snakes
709 posts
Aug 23, 2013
9:25 AM
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Hello fellow harpsters! I am going to purchase these low key harps in the near future => LE, LEb, LD, LC. I play Suzuki Firebreaths and have a full set including the low F, but they offer no other low keys. I am a loyal Rockin' Ron customer so the primary choice for me seems to be whether to purchase the Hohner Thunderbird or the Seydel Classic 1847. I prefer wood combs (so this eliminates some of the other choices on Ron's site) and am leaning toward the Seydel due to a price point delta of close to $40 per harp to the T-bird, but one reason I play Firebreath's over 1847's is because I don't particularly care for the larger hole size of the 1847. The T-bird would have a hole size closer to the Firebreath hole size I am thinking. Has anyone out there played either of these models of lower key harps enough to give me some more food for thought regarding quality, etc. Either to validate my Seydel choice or justify the extra expense of the T-bird. I've already spoken to Ron and got his excellent information, but thought I'd ask the forum. Thanks!
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snakes in Snohomish
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harpburn
76 posts
Aug 23, 2013
9:43 AM
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Got a T-Bird in low C. Love the feel and tone, good volume on the low notes. I've seen some sites that offer marine bands in keys such as low E and Eb, much cheaper than the T-Bird, and with wooden combs.
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6SN7
356 posts
Aug 23, 2013
10:36 AM
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I bought a low F Special 20 a few years back, it took a lot to break it in and I found it to tough usem requiring more breath than usual. I then bought a Thunderbird low F and right out of the box it was very playable and I can move around on it like a regular harp. I highly recommend the Thunderbird, its worth the extra coin for it, like the X-over.
Last Edited by 6SN7 on Aug 23, 2013 11:24 AM
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Grey Owl
272 posts
Aug 23, 2013
11:15 AM
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Hi Snakes, I only own two Low Harps so I'm no expert in what brands are best. The Special 20 in F is very nice Hohner and the Hohner Big River in D is pretty good.
The Big River does takes more breath than the Sp20 but that could be as much to do with the lower key as the respective manufacturing standards.
I own only one Seydel 1847 in normal A (a mildly customed harp)and it is very good. The hole spacing is different to the Hohners but I got used to it pretty quick.
I did a quick review of the Big River in Low D on youtube, so for what it's worth HERE it is:- (The harp is inexpensive here in the UK at around 30 dollars and it's probably cheaper in the States.)
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Last Edited by Grey Owl on Aug 24, 2013 7:22 AM
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nacoran
7051 posts
Aug 23, 2013
12:54 PM
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I've played low tuned Seydels (with a metal comb and a custom wood one) and a LLF Marine Band. They all play well. I haven't played a Thunderbird, but if the hole width is what you are worried about that would be the way to go.
That said, my gig bag is a varied collection of harps. I've got Marine Bands, Lee Oskars, Blues Favorites, Blues Harps (both MS and pre-MS), Special 20s, a GM and probably at least one more harp that I'm forgetting. Hole width bothered me at first, but I think ultimately it's more of like when you lose a tooth when you are a kid. It doesn't really make a difference, but since it's new, it feels weird on your tongue. Heck, once I got used to it, I could go from a Hohner Puck to a Lee Oskar with no problem. Getting over the weirdness may take a few days, but actually being able to play the other one only takes a few minutes to adjust, and once you've done it a couple times it becomes a non-issue.
Now valving... valves drive me nuts.
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Nate
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snakes
710 posts
Aug 23, 2013
1:49 PM
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Thanks everyone who chimed in. Just to reitterate - I am a wood comb guy. I have and play some plastic combs regularly (Big River, SP20, Lee Oskars, Seydel Silver, Suzuki Manji, Suzuki Promaster etc.), but if I am going to spend this kind of money on a non-custom I want to end up with my comb preference. A sincere thanks though for those that suggested otherwise. I actually already play some Harmonic minor tuned Lee Oskars when I play for my worship team. I love the one 1847 I do have, but the holes seem the largest of any harp I have. My main goal with the low keyed harps is to use them for upper end playing (soloing from holes 6-10). There is just a significant difference in price from the Seydel 1847 and the Hohner Thunderbird. Maybe I'll try one of each in two of the keys and then get the last two with my preference. Any more thoughts greatly welcomed.
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snakes in Snohomish
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BronzeWailer
1124 posts
Aug 24, 2013
2:30 AM
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Hi Snakes.
