Reed Triller
121 posts
Jul 04, 2013
7:11 AM
|
I remember back when I first started tinkering with playing guitar. I started with an electric. Being that I had no choice but to play amped I was forced to hear every one of the slightest mistakes in technique. Therefor over time I think it made my playing better.
Would you suggest that a newbie harp player do this if possible even if just through a cheap crappy amp?
----------
"Bend it like Ricci" - Me
|
The Iceman
984 posts
Jul 04, 2013
7:16 AM
|
Nope.
Too many disparate techniques to deal with at the same time, as playing amplified is its own entity aside from learning the harmonica.
Kinda like deciding to learn to ride a bike while juggling oranges together rather than first learning juggling, riding and then putting them together.
----------
The Iceman
|
rbeetsme
1291 posts
Jul 04, 2013
7:34 AM
|
It is important to develop your tone acoustically, amping only makes it louder. But I agree, when you do play amped, you'll hear your flaws pretty clearly. BTW: On the same subjuct. BBQ Bob keeps preaching the gospel of playing softly and concentrating on your breathing. I totally agree, however, I keep running into guys that get a break at an acoustic jam and I can't hear a single note they are playing. You can play softly but still work on projecting some volume!
|
Reed Triller
122 posts
Jul 04, 2013
7:44 AM
|
I am very familiar with his preachings going back to my first days with the harp around '08-'09. Luckily I was one that understood it is just little reeds in there and those eventually wear out and there was no need to blow them like a hurricane and speed the wearing out process up,lol. I started out finding just how little of a breath was needed and went until it had good volume and stopped there.
----------
"Bend it like Ricci" - Me
|
5F6H
1647 posts
Jul 04, 2013
7:47 AM
|
If you mostly listen to amplified harp & you want to mostly play amplified, then do it.
Cheap amps are fine, crappy amps can only be crappy because they sound crappy & are best avoided.
Don't bury your sound in distortion, or rely on drive from the amp to make the sound, look at it as a medium for conveying your sound & reflecting your relatively clean sound back at you. The biggest problem will likely be finding an amp to practice with that doesn't annoy the hell out of everyone around you...the little Danelectro Honeytone etc aren't bad (if you don't have to worry about noise levels, knock yourself out).
People predominantly play through amps for the tone, not the volume...even if you have a loud amp it will be miced through a PA for big venues & outdoors. The PA can usually go louder than the typical harp amp.
----------
www.myspace.com/markburness
http://www.facebook.com/markburness
|
Reed Triller
123 posts
Jul 04, 2013
8:04 AM
|
I wasnt really speaking of me doing it. I was just wondering if others might think it may be a good idea for newbies. As for the amp I only said even if its a crappy amp because even a crappy amp can expose a lot of your playing flaws.
----------
"Bend it like Ricci" - Me
|
Goldbrick
221 posts
Jul 04, 2013
8:16 AM
|
I have been playing harp for about 2 years seriously and I started amped because thats the sound I wanted. I also play guitar and started on electric for the same reason.
I think it helped- 1 it kept me interested
2- I could blow softly and get a full tone( didnt realize when I started that the harp I began with was junk and had no volume)
3-justified all the band amps and mics I already had sitting around
|
Greg Heumann
2235 posts
Jul 04, 2013
8:17 AM
|
I don't think it is a good idea. Newbies have plenty to think about - all this will do is cloud their hearing. Newbies go to great lengths to get their amplification system to sound like they think it should - not realizing how important technique is in the equation- so they add all kinds of distortion and EQ via pedals. All this will do is make it HARDER for them to hear their mistakes and develop good natural tone.
I do NOT agree that "amping it just makes it louder." A good harp amp is a musical instrument that can be played and results in a completely different sound, whether louder or not.
----------
***************************************************
/Greg
BlowsMeAway Productions
See my Customer Mics album on Facebook
BlueState - my band
Bluestate on iTunes
|
rbeetsme
1292 posts
Jul 04, 2013
8:33 AM
|
You are correct Greg, every amp does have it's own tone. A bad amp only makes it louder! I bet you've heard some way too loud bands where the harp player was playing way too loud on a high wattage amp that had no character, was just loud. Often, the player wasn't very good either.
Last Edited by rbeetsme on Jul 04, 2013 8:33 AM
|
Kingley
2842 posts
Jul 04, 2013
9:09 AM
|
I agree with Larry, Rick and Greg.
|
Greg Heumann
2242 posts
Jul 04, 2013
11:07 AM
|
rbeets - I think you're missing my point. An amp does NOT just amplify your acoustic tone. Yes, you have to have good acoustic tone. But I think of the amp/mic/harp as a completely different musical instrument. You PLAY the amp, not just the harp.
