Barley Nectar
118 posts
Oct 03, 2013
12:54 PM
|
First off, is there any charts that show the actual note that each reed is tuned to, for all your major diatonics. I have a chromatic tuner but don't know what reed is what note. I use Lee Oskars and now Hering blues so whatever their tuning is, is what I'm looking for.
Also, can a set of reed plates in the key of Emaj. be tuned down to to a Dmaj or Cmaj? I have several Hering Emaj plates that I may try and retune.
I never got serious about tuning reeds, messed around with it a few times. Looks like time to leran...Thanks BN
Last Edited by Barley Nectar on Oct 03, 2013 12:54 PM
|
JInx
555 posts
Oct 03, 2013
1:15 PM
|
Prolly not a good idea to attempt tuning your harps just yet. If you can't figure out the pitch of each reed, fine tuning them is going to be way beyond your abilities. Read up on the major scale. Charts for note layout are only a google click away.
----------
Sun, sun, sun
Burn, burn, burn
Soon, soon, soon
Moon, moon, moon
|
MP
2946 posts
Oct 03, 2013
1:46 PM
|
here is the Lee Oskar tuning chart
+10 +8 +10 +10 +8 +10 +10 +8 +10 +10 BLOW
+10 +10 +8 +10 +10 +10 +8 +10 +10 +10 DRAW
your calibration on your tuner should be set to A440
Lee Oskars are ET tuned. I may be wrong but i think Hering Black Blues are also in ET tuning.
an example of Tempered tuning would be as follows. There are several variations of tempered/compromise tuning. these reference tunings are in a Lee Oskar
repair manual.
+10 0 +10 +10 0 +10 +10 0 +10 +1 BLOW
+10+10 0 +10 -5 +5 0 +10 0 +10 DRAW
----------
MP
affordable reed replacement and repairs.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
click user name [MP] for info-
repair videos on YouTube.
you can reach me via Facebook. Mark Prados
Last Edited by MP on Oct 03, 2013 1:52 PM
|
MP
2947 posts
Oct 03, 2013
1:56 PM
|
PS.
tuning is an art form. you will make lots of mistakes learning how to tune. you will break reeds. LOTS of them. you will wind up trying to tune reeds that are beyond repair and need to be replaced.
best of luck. Mark
----------
MP
affordable reed replacement and repairs.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
click user name [MP] for info-
repair videos on YouTube.
you can reach me via Facebook. Mark Prados
|
FreeWilly
355 posts
Oct 03, 2013
2:46 PM
|
I'm thinking 'bout retuning a couple of harps as well. Would like to pose the same question the OP asks, but more specific: what is better, tuning a harp a half step up or a half step down? I'm willing to make a Db, and have two donor candidates :)
I'd like to sacrifice a D, but I'm thinking that tuning it up is less of a risk.
|
MP
2949 posts
Oct 03, 2013
3:36 PM
|
Tuning a C up half step is much less of a risk.
----------
MP
affordable reed replacement and repairs.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
click user name [MP] for info-
repair videos on YouTube.
you can reach me via Facebook. Mark Prados
|
arzajac
1158 posts
Oct 03, 2013
3:55 PM
|
Barley Nectar: Are you looking for a chart with the names of the notes?
http://overblow.com/?menuid=26
Here's something I wrote about tuning a harp.
Tune a harmonica using your ears and a simple chromatic tuner
If you want to make radical changes to the tuning of a harp, I suggest trying it out with Blu-Tak first. You can tune down a whole harp (or a single reed) up to 5 semitones with it. It will stay in place and stay in tune for a very very long time, too.
Tuning a reed up or down a semitone makes it respond "differently". I mean doing it by filling brass here, although a blob of BluTak suppresses vibrations and has it's own contribution to how the harp plays.
A trick that some may use when trying to get overdraws to play smoothly is to tune the uncooperative reed up 50-100 cents or more and then tune it back down. Doesn't take much on those high reeds...
But that's a band-aid solution. Just thought it would be interesting to mention to contribute to the conversation. If you retune a harp up or down one semitone, expect it to play differently. Expect to need to set the reeds differently. I would suggest a prerequisite to doing this is to know how to set reed shape since you will be altering the shape by doing this kind of retuning. If you don't know how to adjust reed shape, I guarantee you will make your harp unplayable -- unless you use the BluTak method. That's mostly benign. Mostly. But it is 100% reversible.
----------
Custom overblow harps. Harmonica service and repair.
Last Edited by arzajac on Oct 03, 2013 3:57 PM
|
Barley Nectar
120 posts
Oct 04, 2013
8:23 AM
|
Wow, Just went to BO.com. If you guys are tring to freek me out, it's working. Looks like a course in music therory is needed.
