Barley Nectar
31 posts
Sep 15, 2013
6:41 PM
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How do you guys deal with Jam Killers. You know the guy. He plays his instrument loud and over top of everyone all the time. His timeing sucks. He can't hear weather or not he is in the right key. He does not practice at home. He will sell his mothers soul, to get on the stage. He makes everyone else sound like crap. And the good players quit playing when he shows up. These guys can't play and will never learn.
I play jams almost exclusivly. We have a couple of Jam Killers around here. How do you get rid of these guys without using lead?...BN
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jbone
1354 posts
Sep 15, 2013
8:05 PM
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I was not so good for YEARS but I always had manners. Some people don't.
My problem was always being heard over the other players. Low watt amps usually don't cut it on stage unless they are lucky to get miced to the p.a.
I was a jam crawler for a few years before I was an ok enough player to be invited into a band or two, and then began co-founding bands and working in a project here and there. The thing is, plenty of folks cover their insecurity with bluster and volume. I've seen all kinds at jams and open mics. They still show up and I've been to jams in about 5 states.
I had to pay some dues to be accepted on a jam stage by a house band or three. That sort of environment is where i learned a lot about playing, manners, different styles and grooves, etc etc. It's also where I met my peers and began the whole band thing.
I seldom hit a jam these days. I am in 2 projects, a duo and a band, and this is pretty fulfilling for me. I am constantly learning- even at 42 years of playing- and in some ways living the dream. I do have standards if I go out to a jam someplace. I may or may not get up, it depends on if I can do anything to improve the situation. It also depends on how the event is run. If it's a play with your favorites deal I usually don't hang around. If it at least has a signup sheet and a half chance I can get up before way late, I will stick.
Your best bet may be to find a partner or 3 and begin working on your own project. Either that or find the perfect jam, and if you do, let me know!
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jpmcbride
10 posts
Sep 15, 2013
9:07 PM
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About the only thing you can do that has any chance of success is to talk to the host band about this guy. Remember, this is a paying gig for the host band and the last thing they want is for jammers to stop showing up because of this.
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Jim McBride
www.bottleoblues.com
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Rick Davis
2359 posts
Sep 15, 2013
9:42 PM
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Well, if a player is ruining the experience for other players -- particularly if the other players are regulars -- I'll try politely talking to him about his playing. Yes, it is a paying gig for the host band it needs to make money for the club. If some guy is driving people away that has to end.
On the other hand, jams attract all kinds of players including those who are less skilled and less experienced. I think part of the fun of jamming is helping bring them along.
My advice is this: Talk to the jam host. He will probably remind everybody on stage that y'all should never step on each others' solos or vocals. If the guy doesn't get the message I'll give him a lecture about sharing the stage and jam etiquette. That usually does it.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Tip Jar
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nacoran
7140 posts
Sep 15, 2013
10:34 PM
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The better jams I've seen have a mixer and the guy in charge can balance things (and maybe even throw a little extra in the loud players monitor so they think they are playing louder than they actually are.)
Probably though, the jam host needs to deal with it. Rick's advice about handling it generically then specifically is a good way to deal with it.
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Nate
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Frank
2735 posts
Sep 16, 2013
5:31 AM
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How do you get rid of these guys without using lead?
Get em drunk, make sure he passes out... Call the police tell them he tried to rob the place and went after some patrons with a knife - that may give you a 30 to 90 day reprieve...If he shows back up, have "lefty" the bouncer tell him in no uncertain terms that, he is no longer allowed on or in the premises :)
Last Edited by Frank on Sep 16, 2013 5:34 AM
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Miles Dewar
1496 posts
Sep 16, 2013
10:19 AM
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Perhaps you all should make an attempt to help correct these mistakes. Everyone sucks at some point in their life, and some people are just more willing to play onstage even when they suck.
I just don't get the attitude that is necessary to declare someone hopeless. Have you tried properly teaching them? If not, then how do you know they cannot learn?
Perhaps it is YOU who needs to learn? To learn how to inspire and teach.
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---Go Chicago Bears!!!---
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Miles Dewar
1497 posts
Sep 16, 2013
10:22 AM
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It took me more than a year to realize Muddy Waters was not a Mexican harmonica player. Was I hopeless?
My situation seems more unforgivable than a bad jammer.
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Rick Davis
2360 posts
Sep 16, 2013
10:58 AM
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At the Ziggies jam most harp players seem to get it. The players who are most often "That Guy" are guitarists. They all think they're Jeff Beck.
Bad drummers are the worst. The entire set becomes cringe-worthy. We had one guy who had never taken a lesson and had never played outside his living room, but he and his girlfriend thought he sounded like Bonham when he played along with Led Zeppelin on the stereo, so they came to the jam. He was awful. I had a polite conversation with him about it and he has not been back. I didn't 86 the guy, I just let him know he needed to step up his skill level before jamming with other live musicians.
The main goal for a jam host is to make money for the club. That means putting on a good show and having fun. Annoying players have to be dealt with. It may alienate the annoying players, but it builds loyalty among the talented regulars who are the life blood of the jam.
("Annoying" does not mean beginner. It means an obnoxious player with very bad habits. We welcome beginners, and the Mile High Blues Society offers seminars on Jam Etiquette.)
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Tip Jar
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Frank
2740 posts
Sep 16, 2013
11:03 AM
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Your right Miles - the success of the new jammer is important to the success of the jam...But Barley is dealing with a ("natural born" Jam Killer) they are a different breed - you must eliminate them :(
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GMaj7
282 posts
Sep 16, 2013
11:56 AM
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Hey Barley,
Where you from??
