harponica
109 posts
Jul 31, 2013
3:44 PM
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Ithink this was discussed before,but recently saw for sale musket balls and broken reed plate in display case.Don't remember the conclusion of this being possible or not?
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fred_gomez
140 posts
Jul 31, 2013
4:56 PM
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in 1864 charlie chaplians nazi party supplied german marine band harmonicas to the usa to help spread germanism and oom pah pah musik. the union and redneckistan forces then handed them out to troops on both sides of fence to be used effectively as bullet proof vests. if i were you id bid high on this rare item like say a million billion, yeah thats about right for a harmonica with a musket ball in it, yep about a million billion.
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nacoran
6990 posts
Jul 31, 2013
7:16 PM
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Seydel was in business in 1847. Hohner was what, 10 years later? I remember a post about harps in the 1800's, but I don't remember for sure what it said about the Civil War. It was almost surely one of David Payne's posts, in fact, I think he had an article he wrote about it, but I can't find the link.
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Nate
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STME58
513 posts
Jul 31, 2013
9:22 PM
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In the brochure that comes with Hohner Harmonicas there is a picture of a harp with a bullet hole in it with the caption "The soldier survived". It also mentions the story that Jesse James' brother took a bullet to a harp in his pocket and survived.
I have read that the number of musket balls flying during some battles in the civil war was enough to cut down trees. With thousands of soldiers in the field and the harp being a popular instrument at the time, it seems quite likely that a few harps (or most anything else a soldier might carry in his pocket) would be hit. If the ball had traveled far enough or bounced off something first, it is likely that some of these would not have enough energy left to penetrate and kill the soldier. It is entirely possible that someone has a harp with musket ball damage from the civil war. As to having the very ball that hit the harp, possible, but less likely.
I remember reading a post from Adam on this site about churches being in competition with juke joints at one point in the history of this country. I wonder if for every tale (true or otherwise) of a pocket bible stopping a musket ball there is another story of a harp stopping a ball, thereby allowing each side to claim providence was on their side!
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WinslowYerxa
383 posts
Jul 31, 2013
9:29 PM
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There is no mention of the harmonica in any of the extant writings about the Civil War at the time. And harmonicas were still being made by hand in small numbers in Germany. Production could not keep up with demand in German speaking countries and there weren't enough to export. I once calculated that if Hohner's entire production of that time were shipped to the US, there would be enough harmonicas for 1 in every 200 soldiers.
Most of the stuff dug up from Civil War battle sites is done by amateurs with metal detectors who are not archaeologists. It's desirable to think that whatever you find is from that period, but frankly I think most of it is not verifiable and is probably not from the period.
At the time of the first world war, harmonicas were pouring into the US by the multiple millions and were commonly played by soldiers. Twenty or thirty years later, Hollywood screenwriters remembered this and put it in the civil war scripts, as they knew it would have resonance for their viewers, whether or not it historically accurate.
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Winslow
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Gnarly
653 posts
Aug 01, 2013
12:37 AM
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Here's a reprint of the 2008 Dave Payne quote:
http://www.mytreasurespot.com/main/read.php?3,473599,473602
Last Edited by Gnarly on Aug 01, 2013 12:46 AM
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Goldbrick
246 posts
Aug 01, 2013
11:09 AM
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So my Stonewall Jackson autographed Marine Band Deluxe is a fake???
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STME58
518 posts
Aug 01, 2013
12:40 PM
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After reading Winslow's post, and having my perception of the popularity of the harmonica during the civil war corrected, I think it likely that more musket balls were stopped by pocket bibles than by harmonicas! The tide may have shifted by WWI though.
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Lmbrjak
155 posts
Aug 01, 2013
2:00 PM
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I've read two historical accounts that mentioned harmonicas in the U.S. in the 1850's. One was an autobiography of a soldier who served 10 yrs.,from 1854 to 1864. He mentioned someone playing in the barracks when he served out west before the civil war. Another account was in Michigan in the mid 1850's where someone pulled one out of their pocket and played on a river trip. It was called "mouth organ" in both of these accounts.
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WinslowYerxa
384 posts
Aug 01, 2013
2:38 PM
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Lmbrjak, do you have information that could be used to follow up on these accounts? Early information about harmonicas in North American is pretty sketchy, so these are cool finds.
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Winslow
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Lmbrjak
156 posts
Aug 01, 2013
2:46 PM
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Yes...here's 1 link I just found.http://books.google.com/books?id=LD8rAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA386&lpg=PA386&dq=Gettysburg+mouth+organ&source=bl&ots=keng0x5GN2&sig=Wjs03iRwz-uzxcfbAfMk2X-Ju3k&hl=en&sa=X&ei=uNT6UfnqAuifyQGRhoG4Cg&ved=0CDMQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=Gettysburg%20mouth%20organ&f=false
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Lmbrjak
157 posts
Aug 01, 2013
4:22 PM
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@Winslow Guess I don't know how to post a link but just found a link with a soldiers name in the 24th Michigan infantry who was noted for playing the mouth organ along with the names of the men he served with. I love history and have a lot of civil war bookmarks so I just might make a project out of this.
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harponica
110 posts
Aug 01, 2013
7:30 PM
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This was a display case with items supposedly from C W era camps,battle field,etc.The reed plate was by itself,only about half or less.I wanted to tell the pawn shop guy cival war soldiers didn't have access to harmonicas,but now i'm not sure.
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WinslowYerxa
385 posts
Aug 01, 2013
9:10 PM
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It's not like access to harmonicas was totally impossible. I just don't think it was very common. And I'm happy to see good quality evidence surface - too much of the early history of the harmonica is blank or filled with unverified lore.
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Winslow
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Lmbrjak
162 posts
Aug 04, 2013
7:08 PM
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We know the harmonica was first produced around 1830 and there were many small producers almost immediately. Not just Germany,but even New York and London had harmonica makers in the 1830's,so harmonicas were around 30 yrs. before the civil war. Seydal started making them in 1847,14 yrs. before the civil war. Hohner in 1857,4yrs. before the civil, so by the end of the war(1865) Seydal had been making them 18yrs. and Hohner 8yrs. Hohner began exporting directly to the U.S. in 1862 and according to one account his production was at 22,500 by 1867. He devoted most of his effort to the U.S market during his first 10 yrs. Also,around 1.5 million German people came to the U.S. from 1840 to 1860 and 200,000 German-born troops fought for the union army and several thousand more for the confederates. So far I have found 3 civil war soldiers who mentioned harmonica in their writings,one was in a company commanders list of his troops who were wounded at Gettysburg. In all the writings, the harp was mentioned in a casual way that indicated it was a well-known instrument.
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nacoran
7009 posts
Aug 04, 2013
8:41 PM
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I wonder if maybe someone could research it from the other end- we look at harmonicas from the player/listener point of view, but Lmbrjak's post makes me wonder if maybe harmonicas might turn up in trade literature for jewelers and machinists as a product idea.
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Nate
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