I have a low C and low D in the 1847 and a low E Thunderbird. You're right about the hole size. I compared them side by side and the playing area of the 1847 seems one hole width wider than the T-bird. To my ears the 1847s have a deeper resonance than the T-bird but they are lower of course. If I were to buy another low harp tomorrow I'd buy the 1847. I am not noticing superior performance or playability from the T-bird.
BronzeWailer's YouTube
Last Edited by BronzeWailer on Aug 24, 2013 2:31 AM
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Pistolcat
499 posts
Aug 24, 2013
6:28 AM
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I have a LF lee Oskar that is as crappy as other lee oskars. I also have a LD t-bird that is a joy to play. Even OB:s nicely. Check out my latest YT if your interested in the OB qualities.
That said, the real joy is playing large chords in the lower register... Sweet sound!
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Pistolkatt - Pistolkatts youtube
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Rubes
743 posts
Aug 24, 2013
3:34 PM
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Another vote for the lo-D TB, ( I have 1), but...........I have an 1847 in A that could be my favourite harp.....have frankensteined it up a bit and I wouldn't hesitate on getting another!
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jbone
1337 posts
Aug 24, 2013
6:45 PM
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I have a low F Manji and it's a good harp, plays all up and down nicely. I use it a lot for 3rd position stuff. I recently got a Big River in low D which is also- so far- a well made harp imo. I used to play Big Rivers a lot but moved on to Manji when they came out.
I'd love to be able to afford a Thunderbird but it's somewhere up the line for me.
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nacoran
7055 posts
Aug 24, 2013
8:07 PM
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It's not a cheap option, but Seydel offers fully customized tunings, so if you are only planning on playing the top end of the harp, maybe a different tuning would give you a more useful bottom end?
I don't know just how far they can push it, but one configured harp with 5 holes laid out like two different low tuned harps each (maybe in complementary keys) might be an option (maybe, like I said, I'm not sure just how extreme they can mix and match tunings). One harp that filled the spot of two harps might cost less than two harps. You might also try solo tuning or some other tuning on a higher harp to lay out the bottom holes more like the top holes on a lower harp.
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Nate
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mlefree
127 posts
Aug 26, 2013
10:25 AM
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The Seydel Solist Pro 12-hole in low keys are definitely worth looking at.
They use the Steve Baker SBS tuning so you get an extra octave below the normal key. You basically have the lower 8 holes of a normal diatonic with the addition of the first 4 holes of another diatonic, one octave lower in pitch. As y'all know, lots of blues reside on the lower 4 holes of a diatonic, so you have that built-in. Then right next to that you also have another diatonic an octave higher.
There are a couple of key benefits. It is very cool to be able to play a riff in one octave and then follow in another, call and response style. You can also easily play blues riffs or melodies with tongue-split octaves.
I might mention that the Solist models come with factory sealed wood combs that are nicely rounded and easy on the lips and tongue. Their cover plates are chromed and slide nicely in the mouth. They use brass reeds but I've never had a problem of any kind with mine. They also feature an attractive price-point compared to some of the other models mentioned.
Nothing but a satisfied customer here.
Michelle
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email: mlefree@silverwingleather.com
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snakes
711 posts
Aug 26, 2013
12:37 PM
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Thanks so much for the awesome responses! I've placed my order with Rockin Ron and will try a T-Bird first. Depending upon the performance I get from this harp I'll either try a different brand or stick with the T-bird.
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snakes in Snohomish
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Rubes
744 posts
Aug 26, 2013
2:36 PM
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Hmmmmmmmmmmm..........@ Michelle..............think I'm going for the Soloist 12 hole in Eb next......!
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jim
1466 posts
Aug 27, 2013
4:40 AM
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I've got a spare 1847 Low D if anyone needs that key.
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nacoran
7063 posts
Aug 27, 2013
8:02 AM
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Hmm, low D... I've got a low D harmonic minor... unfortunately right now I've got no more room in my harmonica cases! Still...
No, I'm sure someone else needs it more... still...
Must resist...
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Nate
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pharpo
718 posts
Aug 27, 2013
8:48 AM
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The capcha deleted my message........ Snakes I have a Low D ( MB -Deak custom) and a sp20 low f. I use them both and really like them. Let me know how you like the T-Birds. Any chance you can make it to HCH next year ?
Paul
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Procrastinator Emeritus
Last Edited by pharpo on Aug 27, 2013 8:50 AM
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snakes
712 posts
Aug 27, 2013
9:23 AM
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Hey pharpo! Long time no see. I sure hope to get to HCH next year. My wife wants to go to Mississippi so hopefully we can find a way to get her there and still manage our two dogs (she hates leaving them and so do I).
