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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Need Advice on Talks with a Booking Agent
Need Advice on Talks with a Booking Agent
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harpdude61
1768 posts
Jul 25, 2013
11:01 AM
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I need a little help from any of you that have dealt with a booking agent for your band. I am as green as they come in this type matters.
I'm meeting with an agent in the morning. This happened thru a neutral party that recommended my band to the agent. From what he said, the agent is interested in using us at the regional level to do venues, festivals, events, as an opener ...whatever.
He knows that it would have to be within 5 or 6 hours of home with an overnight stay possible, only on weekends. We are within that distance of several larger cities.
I'm afraid they will smell a virgin right away. My friend said he thinks the agent cut might be 12% if we do our own promo or 18% if we do not. Personally, I don't have time or the resources to promote away from home. Sound about right?
Questions I should ask? Travel allowence? Rooms? # of rooms? Food? Total pay? Possibilities that I don't even know exist? What to watch out for? Anything?
I don't know where to go on such short notice except here. I would appreciate any help from you guys that have been there, done that.
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lumpy wafflesquirt
730 posts
Jul 25, 2013
11:03 AM
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Make sure that they don't 'charge' you for all gigs even if you get them yourself without them.
There's probably a proper term for that.
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"Come on Brackett let's get changed"
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The Iceman
1046 posts
Jul 25, 2013
11:08 AM
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15% agent commission is a standard and good place to start.
Tell him you will need rooms (2 men/room) and food allowance in addition to fee for performing.
The bigger the fee he arranges, the bigger cut he gets. Try to think of it as how can you get him more money, as that is the motivation.
Don't fall for the "It doesn't pay anything, but think of the great exposure you will get" rap.
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The Iceman
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Kingley
2933 posts
Jul 25, 2013
11:14 AM
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18% sounds pretty steep to me. I'd expect them to do all the booking, promo work and sort out accommodation when necessary. I would also not pay them a percentage for any gigs they didn't find. I would ask them every question you can think of and don't sign anything until you get it checked out by someone who understands all the legal jargon of the contract.
" Personally, I don't have time or the resources to promote away from home."
Well to be perfectly blunt, if you have the time to be on here, then you've got the time to make phone calls, send emails, post out flyers etc. You don't need to visit most places beforehand and even if you do then you sort out a little trip and visit a few on the same day.
Last Edited by Kingley on Jul 25, 2013 11:16 AM
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barbequebob
2308 posts
Jul 25, 2013
11:55 AM
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If you'e gonna be dealing with booking agents, the ONLY that an agent can claim a commission from a gig that you booked on your own is if you've signed a contract with the agent that gives the agent the sole EXCLUSIVE RIGHTS to book you, which means NOBODY can book you, INCLUDING YOURSELF and if you sign such an agreement, they own all the exclusive rights for booking you and they ar legally entitled to get a commission evenif you booked the gig yourself.
I generally do not recommend signing with an agent exclusively unless your act is going to be regional (such as playing the entire east coast as an example) or you're going national and I've worked with several agents over the years and have told them straight up front that until I see they have me booked 10-15 per month over a 6 month minimum period, only then will I begin to TALK about it.
The average booking commission is generally 10-15%, generally no more than 18% for club gigs, but if you're doing GB gigs, like wedding, etc., it's not uncommon for agents who specialize in that area to charge 20% (but in return, GB gigs often pay much more money than the vast majority of club gigs).
All the above questions are legit, and even if you do sign an exclusive, always make damned sure that you get the the phone number and the person to contact at the gig and a month before the gig, then 2 weeks before the gig and then the day before the gig, rule of thumb is to call the club to reconfirm EVERYTHING!!!! Why?? Trust me, things can change in a heartbeat, from things such as club booking manager, policy, etc., etc.
There are some agents that will book you in venues you have no business being booked in, such as a venue that books rock but you do blues, and too often that's gonna go over like a lead balloon and all sorts of bad stuff happens and they can ruin your reputation in a hurry, so you gotta do your homework.
With an agent, you want to make sure you ALWAYS HAVE EVERYTHING IN WRITING and make sure you read EVERY bit of the contract THOROUGHLY and remember, there is NO SUCH THING as a detail too boring and too unimportant to attend to because things you overlook will come back to haunt you.
What it comes down to is that you need to take some courses on Music Business 101 because it's easy to get burned.