----------
***************************************************
/Greg
BlowsMeAway Productions
See my Customer Mics album on Facebook
BlueState - my band
Bluestate on iTunes
|
MP
2807 posts
Jul 04, 2013
11:36 AM
|
From Triller-
"I remember back when I first started tinkering with playing guitar. I started with an electric. Being that I had no choice but to play amped I was forced to hear every one of the slightest mistakes in technique. Therefor over time I think it made my playing better."
i worked in a guitar shop for years. going amped up right off the bat is not a bad idea if that's what you are after on guitar. it is false that learning acoustic guitar first is better if you are not going for an acoustic guitar goal. it'll strengthen your chording and speed though.
not so with harp. i tried amped up right off the bat and it didn't help. it hindered. acoustic Sonny Boy licks from record albums got me learning by leaps and bounds
----------
MP
affordable reed replacement and repairs.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
click user name [MP] for info-
repair videos on YouTube.
you can reach me via Facebook. Mark Prados
Last Edited by MP on Jul 04, 2013 11:37 AM
|
MP
2808 posts
Jul 04, 2013
11:36 AM
|
From Triller-"
I remember back when I first started tinkering with playing guitar. I started with an electric. Being that I had no choice but to play amped I was forced to hear every one of the slightest mistakes in technique. Therefor over time I think it made my playing better."
i worked in a guitar shop for years. going amped up right off the bat is not a bad idea if that's what you are after on guitar. it is false that learning acoustic guitar first is better if you are not going for an acoustic guitar goal. it'll strengthen your chording and speed though.
not so with harp. i tried amped up right off the bat and it didn't help. it hindered. acoustic Sonny Boy licks from record albums got me learning by leaps and bounds
----------
MP
affordable reed replacement and repairs.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
click user name [MP] for info-
repair videos on YouTube.
you can reach me via Facebook. Mark Prados
|
MakaInOz
85 posts
Jul 04, 2013
8:05 PM
|
There’s not many harp players that don’t get a mic in front them at some stage of their playing career (sometimes whether they want to or not!).
Having access to a mic and amp can offer newbs an alternative to ‘just’ acoustic playing that might keep the motivation going.
But there are traps - newbs don’t yet know their playing technique (or perhaps even the style of music they want to play) so should start off with a ‘minimum investment’ for amplified playing. As suggested elsewhere, a Bottle-o-Blues or SM58 mic and a Honeytone amp aren’t a huge investment and will probably be retained all through your playing life.
Another issue is that playing amplified opens a huge world of GAS, and chasing through all the equipment options to get the ‘right’ sound before the newb can play well enough to achieve that sound regardless of the equipment, is a path leading to frustration.
My advice to a newb – buy a recorder (Zoom H1 or similar) before - or at least at the same time as - any mic/amp combo. Get used to playing recordings of you back, and critiquing yourself. Then you will be able to take advantage of the differences that playing amplified brings and improve your mic technique.
Maka
Last Edited by MakaInOz on Jul 04, 2013 8:06 PM
|
bonedog569
889 posts
Jul 04, 2013
8:39 PM
|
I don't think an amp will fit in your pocket. - meaning keep a harp with you and play every chance you get. Find a hallway or tunnel if you want some reverb effect. I'm with Greg on this one.
When you do really want to experiment / practice with an amp, at least get one that's harp friendly. Don't mess with something that's gonna feedback before giving you any kind of sound you can dig playing to.
second thoughts:
most important is to keep yourself psyched and playing. If playing through an amp really gets you off and makes you play & practice more.- , - may be that's what will work for you. We all gotta find our 'way'
----------
|
jbone
1293 posts
Jul 05, 2013
4:31 AM
|
Personally I amped up way too early, before I knew much at all about how to play a harp. Past a couple o0f blue notes and bending the hell out of some reeds I was just not ready to inflict myself on the world.
My first amp truly sucked tone-wise, and a digi delay improved things only a bit. My next amp was much better and by then I had an idea how far I had to go to be a decent player.
One thing that I know keeps me humble is playing acoustic on the street or at a party. one can regain a very healthy perspective when it's just you and your instrument. I had to learn to play within the limits of the reeds on a harp or keep blowing them out fairly quickly. That also applies to working with loud bands, mostly I just won't work at too high a volume since I will not be heard anyway. The trick to me a few years ago became obvious: play at your own level, and if people want to hear they can move in closer. On the street this brings them close to your tip bucket as well anyway, so 2 birds, 1 stone!
So amping up early to me is needless. Recording oneself can be a humbling and informative thing and much more helpful than amping up! Tape don't lie is what we used to say.
----------
http://www.reverbnation.com/jawboneandjolene
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000386839482
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wa7La7yYYeE
|
Rick Davis
2045 posts
Jul 05, 2013
6:38 AM
|
Every harp player who aspires to play amped harp should acquire a good small 5-watt tube amp right away: a Kalamazoo or Champ clone or something similar.
Not a cheap, crappy amp. That will only frustrate the new player. We want to inspire him/her to play more.