My TBird came in the mail yesterday. Typical Rockin Ron... Place an order and get the harp in two to four days. That guy is just awesome! I got home late and just had a couple minutes with the harp last night, but here are my first impressions. I love the zipper case. LOL - I forgot to say here are my impressions in no particular order. The harp seems to be very responsive out of the box. Of course it has some of that old MB tone. It is obviously thicker in profile than a normal MB and I believe this is part of the design to allow the reeds freedom to vibrate without buzzing on the cover plates. Oddly when I tongue block I seem like I have to be more deft with my tongue placement to avoid chords and especially tb octaves. This could be just a result of my very brief encounter with the harp. Again - home late and needed to get to bed. Finally, I must say it is not the easiest harp to bend. I had a significant amount of trouble getting the two and three hole draw bends. This could be a product of the thick profile of the harp, the nature of a low key, or the fact it needs broken in before it will be good to go for bending. I will update after I play it more and get it closer to being broke in. Oh yeah, I got a Low C. So in conclusion I am not sure if I'll try a different model next or not, but I am definitely glad I am taking a test drive with the Tbird before purchasing the other three keys.
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snakes in Snohomish
Last Edited by snakes on Aug 27, 2013 9:24 AM
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barbequebob
2324 posts
Aug 27, 2013
9:31 AM
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From trying just about every low pitched model that's been made since the mid 80's, as far as I'm concerned, the cream of the crop for low pitched harps OOTB right at this moment are the MB Thunderbird and the Seydel 1847, hand down.
In terms of playability alone, they're far better than any of the others I've tried (unless they were from a good customizer) and both have one thing in common that unless you spend the money on a custom that no other models have done is that the bottom cover plate have some sort of reshaping because the big problem with low pitched harps is that when you play 1 draw even the SLIGHTEST bit too hard, because of the wider swing of the reed, that reed will be rattling against the cover plate and outside of those two models, only a custom harp has this done to prevent this from happening.
The reed material alone for the T-Bird is worth the price they're asking.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
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hooktool
71 posts
Aug 27, 2013
12:59 PM
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Jim, how much for the 1847 low D?
John
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A440
96 posts
Aug 28, 2013
10:19 AM
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I've never played a T-bird. I have a 3 Big Rivers in low keys - the Low F works as well as any other Big River. The Low E and Low Eb are a bit leaky and occasionally have slight reed rattle on the 1 thru 3 draws. I enjoy playing all three, and they were a good low cost way to try out low harps. I don't think Hohner makes them any more.
Also have a Seydel Session Steel in Low D - it sounds and plays really nice. Highly recommended. I will get a Low C next - either the Session Steel, or maybe spring for the T-bird. The T-bird seems great, but is hard to rationalize the price.
Last Edited by A440 on Aug 28, 2013 10:26 AM
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Frank
2669 posts
Aug 28, 2013
10:31 AM
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This is a low special 20 :)
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barbequebob
2326 posts
Aug 28, 2013
11:02 AM
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@A440 --- I've played the Big Rivers with both the stock reed plates, as well as with the replacement Cross Harp reed plates, which were a definite improvement from the stock plates, as well as the OOTB MB that were introduced in 1985 and the rattling against the covers were a huge problem, especially when played hard.
Even tho the Seydel 1847 and the MB Crossover is more expensive, there is a HUGE overall difference just in the playability alone, plus unlike all other models, those two have specially designed bottom cover plates to allow for the wider swing of those reeds, especially the single biggest offender, hole #1 draw, so there's no rattling on the covers and they need FAR less air to play them. The only way any of those others can come close to this is spending the money on a custom from a top line customizer like the Filisko guild or Joe Spiers.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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snakes
714 posts
Aug 28, 2013
11:18 AM
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Thanks much for your input Bob! Do you have a preference between the Tbird and the Seydel 1847?
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snakes in Snohomish
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HarpNinja
3426 posts
Aug 28, 2013
12:31 PM
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TBirds are the best OOTB, but the most expensive. The Low 1847's sound a big mellower OOTB, but they play very well and are at a much better price point.
Both of those fit the bill of a wood comb, and they have open and vented covers!
The brass Seydels aren't nearly as nice. I have a custom LD from Dave Payne that is a Session with 1847 covers that is NICE. I also have LF#, LE and LEb Sp20's.
The LE is still available through Hohner. The Eb is an OLD one - brass screws and everything. The F# is two years old and double plated.
Otherwise, I have TBirds and 1847's in just about any key.
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Last Edited by HarpNinja on Aug 28, 2013 12:32 PM
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snakes
715 posts
Aug 28, 2013
1:15 PM
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Thanks Mike!
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snakes in Snohomish
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