Booking is always time consuming, cost tons on the phone bill, and there are some artists who did all their own booking as a national act, such as Mark Hummel and the late Gary Primich, but they had agents doing booking for them for European and Asian tours, and they did work with agents in the States, but didn't sign exclusives so there's no way any agent can legally claim a commission if they booked the gig themselves.
It also means you need to be a very organized SOB and you can't overlook anything.
Contracts all have artist riders, but at this stage of the game, don't go nuts with that until you become a much bigger act in terms of drawing power and the original reason for riders was to make sure the contract was fully read by both the artist and the venue owner/manager and if you become big enough like a Muddy Waters, for example, then you've the power to dictate certain things and I've seen contracts where the rider page alone was 2-1/2 pages long.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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HarpNinja
3395 posts
Jul 25, 2013
12:31 PM
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Get everything in writing.
DO NOT sign an exclusive deal - retain the right to book the band on your own.
Be very clear about return visits to clubs and how those are handled. Meaning, what is the statute for when you can contact the club on your own behalf.
A good example of this is if the booker hasn't rebooked you yet, but the club has contacted you to do more work there. That happened to me once. The statue was a year. Agent hadn't booked us back there even though he was asked to. The club called me to replace another band last minute, but I had to pay the commission...which was fine as that was the agreement even if it seemed dumb.
I'd also see if you can be paid directly from the venue and then send the commission to the booker. Otherwise, for all you know, he could be taking 20-30%!
Finally, if you have a minimum price, inflate it. If you tell them $600, you'll get a bunch of offers for $500. Tell them $800 and settle for $600 instead. That may seem dumb on the booker's end, BUT a lot of the work he'll line up is automatic stuff where he has lots of slots to fill and the commission involves next to no work.
Around here, there were clubs booked exclusively by an agent. We'd only get gigs at a certain pricepoint because we got what was leftover of the club's budget for the month - so say they have four Saturday's a month and $3,000 to spend. They'd book the top acts at $800-$1,000 and then fill in another night or two with random $500 bands from the roster.
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Mantra Customized Harmonicas
My Website
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timeistight
1307 posts
Jul 25, 2013
12:40 PM
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barbequebob, what are "GB gigs"?
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MP
2859 posts
Jul 25, 2013
2:16 PM
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From Iceman,
"15% agent commission is a standard and good place to start.
Tell him you will need rooms (2 men/room) and food allowance in addition to fee for performing.
The bigger the fee he arranges, the bigger cut he gets. Try to think of it as how can you get him more money, as that is the motivation.
Don't fall for the "It doesn't pay anything, but think of the great exposure you will get" rap."
sounds about right. I have used a couple of agencies in the past. They did all the work save playing the gig for a 15% cut.
depending on how much the total of the cut for the band is, i would possibly be amenable to an 18% fee. I'd rather pay out extra than book gigs and do promo. i did my own booking and promo for years and hate it.
But then again there is Facebook and it is a great promo tool. Unfortunately it doesn't secure the gigs,deal w/ hotel accomodations, issue 1099s to cover your taxes, and all that other happy stuff involved in booking your own band.
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MP
affordable reed replacement and repairs.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
click user name [MP] for info-
repair videos on YouTube.
you can reach me via Facebook. Mark Prados
Last Edited by MP on Jul 25, 2013 2:24 PM
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JInx
470 posts
Jul 25, 2013
3:19 PM
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Cool thread, I only play for drunks and squirls so this is fascinating for me. Thanks Adam!
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Sun, sun, sun
Burn, burn, bun
Soon, soon, soon
Moon, moon, moon
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Philosofy
475 posts
Jul 25, 2013
3:36 PM
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I've never dealt with an agent, but I am a sales person, and I highly recommend everyone read "Influence: Science and Practice" by Robert Cialdini. I thought it would help me in selling, but it helped more in recognizing strongarm tactics and defending against them.
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harpdude61
1769 posts
Jul 26, 2013
8:25 AM
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Really good stuff! Especially BBQ and Ninja. Sure helped.
After talking to her it sounded like she did this out of her home as a second income. Sounds like her main promo is FB, Reverbnation, and sending a flyer to the venue to print and post (good luck with that one). I can do all of this.
