1847
1116 posts
Sep 24, 2013
10:40 PM
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kingley says
Use a little common sense and don't modify anything!
very good advice!
all my amps are stock.
having said that, what garry says is also true
a cheap chinese speaker does not compare with what we use to get here in the good old usa. i am not saying that the chinese cannot make a good speaker, just in a low budget item,you get what you pay for.
i find with a lower watt amp the 12 ax 7 is quite often
the best choice.
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some folks... if they don't know you can't tell'em
i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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stokeblues
42 posts
Sep 24, 2013
10:57 PM
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Dave Barrett's book on harmonica amplifiers has a lot of good advice on amps and swapping valves
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1847
1117 posts
Sep 24, 2013
11:18 PM
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super bee...
the hohner video was filmed at the anaheim convention center
it is considered an "Arena"
it is one of the largest venues around.
think " frampton comes alive" lol
all with his precious little champ
he wasn't even mic'd up!
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some folks... if they don't know you can't tell'em
i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
Last Edited by 1847 on Sep 24, 2013 11:19 PM
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SuperBee
1440 posts
Sep 24, 2013
11:30 PM
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Yeah. And...
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BigAl
5 posts
Sep 25, 2013
2:47 AM
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Rick,
Your vids of the jam sound great. Great performance, tone, and balance. This says a lot about the performers and the guy running the jam. Unfortunately, this is not always the case. What happens at a lot of jams is different. I feel for any musician that their only performing outlet is a loud, uninviting stage. Doesn't seem to be the case on your stage. Props.
As for the VHT, changing to higher quality tubes did the trick for mine. In single ended amps such as the VHT, It pays to try different tubes to see what u like, the simple circuit highlights the tonal differences between even tubes of the same type and brand.
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1847
1122 posts
Sep 25, 2013
9:25 AM
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super bee.....
i was using humor
the conversation we are having is in regards to
is a 5 watt amp gig able? i contend it is.
on occasion i can use one with out a mic......
sometimes two small amps work very well
sometimes you have to mic up
sometimes a bassman or harp king are the better choice
it's nice to have choices.
the hohner booth is at a music convention
i play seydel, i would not be caught dead at the hohner booth,
however quite a few people would consider that a prestigious gig
yes it is a gig, and he is using a bedroom amp, with a full band.
the convention center is an arena, every conceivable instrument is on display there
to think that it is a quiet environment like being in your bedroom
is not the case, yes they have the noise patrol enforcing a
noise limit.... if you get caught they will taser you spray mace in your face
and if you draw a crowd like kim wilson does
they will disperse them by firing bean bags from a shotgun.
no that band was not playing super loud.
but he was on a gig with a full band using a fender champ, no trouble being heard.
i have posted several examples of a small amp being used,
both mic'd and unmic'd, at both gigs and jam session environments
to imply a small amp does not have tone or cannot be made
usable is in my book ludicrous
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some folks... if they don't know you can't tell'em
i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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SuperBee
1442 posts
Sep 25, 2013
2:05 PM
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Yeah but but but...why point at me?
What'd I do?
I never said you can't do it...man. Did I? I musta done...
I said that clip was a good example of the boxes you gotta tick to make it work...
Because you sure can get a gig where it won't work
Arena. Yeah.
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Rick Davis
2436 posts
Sep 25, 2013
2:32 PM
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BigAl, I am the guy running the jam.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Tip Jar
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Harpaholic
371 posts
Sep 25, 2013
3:17 PM
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Maybe the Champ was miced in the rear of the amp, It's possible!
If all jams were run like Rick's, the world would be a much happier place.
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1847
1128 posts
Sep 25, 2013
3:30 PM
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Because you sure can get a gig where it won't work
here is a gig where it is not working
i am using two amps, i can hear myself just fine
but it is not projecting at all . the amp next to me is louder than heck
it is also a good sounding amp a tone king i believe. 20 watts 1 12 inch speaker
but that amp is loud!, luckily for me there is a sonny jr sitting right behind my rig
even that was just barely loud enough. i would of ran all three together
cept the little sonny amp only has one input. 3 amps and 6 eight inch speakers
that would be something ! every room is different what works in one will not always
work in another if i would of moved my amp to the front of the stage
they may of been enough to make it work.