I just want to make sure its not me....
(Smile)
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Greg Jones
16:23 Custom Harmonicas
greg@1623customharmonicas.com
1623customharmonicas.com
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Miles Dewar
1500 posts
Sep 16, 2013
3:01 PM
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@Frank,
How does one go about reliably-identifying a so-called "natural born" Jam Killer? Is there some book of dichotomous keys for musician-types?
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Frank
2741 posts
Sep 16, 2013
3:26 PM
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The first and foremost clue is the EYES...
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nacoran
7144 posts
Sep 16, 2013
6:29 PM
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Miles, I suspect what we need here is a Venn Diagram or a flow chart. :)
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Nate
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Frank
2742 posts
Sep 16, 2013
6:51 PM
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Warts on the elongated pointed nose, clue #2...
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Barley Nectar
33 posts
Sep 16, 2013
6:55 PM
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Miles, Believe me, we have tried to help these guys out. It's not going to happen. Yes, there are natural born Jam Killers. These guys are not rookies, they have sucked for 20+ yrs. One guy plays strings and drums, he may be phyco. I cringe when he shows. Sometimes I think he may have an AK47 in the car...The other guy plays harp, he is the guy I was mostly refering to. Most jams around here don't have a host band. The bar or an indivdual owns the gear. Whatever happends, happens.
I would LOVE to put a good 4 peice together but my day job makes it tough. I think Franks plan has merrit. Hmm, where's the whisky...BN
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Jehosaphat
545 posts
Sep 16, 2013
8:48 PM
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Yeah i sure empathise with you guys on this.
Our jam has one particulary BAD guitarist(but a nice enuff guy)who just can't play...he has (of course) a pedal board that takes up half the stage.LoL
One really useless Harp player but as he can sing reasonably well he always gets stage time(Our jam is always short on vocalists)
BUT:the worst thing is a lousy drummer.That can really stuff up everything.Why come to a jam if you don't even know what a shuffle is,let alone play one.
Next worst is a Bass player who flat out just can't keep time and really is a closet wannabe lead player.
"I'm not really into 12 bar stuff"
Now that is a statement that goes down well at any blues jam in the world.;-)
Ah jams,you gotta luv 'em.
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Rick Davis
2363 posts
Sep 16, 2013
8:55 PM
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Not a jam killer... A killer jam. This is how it's done.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Tip Jar
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Barley Nectar
34 posts
Sep 16, 2013
9:58 PM
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Now that's good stuff...BN
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Jehosaphat
546 posts
Sep 16, 2013
10:12 PM
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Yeah you are right there Rick,your jam is a harp players paradise.Nick solos' and everybody lays back to give him 'room to move' as it were.
Most harp players end up the minority at a Jam run by guitarists...ergo LOUD
I've tried to get the general sound level down but i am just one voice amongst a slew of SRVs'(slight exaggeration ,but you all know what i mean)
Mind you it might help if i was 6' 7" and 190lb :-)
Last Edited by Jehosaphat on Sep 16, 2013 10:13 PM
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SteamrollinStan
45 posts
Sep 17, 2013
3:54 AM
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Never played out of the man-cave, but being short fused i think i would tell 'em as i see it, share or eff off, any prob's?, good, now stop hogging the stage as people get bored with your constant crap.
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Frank
2744 posts
Sep 17, 2013
5:02 AM
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Clue #3 on identifying a Natural Born Jam Killer is the teeth...
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FreeWilly
329 posts
Sep 17, 2013
5:59 AM
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Ah, Frank. For pietssake man!
Enough of the family album already!
:) Screenshot anyone? :D
Last Edited by FreeWilly on Sep 17, 2013 6:00 AM
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Frank
2745 posts
Sep 17, 2013
6:09 AM
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This is the last clue, his hair... the NBJK will be revealed soon :)
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puri
120 posts
Sep 17, 2013
6:16 AM
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It's pretty much a typical scene here at my friend's blues bar in Bangkok, you know it's a western thing :) asians don't cover their lack of abilities by acting out, they'll just observe and then go home and practice until they feel they're good enough. Every bands at the bar opens for anybody that's good enough everynight, any instrument, and by this it also attracts lots of bad jammers like that. All you need is that one band leader/lead musicians that is/are good enough to cut head bad jammers on stage if they have to - to be there, ideally to support every decents friends/jammers and help make every song worth listening to for customer and most importantly to push that one guy (if it happens) out of the circle without words.
Here are some decent jams from the bar
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Tuckster
1339 posts
Sep 17, 2013
8:01 AM
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Despite being from W. Pa., I've never been to a jam in New Castle-so it wasn't me.:>)
B.N- I feel for you. Maybe you could record his playing at the jam and play it back for him? I have the feeling that he is not open to constructive criticism but you could try that if he is.
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Frank
2746 posts
Sep 17, 2013
8:33 AM
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Here he/she is in all their glory - Behold the Natural Born Jam Killer unveiled, "now you know" :)
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Miles Dewar
1501 posts
Sep 17, 2013
1:57 PM
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Lmao Frank, I think I've seen one.
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Tuckster
1340 posts
Sep 17, 2013
2:35 PM
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If he was a guitar player,you'd simply break his hands.With a harp player, I at first thought to remove his tongue but then thought better and decided lips. I'm sure he's a lip purser.
Last Edited by Tuckster on Sep 17, 2013 2:36 PM
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