----------
-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Tip Jar
Last Edited by Rick Davis on Jul 05, 2013 6:44 AM
|
DukeBerryman
71 posts
Jul 06, 2013
8:47 AM
|
I played for years without a mic and amp. And I learned to emulate the tone of my favorite blues players (who were amped). I can't imagine not developing my tone first, esp work with my hands.
Now, one of the amps I have is a very loud, solid state, unforgiving amp with a Weber alnico speaker and a Retro Rockt mic. It only gets classic tone if you are cupping correctly. If you can sound good coming out of that amp, you can retire. It makes me feel spoiled when I switch to the SM57 and a tube amp.
----------
Duke Berryman - Chicago blues, harmonica, guitar
|
Rick Davis
2056 posts
Jul 06, 2013
9:11 AM
|
Duke, imagine how much better a player would be at amped harp if he'd had a good small practice amp from day one.
----------
-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Tip Jar
Last Edited by Rick Davis on Jul 06, 2013 9:13 AM
|
Kingley
2853 posts
Jul 06, 2013
9:28 AM
|
Whilst I understand why Rick says what he does about using an amp from day one. I have to disagree with him. The reality is that often when people do play amplified from day one, they neglect to work on acoustic tone and technique, which are essential to a good harp sound whether playing acoustic or amplified. They instead often end up believing that you have to have a certain amp or pedal or mic to sound good. Of course that simply isn't true. We all know this. Big Walter for example sounded great whatever he played through. That is because he worked on his acoustic tone first and foremost. He also worked on amplified techniques to develop a good sound. But that came much later on. By which time he had already built his chops and refined his tone.
In an ideal world of course a player would learn to play amplified from day one. Given the pitfalls though I don't really consider it a good idea for them to do so. I'd always advise a newbie to concentrate on the basics first. It's a bit like bodybuilding if you start on anabolic steroids and cable crossovers from day one, you ain't gonna get good muscle mass. If however you start with squats, bench press and other mass building exercises and eat right, then you at least have a fighting chance of gaining good muscle mass. It's just the same with harp. You need to have a good grounding in those acoustic techniques and tone before leaping into the more advanced stuff.
Last Edited by Kingley on Jul 06, 2013 9:29 AM
|
blueswannabe
223 posts
Jul 06, 2013
9:36 AM
|
Unamplified at first for a while. What is "a while?" As long as it takes to get the bends correct, single notes, octaves, hand holding and hand techniques down, melodies, blue scale and breathing. it's all about time, tone, and phrasing. Breathe from the diaphragm, drop your jaw as much as possible, put the harp in your mouth as much as possible, create a stream of focused and steady air to help with tone. Then introduce an amp, a kalamazoo or champ clone or a "harp approved" amp (just ask...it will save you a lot of grief and money) preferably with a tone control. Buy many blues recordings and listen to them incessantly, over and over again until it gets in your blood (it all about ear taining). Don't play...just listen...recognize the chord changes and keep time with your foot. You will beging to differentiate styles of various players, turnarounds and intros. Above all have patience. Caveat: This might not work for everyone, you might be a natural, you might be a Brandon or Jay of Nic, although I would bet that those guys were and are obsessive about playing, which is another strong attribute to have.
Last Edited by blueswannabe on Jul 06, 2013 9:42 AM
|
Thievin' Heathen
221 posts
Jul 06, 2013
10:24 AM
|
Both - as often as possible. Get a keyboard so that you can get a visual image of the theory.
|
Rick Davis
2057 posts
Jul 06, 2013
10:52 AM
|
Agree with TH... Both, as often as possible. If a new player is inspired by the sound of an amped harp he should go that direction. Whatever inspires new harp players is good.
Playing amped is pretty unforgiving. Bad technique sounds even worse (louder) when amped. But we don't have to listen to it, the player does. He will learn from it.
Many of us believe the amp is part of the instrument. Getting it right is not easy. We don't demand that guitar players all start out on acoustic or all keyboard players all start out on a parlor piano. But for some reason some harp players (who likely stared out playing acoustic) demand that everybody be just like them. I don't get it.
Every harp player who likes to play amped will eventually want a 5-watt tube practice amp. I think it is a good idea to encourage new players to go ahead and get one. The investment is not large and the amp is not loud enough to get him evicted.
If the new player wants to play acoustic all day, fine. If he wants to play amped all day, great. As long as he is playing all day I am happy. And he will be a better player for having worked so hard at the craft of his choosing.
----------
-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Tip Jar
|
DukeBerryman
73 posts
Jul 06, 2013
11:55 AM
|
@Rick I think the trick is to never get rid of the practice amp. I put mine together after getting a better rig. I gotta sound good on the practice amp before I have fun on my tone machine.
----------
Duke Berryman - Chicago blues, harmonica, guitar
|
Rick Davis
2059 posts
Jul 06, 2013
11:59 AM
|
Duke, I agree 100%.
----------
-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Tip Jar
|