I guess her advantage is a reputation for bringing in quality performers to a few regular venues. Booking locally was easy for me because my wife and I went to hear live music for years and knew the owners. Plus I was a frequent guest for other bands before I started my own. Not sure how I would do branching out?
I offered to do a few by the gig and see where we go with it. Plus she agreed to me mailing her share. I guess wait and see now what the pay is she can get us and go from there.
Thanks again guys! Big help!
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barbequebob
2310 posts
Jul 26, 2013
9:38 AM
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@Timesight -- GB gigs means General Business gigs, which includes corporate functions, weddings, and barmitzfahs and whenever you do these gigs, YOU DON'T EVER PLOUD LOUD AT ALL because the band is NEVER the central focus and in weddings or barmizfahs, it's the couple getting married, or with corporate functions, the product or corporate meetings and NEVER the band's egos.
What Harp Ninja and MP are telling you are important things to know.
The thing about the 1099-MISC forms is very important to know and whenever a bandleader pays any member $600 or more per year or a club pays any band $600 or more a year, by federal law they are obligated to issue that to you and you are obligated to issue them to your band members and whenever you get these, you are 100% fully responsible for ALL income taxes and venues and bandleaders are not responsible for withholding them at all and as a musician, you are considered self employed meaning you ARE a business. You will also need at some point to be in touch and often times use the services of a tax accountant that specializes in the entertainment industry and NEVER use those from places like Jackson Hewett or H&R Block because 99% of them won't be properly trained in both accounting procedures as well as the tax laws involved in the business and looking at them to go the cheap route often will cost you dearly both with the IRS and then some.
Music is both an art form as well as business, make no mistake about that. I urge you to take music business courses ASAP, and there's more than a few on the internet now and even some sites where you csan download sample templates of all sorts of contracts relating to the music industry that you NEED to get your hands on.
One thing to remember, even with an agent, make sure you have the contact person and phone number of both the venue you're playing as well as where the reservations are for the lodging (if needed), and just like if you were doing the booking on your own, call both of them to reconfirm at least 2 months before, then 1 month before, then 2 weeks before, 1 week before and the day before because things have a way of getting screwed up easily.
You will be married to the phone, but as long as you're gonna be a bandleader, it's comes with the turf, like it or not.
Here's a link to these things below:
http://musicoffice.com/Library/
They do state that these are dated, but used as an example and you may want to devise templates for your own use, but at least you get an idea what these things should be like.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Last Edited by barbequebob on Jul 26, 2013 9:43 AM
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harpdude61
1770 posts
Jul 26, 2013
12:29 PM
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I really appreciate you Bob!
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Shredder
384 posts
Jul 26, 2013
12:31 PM
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Duane, have a copy of the contract with you when you get to the gig. I've had to show it to the manager to get our comp meals and drinks before and to show how much we get paid. With our contracts some one higher up in the food chain signed the contract and the store manager never sees it. Also have the agents phone number on speed dial. We showed up at a gig once and the manager said "No Bands here only at the Beaumont location" I called the agent and let him speak to her. All the sudden it was yes sir, you can set up over here. Our agent gets 10% for $300 gigs and 15% for $500 and up gigs. Read the contract terms. break times, food & drink comps. load in times , break music. Some places will cut us $30 if we do not provide break music " I pod or Mp3 player"
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MP
2860 posts
Jul 26, 2013
1:58 PM
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Tax Stuff you can use if you go down that road.
It is not only the Feds 1099.
You will need an independent contractors general excise tax license for your state taxes.
This can be paid quarterly, bi-annually, or yearly. i'd go with quarterly because you don't get behind quite so fast.
As far as the feds 1099s. I had the IRS scare me a bit but i paid 'em back literally thousands of dollars. My band was sponsored by the biggest beer company in the entire world. They paid us well. Very well. At the time, Anheuser Busch sold half the beer in the world.
working out of your house you can claim deductions.
a certain amount for office space, a certain amount for storage (your gear buddy. :-) gas and upkeep on your gig mobile, etc. I had an accountant who was a drummer and he HATED the IRS. He made it a point to help other musicians ever since the IRS threatened to put a lien on his home and bank account.
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MP
affordable reed replacement and repairs.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
click user name [MP] for info-
repair videos on YouTube.
you can reach me via Facebook. Mark Prados
Last Edited by MP on Jul 26, 2013 2:01 PM
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