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some folks... if they don't know you can't tell'em
i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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HarpNinja
3486 posts
Sep 26, 2013
5:49 AM
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Stock speaker is ok. Tubes for sure need to be switched...$50 or so in mods and you can get some boutique quality tone.
I used the 6 for stage volume in a rock coverband...hardly needed anything in the monitors ever. Not ideal, as it is just as easy to use pedals with a monitor only, but the sound is fantastic!
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Mantra Customized Harmonicas
My Website
Last Edited by HarpNinja on Sep 26, 2013 5:50 AM
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1847
1133 posts
Sep 26, 2013
11:46 AM
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Maybe the Champ was miced in the rear of the amp, It's possible!
yes it is possible, that is a great way to mic an amp
but it is not likely.
a band asked meet to play a gig with them
i agreed if we would do a couple of rehearsals
the first practice, i walked in with my champ only
you should of seen the look on the drummers face
he was expecting a loud bassman, i laughed and
explained, you didn't know i was professional. he was happy that we
would not be blasting. we had guitar bass and drums, and harmonica.
the guitar player was using an ampeg 20 watt amp. i was slightly louder
than everyone else. cause i should be. mostly i am laying out
you never want to overplay. so when i play a fill it is just a tiny bit louder than everyone else, just a teeny bit. the solos ride on top
then get out.... with a 4 piece i have to play more than i would normally
if the guitar player is singing, it is harder for him to plug the holes.
we are at the perfect volume, the band sets the level
i am laying out, when i come in i am just a hair louder
well what happens next? the band turns up just a hair.
then it is my turn to solo. guess what? i cannot turn up any louder.
how cool is that?... so either they turn down or i don't solo.
IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO PLAY ANY LOUDER.
that is the beauty of a smaller amp
but that is ok we are plenty loud.
the following week, we will have an additional guitar player
this makes it extremely difficult, to use the champ by itself without being mic'd up. or using another small amp. but it is not impossible.
the picture i posted at the cantina, it looks like no one else is playing "you can see the drummer" but it is a jam, there are always 2 guitar players at jams.
so what is the secret there?.. . 2 things the room it self
high ceiling tile floor lots of glass windows. the only way to play that room is at a low volume, and we had a sound nazi, making everyone constantly aware of the volume. i had no trouble being heard, however.........
the following month we would have a keyboard player, there is now no chance my little champ is going to cut thru with an added member no way jose.
even though we are trying to maintain a lower volume.
there is no way that i will be micd up in that venue,
i simply brought another small amp you see in the other picture.
the sound nazi turned my amp down. said i was too loud lol
.
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some folks... if they don't know you can't tell'em
i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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BigAl
6 posts
Sep 26, 2013
1:35 PM
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Harpaholic,
I agree, no doubt! Nice job Rick.
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1847
1143 posts
Sep 27, 2013
12:52 PM
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ok here is a cool little rig
what i like to do is turn up my champ i'll have the bassman on
but turned down, depending on the room, and how loud the band decides to play
we play the same places quite frequently, pretty much know what will work where
and what will not work so well. first sets more often than not are a bit lower in volume.
that is fine by me.
as the volume creeps up, like it will tend to do, i simply employ more bassman
if the band or jammers insist on getting louder, that is fine by me.
i simply turn off the champ, and use my anti feedback pedal
straight in to the bassman. that pedal works best with a larger amp
not so well with my champ........ that is how you play short stop, if
the leadoff batter is going to bunt.... you come in closer to the plate,
if he is a threat to hit it over your head, you move back towards the outfield.
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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1847
1146 posts
Sep 28, 2013
8:06 AM
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….Then head off to vegas pawn
Every thing I own, put it all down on the Oakland raiders to beat the broncos on Monday night 9-23-2013
DENVER 37 OAKLAND 21 OUCH! LOL
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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timeistight
1389 posts
Sep 28, 2013
8:16 AM
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That's a Fender Bassman? It looks kind of funny in the photo.
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stokeblues
44 posts
Sep 28, 2013
12:28 PM
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Ok,so iv'e got three valves! The stock 12ax7 which is loud at like half a turn 7 o'clock,the 12ay7 which is loudest before feedback at like 8 o'clock ish and the 12au7 which is 10 o'clock feedback and i can't decide of which i like best.The stock valve is a more clean sound to my ear ,which really cuts through with other instruments but the 12au7 is the more over driven Chicago 50's sound! The question i'm asking is just because i can get higher on the volume dial is it louder because i just can't tell? sounds similar in volume but not in tone if you get my drift!!!
