your own conclusion that matters (and then, still only to you).
I can say "Fox News is tainted for the Right". Or, I can say, "FactCheck is owned by so-and-so". Here is a website that "tells the truth" :
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2923825/posts
And then you'll poo-poo FreeRepublic and show a site that Snopes or FactCheck or somebody else said they were biased. And on it goes.
I humbly submit that it is all crap. ESPECIALLY on the neutral ground of a harmonica website.
There are no unbiased websites, reporters, bloggers, politicians, or simple citizens that don't have an agenda or a lean. We have so much at our fingertips that anyone can come up with anything to support their own opinions.
Simply citing sources is a form of blissful ignorance unto itself.
Truth is in the eye of the beholder.
Can we just go back to overblows, whether white dudes have soul and teasing GreyOwl about his recent birthday?
Don't make me unleash the dreaded Nacoran.......
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~Buzadero
Underwater Janitor, Patriot
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Rick Davis
2530 posts
Oct 08, 2013
1:54 PM
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Buz no... fact are facts. They can be proven. Facts are not in the "eye of the beholder." That would be opinion.
In politics I try to debate only matters of fact. Everybody is entitled to their own opinions and I respect that. But when they assert something that is provably false I try to provide the facts with sources. I try to do it in a polite way, without name-calling or insults.
I encourage everybody to research the issues beyond what we see in opinion journalism and advocacy websites. If you are concerned about what is really in the law you can read it. It is all public.
About 900 pages in PDF. Way less than War And Peace, and it is seachable so you can find what you are looking for quickly.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Last Edited by Rick Davis on Oct 08, 2013 2:03 PM
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Buzadero
1146 posts
Oct 08, 2013
2:04 PM
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I see my pathetic attempt to implore "let it go" needed to be spelled out to the level of the most obvious?
Or, you just can't?
Either way, I tried.......
I can get all the political crap I ever want from a myriad of communities that run the full spectrum from .mil all the way to @fuckinghippies.com. Forgive me, I keep this window open when I'm in my office because I don't have to hear more than a few misc ramblings of politics.
You've said before that in some previous life you were in the politics business. I enjoy you in spite of this, but it does make me think of you as never going to be neutral.
Indulge me, but citing the healthcare website is one thing. Telling me that FactCheck.org is some kind of pure source sends me off into the night looking for the next pub. But, lest your big ole panties get wadded, I would say the same about any other site if it was referenced on this front porch.
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~Buzadero
Underwater Janitor, Patriot
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Zadozica
276 posts
Oct 08, 2013
2:19 PM
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Nate, this ain't car insurance in that you pay in all these premiums and these is a good chance you will never have a claim. Not so with health insurance. Over your lifetime, you will consume more than you contribute because everything about it is expensive. That goes for everyone if they live a standard lifetime. That means, there is not enough money to pay for it all.
BTW - health coverage is not health care when there are not enough doctors to see you or you have to wait 6 - 12 months for an apt.
They should be minting doctors like stamps.
Good luck to us all!
Now back to practicing some JLH
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Rick Davis
2531 posts
Oct 08, 2013
2:25 PM
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Neutral? I don't understand. How is neutrality a virtue? I like digging into stuff and understanding its details.
Buz, I think is is a bad idea to make the debate about me (and my neutrality) or anybody else.
If you think I am always a down-the-line lefty you are way wrong. For example, I am a strong supporter of the 2nd Amendment. I am a gun owner, shooter, and collector, and I a have availed myself of the right to keep and bear arms. I am not neutral on that at all.
I'm not neutral on amps, harps, blues, dogs, sports, cities, cars, motorcycles, food, etc, etc.
PLEASE do not take this as an invitation to debate ANY of these things! ...except amps, harps, and blues.
Thanks for the interesting discussion.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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Buzadero
1147 posts
Oct 08, 2013
2:34 PM
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Brother Richard,
I'm coming to Denver to kiss you square on the mouth.