OK MP, on the LO tuning you posted, the +10 and so on, is cents above the note that the reed represents. Is that right? This deveation from the note makes it brighter when a + is used. LO's are tuned to 441 IIRC so they play in tune when you naturally draw them down. But you set the tunner to 440, middle C. Am I on track here?
I never paid atention to what reed makes what note, to many different key of harps to fuss with such things. I just play. I would like to learn enough to repair and maintain my harps though. Ya gotta keep goin...BN
Last Edited by Barley Nectar on Oct 04, 2013 8:27 AM
|
Baker
334 posts
Oct 04, 2013
8:41 AM
|
Hey Barley,
if you're just looking to find out which notes correspond to which holes on a diatonic there a nifty tool here. You can just change the key (top left) and it give's you all the notes: http://www.truechromatic.com/harp-o-matic.php
There's a fairly comprehensive list of tuning charts here:
http://www.harmonicaspace.com/harmonica-forum/maintenance-repair-customization/diatonic-harmonica-tunings--an-update
The +10 etc does refer to the number of cents above and below the note in which the hole represents. The sort description:
Equal Temperament tuning has every note tuned to 0 – This will sound better when playing single note melodies etc.
Just Intonation is tuned so the chords sound smoother but may sound a bit off when playing single note melodies.
Most harps now are tuned somewhere in the middle (Compromised) – Different harps have different ways of achieving this. – See charts above
If you want to experiment with tuning a harp to a different key I'd recommend using "Blu-Tack" or "Poster putty" in the states to lower the pitch of the reed. This is less dangerous and reversible if it all goes wrong.
However if you want a harp in a different key it's probably much easier and less painful to just buy one. :)
EDIT: Sorry, missed arzajac's comments about Blu-Tack.
Hope this is some help.
Last Edited by Baker on Oct 04, 2013 8:49 AM
|
Barley Nectar
121 posts
Oct 05, 2013
7:53 AM
|
Baker, Thank you for the tuning explaination in laymens terms. Very helpfull. And thanks too all who posted...BN
|
Thievin' Heathen
254 posts
Oct 05, 2013
5:46 PM
|
MP - That's the 1st time I have seen those numbers for Lee Oskars. I assumed ET would equate to "0" all the way up the scale. And, they seem to be breaking with convention with the 440hz(not 443) setting. I have been using the Seydel tuning software on "Compromise" setting on all of my old LOs and like the results. Reading at 1 of Baker's links (above-Thanks) reveals the Seydel's compromise is almost the same as 19 Limit JI which probably explains why I like it.
Your point from another post is well taken. I have wasted many hours twerking on harmonicas that would have certainly yielded better returns if the time had been spent practicing scales, rather than destroying harmonicas.
This tuning stuff can become an obsession. One of the things I find particularly perplexing is the cent offsets for alternate tunings. It would seem that the offsets are specific to the notes of a chord. If you change the note, i.e. Paddy Richter, Country, Power Bender, etc., now what becomes of the cent offsets? I have not found that chart. It seems to me that if you raise the 3 blow from G to A, that +2 is no longer valid. Or is it all by ear at that point?
|
JInx
563 posts
Oct 05, 2013
10:09 PM
|
Paddy Richter, country, power bender ...it doesn't matter. You are either tuning to the natural harmonic overtone series or not. ET and everything else is tempered.
----------
Sun, sun, sun
Burn, burn, burn
Soon, soon, soon
Moon, moon, moon
|
Thievin' Heathen
256 posts
Oct 06, 2013
12:30 PM
|
Jinx, I don't want to hertz you feelings, but I think I'll hold out for the mathematical explanation.
If I can't get it that way, I'll just zero in on the altered notes with my little Korg tuner until the day I achieve the 6th level of tuning enlightenment.
|
JInx
566 posts
Oct 06, 2013
1:54 PM
|
Hey Heathen, no sweat. You might get there just fine following your numerical cent prescribed offsets, but a little understanding and some careful listening will take you much further. Tuning really is an auditory function more so than visual, IMHO anyway. It's the old give a heathen a fish, teach a heathen to fish parable ; )
----------
Sun, sun, sun
Burn, burn, burn
Soon, soon, soon
Moon, moon, moon
Last Edited by JInx on Oct 06, 2013 1:56 PM
|
Thievin' Heathen
257 posts
Oct 07, 2013
8:30 PM
|
"Teach Me to Fish" is a bit of a stretch. How 'bout, gave me some wiki-bait.
I was hoping for a fishing lesson.
|