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Barley Nectar
82 posts
Sep 29, 2013
7:02 AM
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This is something that is greatly misunderstood on the web. When you change the gain structure by changeing tubes, you do not alter the volume level at which the rig feeds back
Example: You are in a room playing your amp at max volume before feedback, the V knob is on 3. Vi in the amp is a 12AX7. Now, in the same room, you change V1 to a 12AU7. So, in order to get back to the same (just before feedback) volume level. You must turn the volume knob up to 6. At 6, the amp is NO LOUDER then is was at 3, when the HIGHER GAIN 12AX7 was installed.
As Stokesblues noted, the tone and feel of the amp may change. Also, the amp may become more controlable as far as working in the "Sweet Spot" is concerned. My defination or the "Sweet Spot" is the point on the V knob where you can go from clean to dirty by simply changeing your attack on the harp.
IMO, The tube swap "Gain Game" works well on big amps but is kinda useless on small amps. YMMV...BN
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1847
1148 posts
Sep 29, 2013
10:00 AM
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yes it is a fender bassman, it is just on it's side
makes a great table that way.
i almost always do that, i can put another amp on top or my pedal board or my harp case.
i suppose i should turn the champ sideways
so it would look just as funny, sometimes i do.
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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stokeblues
45 posts
Sep 29, 2013
10:43 AM
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Thanks Barley,you have confirmed what i had concluded and i think i may go back to stock,i c90'd the practice the other night and it cut through very well especially the d,e harps,even though i felt i was struggling to hear the c,a harps when i played it taped very well and yes i may be the only person left using c90 tapes,heard all the jokes yadder yadder yadder,once again can i apologize to who ever started the thread as i never meant to change the original posts direction,cheers mark
Last Edited by stokeblues on Sep 29, 2013 10:44 AM
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Barley Nectar
84 posts
Sep 29, 2013
8:35 PM
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LOL, I bought a bunch of blank cassettes a while back. I also picked up a Zoom H2. All the Zoom does is PISS ME OFF! Love the cassette. Set your levels and hit RECORD. Why can't the digital POS be like that? The further we go, the behinder we get...BN
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1847
1151 posts
Sep 30, 2013
9:33 AM
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ok, i show up to rehearsal, with my 5 watt amp
mic it up with my fireball, usually it is not necessary to mic up
in the studio, but this group tends to play LOUD.
so we start off and the band leader says to my dear friend eddie
you need to turn that bass up.
the bass rig has 8 10"s and 2 15"s........... the 15"s look like 18'a next to my champ lol
good thing it was "ONLY' 800 watts. rotfl
so i grab the fireball. and play thru the p.a.
sounds pretty good. i know that mic does not get much respect around here
but mine was stolen, and i replaced it, so apparently i think it is a great mic
heck i have two of them.... what do i know.
so i am not getting to play much here, but it was fun for awhile to mic up the drums
with that little mic. if you are going to play that loud, you need to mic the drum!
so what do you do when the band leader calls out a mark ford tune?
you do what any self respecting harmonica player with low self esteam does
you go out to the car and grab the kinder antifeedback pedal and a bassman.
like i said before it's about cooperation, if the mountain won't come to Mohammed
then Mohammad must go to the mountain, you now have my full cooperation.... bring it on
luckily for me a friend had asked to borrow my amp just the day before
so i had just put higher gain tubes in the preamp, and that sucker is much louder.
the band was shocked, i could get so loud.
in the end we agreed we could never ever never ever ever
play that loud in a club. so hopefully ..."i have my fingers crossed" and my earplugs handy
we can turn down a notch or two.
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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garry
446 posts
Sep 30, 2013
4:41 PM
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Barley: what problems are you having with your zoom? i pretty much hit the record button and walk away. never a problem.
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stokeblues
46 posts
Oct 01, 2013
12:26 PM
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The C-90 Blues Band!!!!!!
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Rick Davis
2466 posts
Oct 01, 2013
12:41 PM
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I bought the Zoom H4 when it was first introduced and it worked really well. A good product. When the Zoom Q3 video recorder was introduced with the same digital audio I traded up for that, and when the Zoom Q3HD was available I went for that. I've been very happy with all three Zoom recorders. All the videos I put up with the great stereo sound were recorded on the Q3HD.