The Porch lives.....
Note: This is not to imply any stance either way on gender-preferences or attraction thereof.
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~Buzadero
Underwater Janitor, Patriot
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Zadozica
277 posts
Oct 08, 2013
2:35 PM
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Read it? Congress didn't even read the darn thing.
(Sigh... Here goes many hours of my life I won't be getting back.....)
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Frank
2959 posts
Oct 08, 2013
2:38 PM
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Can someone please explain - why the Government implements these Massive programs that seem written in ways for fraud to easily take place, especially >when Lawyers get involved<...and to top it off, The Government will hire only a (tiny portion of overseers) to protect the Public from criminals and leech's abusing the funds and services? What gives ya'll :)
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Rick Davis
2532 posts
Oct 08, 2013
2:38 PM
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Buz, LOL! I'll meet you at Gravity Music Gear.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Last Edited by Rick Davis on Oct 08, 2013 2:43 PM
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Buzadero
1148 posts
Oct 08, 2013
2:42 PM
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Ha. Deal.
At first I though it was some kind of veiled gay-bar reference.
Until I realized you mean my idiot brother. ( I hope )
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~Buzadero
Underwater Janitor, Patriot
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Rick Davis
2533 posts
Oct 08, 2013
2:46 PM
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Buz, I've been doing business with your bro for about 7 years. Let's meet up there and crank the crap out of his vintage amps.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Last Edited by Rick Davis on Oct 08, 2013 2:47 PM
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Buzadero
1149 posts
Oct 08, 2013
2:48 PM
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Maybe that can get a smile out of him for a change.....
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~Buzadero
Underwater Janitor, Patriot
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Frank
2960 posts
Oct 08, 2013
2:52 PM
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Greg asked in his opening thread...
(Hope this helps!)
Well? should we take a poll :)
Last Edited by Frank on Oct 08, 2013 2:55 PM
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nacoran
7213 posts
Oct 08, 2013
9:37 PM
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Zadozica, I know lots of people on public health care, both Medicare and Medicaid. Wait times for appointments are a couple of days (or less if it's an emergency).
As for costs of insurance over time, I've got to respectfully take issue with your math. If health insurance companies were paying out more than they took in they would go bankrupt (or at least quickly leave the business). Sure, they make lots of small payouts for doctors visits, but they use their size to negotiate much better deals with health care providers than individuals get.
Frank, yes, there is corruption in everything. There are corrupt cops, but we don't give up on the idea of cops. There are Welfare cheats, there are tax cheats, there are people cheating on tests in school. There are companies that dump chemicals where they aren't supposed to and there are people who beat their children. There is waste in military spending. There is fraud in funding road construction. I suppose we could disband the cops and the military, and close the colleges, and sterilize everyone (or let companies do that by dumping chemicals everywhere and scrap the road systems, but we don't, because all those things provide benefits to society. There are lots of ways to fight fraud, and actually, the U.S., compared to most countries, does a really good job at it- not great, but I can drive to the store and not have to take bribe money to get past a police checkpoint and not drive into a pothole (well, once, er, no twice, but once was early spring and they had it patched with a couple hours of my calling it in, and the other time they were redoing the whole road). I'm pretty sure Canada isn't going to successfully invade us (which is a good thing for me, because the last time the Commonwealth had a plan for invading the U.S. they planned to go straight through Albany! (Seriously, up until WWII they had contingency plans for that! Lol. Come to think of it, they tried that in the Revolution too.)
Buz, I'm with you. I think the temperature in here is getting a little warm. The previous thread went pretty well. My biggest problem with political threads is twofold- One, I have a hard time letting political things slide, and two, when they show up on the forum, it's my job to check in and make sure everyone is playing nice, which means I can't just skip them. If anyone wants to debate health care with me further, or public corruption or the merits of forced sterilization of guitar players, feel free to private message me on FB. :) Night everyone.
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Nate
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