Barley, what is up with your H2?
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Tip Jar
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Barley Nectar
93 posts
Oct 01, 2013
3:07 PM
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Garry I just don't use it enough. I should take it to every jam/show, but you gotta watch it doesn't grow legs. I'm not good with sound files either for the same reasons...BN
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Rarko
48 posts
Oct 02, 2013
5:12 AM
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Ok, my VHT is coming this weekend!
I have one new 6V6 sovtek tube, is it good or maybe I should by a JJ 6v6? and I will buy 5751 tube, I can get sovtek, JJ tesla,Electro harmonix... I cant realy afford NOS tubes, RCA, etc. in europe they are very expensive :(
So, is it difficult to swap tube? I never did it...
And last question: how do you guys handle with your VHT (which input you use, HI or LOW, what about Tone, Volume, Gain...)? (mic I have is Shure 440SL with CM 99A86)
Thanks guys :)
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timeistight
1395 posts
Oct 02, 2013
6:16 AM
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Don't change anything until you've played it stock for a couple of months. You can't know whether you're improving it until you've studied how it sounds unmodified.
Last Edited by timeistight on Oct 02, 2013 6:53 AM
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Rick Davis
2475 posts
Oct 02, 2013
6:43 AM
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Timeistight is right. Play it first to get a feel for the amp. It is pretty good right out of the box.
The benefits of a couple of minor tweaks are well known. Your first mod should be a good 5751 preamp tube. I don't like the JJ 5751 because it sounds to me like a detuned 12AX7 with no added warmth. The 5751 I like most is the JAN Philips tube which sells for $35.95 at Tube Depot. What is the price in Europe?
Tube Depot 5751 page
That will settle the amp down and make it easier to manage. As far as settings, just try it and find your own preference. I used the low input and did not use the Pull Boost, which bypasses the tone control. If you use Pull Boost the tone control no longer works.
It is a fine little harp amp. Later you can think about changing the speaker. Your Sovtek 6V6 will work fine in the amp, but the difference in tone will be very slight. The 5751 will make more of a difference.
Stock amp with Shure CM mic:
Modified amp
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Tip Jar
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stokeblues
47 posts
Oct 04, 2013
9:14 AM
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Hey Rarko,are u in blighty then and could you gives us a heads up on what you paid and where you got the VHT from dude? Iv'e put the stock 12ax7 back in the EVJ,think it sounds far better especially on the top end of the harp and its still pretty easy to make it dirty enough through cupping the mike a bit more
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Kingley
3168 posts
Oct 04, 2013
12:09 PM
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Stokeblues - Mark, you can buy a VHT from here: Thomann - VHT Special 6. I think Thomann can get them to the UK in about 2-3 days. A friend of mine buys loads of stuff from them and never has any problems. So I personally wouldn't hesitate to buy from them and am happy to recommend them to others.
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stokeblues
48 posts
Oct 04, 2013
11:44 PM
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Hi Kingley,that seems a good price £142,for an amp + cover and 3 year warranty,theirs an ultra 0n the bay at the moment!,has any body tried the 12/20 ,big jump in price from the 6 range.I'm still smitten with the EVJ got a gig in a small pub tonight and shes coming so if i can't hear fook all,don't tell me you told me so!!!
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Rarko
51 posts
Oct 05, 2013
2:18 PM
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Hey Stokeblues, I am not in blighty but I am in europe... Kingley gave you good website, I wanted to buy from there because in my country everything is very expensive, VHT 6 was 250 euros, but now you cant find one here (I bought used one from Germany for 75 euros (that around 100$)). But there is 12/20 in one music store, I went there with my friend and he tried a lot of mics (crystals, CM elements...), and we couldnt get good sound! I dont realy know why, maybe with tube swap, new speaker that amp can be usefull...
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Libertad
243 posts
Oct 05, 2013
2:51 PM
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Stokeblues.... I have a VHT Special 6 with the Alnicomagnet Mod Kit and a Lil Buddy speaker. I live in Leek if you want to give it a run. I got mine from Thomann, took less than a week. Cheers Martin
Last Edited by Libertad on Oct 05, 2013 2:53 PM
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stokeblues
49 posts
Oct 06, 2013
1:53 AM
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Hiya Mart,long time no hear bro,yes we'll have to hook up sometime and showcase all my wolf pedals to see what you like.Do you know Pete the bass player from six toes country,hes in my band ,out with him last night!!! Cheers Rarko i'll keep an open mind on the VHT's
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stokeblues
50 posts
Oct 06, 2013
11:03 AM
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Ok boys, GOT ANOTHER QUESTION,if the EVJ and VHT are not loud enough to gig in a lot of places,has any one in forum land chained two together and would that get you twice the volume or would one cause the other to feedback??? cheers mark
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Rick Davis
2517 posts
Oct 06, 2013
11:09 AM
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Stoke, sure, try it.
Run an instrument cable from the unused input jack (NOT THE SPEAKER OUT JACK) on the VHT to an input jack on the Epi. You can go with a Y pedal but it costs money and I don't really hear any tonal advantage.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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stokeblues
51 posts
Oct 06, 2013
10:58 PM
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what sorta di box does the gang recommend ,where from and how much,cheers
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GamblersHand
462 posts
Oct 06, 2013
11:57 PM
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@stokeblues
Cheap y-splitters aren't easy to find in the UK for some reason
http://www.thomann.de/gb/pro_snake_tpy_2003_bpp.htm?sid=769c2b59c45f13cbfb995512bd3cd5c7
Doesn't look ideal - you'd need your amps very close
I have run my VHT from the line out of my Marble Max, at least for one gig. Sounded good.
@Rick Davis, am I likely to blow something up?
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Kingley
3173 posts
Oct 07, 2013
12:19 AM
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You don't need a DI box. You can just go from one amp to the other with a cable as Rick suggests. You can buy all the parts needed for a "Y" cable from Maplin if you wanted to make one. It's just one male jack, 2 female jacks and some cable.
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SuperBee
1465 posts
Oct 07, 2013
12:44 AM
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gH, running the line out into the input of another amp is no biggie. Just don't run the speaker out into the input of another amp. That's a whole different deal-o
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GamblersHand
463 posts
Oct 07, 2013
2:42 AM
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@SuperBee
Thanks - could I ask further questions to help the technically disinclined.
The Max has powersoak/line-out circuitry that enables the amp to work without speaker load.
What does this mean in smallish words? That the Max will still produce volume? That the pre-amp of the driven amp (the VHT) will somehow be bypassed?
thanks in advance
Last Edited by GamblersHand on Oct 07, 2013 2:43 AM
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stokeblues
52 posts
Oct 07, 2013
9:27 AM
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Hiya Kingley,sorry my last post went off on a tangent and i didn't make my self clear ,i,m after a di box to play straight into the pa with my wolf pedals!! I used the EVJ In the pub on Saturday not miked and it cut through very well ,a little close on in the second set but it went well,last night with blues /rock guys i had to mike up because i couldn't be heard and if i'm gonna have to use the pa on a practice i might as well try just the pedals route ,thanks guys
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Rick Davis
2520 posts
Oct 07, 2013
9:50 AM
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@Gamblershand, no. What you describe would be fine, just as Superbee wrote.
It sounds like the power soak / line out will allow you to use no speakers at all in the Marble (usually a no no in a tube amp) and line out to another amp or PA.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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stokeblues
53 posts
Oct 07, 2013
10:02 AM
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CHEERS KINGLEY,i'm on the case mate!!!!
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Rarko
54 posts
Oct 07, 2013
2:24 PM
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Hey guys, I got my VHT 6!! :-)
first impressions: sound is very nice, amp is realy harp friendly, much better then my fender champ 12 (awfull harp amp).
I use Shure 440SL with CM 99A86.
But I have some feedback problems... I only use volume at 9 o'clock because of that. Rick told me that I should stand away from amp as I can, cup realy hard, swap preamp tube for 5751... so I will order that tube soon.
And what about input jacks, HI or LOW... I dont see any difference (maybe just a little less feedback problem with LO input)?
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Rick Davis
2524 posts
Oct 07, 2013
2:29 PM
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Well, don't cup really hard, but try to get a good seal around the mic. You don't have to squeeze in in a death grip.
Try taking the amp to a blues jam in a club. Harp amps tend to do better in bigger rooms.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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1847
3522 posts
Jul 07, 2016
5:22 PM
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while we are on the subject...
lets not overlook this vht mod help thread.
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