A440
90 posts
Jun 27, 2013
7:31 AM
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Thanks everyone. This has morphed into a pretty interesting engineering discussion.
I think I will try a Hammond in Bb and an Olive in C, as my first step into the Suzuki world. I will pass on the Manji, for now. I have Crossovers in 6 keys, and it seems like the Manji is a similar style of harp.
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Grey Owl
186 posts
Jun 27, 2013
8:16 AM
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Nice one A440, I don't think you will be disappointed, the Hammond is a great OOTB harp. Mine is in the key of A and I'm well impressed. I can't speak for the Olive but I've heard good things about them.
Here is a mini review of the Hammond by Todd Parrott and he likes them a lot. Mind you I think with players such as Todd he could throw away the cover plates and still sound good:)
Here is some lovely playing by Filip Jers on the Olive.
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Last Edited by Grey Owl on Jun 27, 2013 9:01 AM
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florida-trader
325 posts
Jun 27, 2013
8:45 AM
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STME58,
Your comments are an example of the collective wealth of knowledge that is present on this forum. We see it on display every day. When you were working on Mercedes or racing bicycles, who would have thought that that experience would somehow weave its way into a conversation about harmonica combs? I’ll give you another example. I’ve been working on a batch of wood combs for a customer for the past several days. What I realized two years ago when I started making wood combs is that getting a great finish on wood it is less about harmonicas and more about woodworking. So I sought the advice of guys who had 30-40 years of experience working with wood. They had zero experience working with harmonicas but their advice helped me immensely. But I digress.
If you simply Google the definition/description of anodizing you will find language to the effect that the layer of aluminum oxide that is created in the process is harder and less susceptible to scratching than the metal itself. So your comments are certainly consistent with this. I don’t know about “hard” anodizing or thicker coats. I don’t do the anodizing on my combs. I farm that out to people who do it for a living. I also farm out the milling of the combs to a professional machine shop. With the woodworking, CNC laser cutting, CNC milling, anodizing, working with Solid Surface (Corian), adventures in brass (which presents its own unique challenges) not to mention powder coating, reed work, tuning, building a website, blah, blah, blah that I’ve experienced since getting to a “side line” harmonica business, a) I have enough to do to keep me busy, and b) it’s been a hell of an educational experience. Your last paragraph pretty much sums it all up. There have been a few conversations on this site recently about the business side of being in the harmonica business. There is a lot more than meets the eye and it requires a certain amount of patience and determination.
If you would like to contact me off list, I would be happy to do something for you. Business is business, but good will is important too.
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Tom Halchak
www.BlueMoonHarmonicas.com
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Grey Owl
187 posts
Jun 27, 2013
9:23 AM
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@florida-trader. I meant to thank you for your kind offer of help re the Promaster. I only own one Promaster and the galvanic effect for the odd time my toungue rests on the comb is not a big problem. If I TB'd exclusively I think I would have to do something because playing the harp leaves an unpleasant metallic taste. BTW I have no problem at all with the black anodising on the Hammond.
My Promaster, like STME's, is around 2 years old and has no visible signes of wear and I get the effect through holes 1 to 10.
As far as the 3 hole bent draw is concerned on the Promaster. The bend is acheiveable and strong but it feels tight and requires more effort. Widening the gaps just makes the bend too airy. I have now set the gaps to get it as sweet as I can but it is still not ideal. I could try Brendan's embossing suggestion but think this might make bending more stiff. It's a puzzle.
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1847
874 posts
Jun 27, 2013
9:25 AM
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am i missing something here?
one of the top customizers on the planet
say's that they are "rubbish"
why would anyone still consider buying one?
so they can practice there embossing skills
i would rather spend time playing than working
on a hartmonica.
also if you need to put vasaline on the comb
perhaps that type of comb is less than ideal?
i bought a set of manji's thinking i would never
ever never ever ever never by another hohner
sadly that is not the case.
i play stock out of the box harmonicas
number one choice seydel silver plus
also have a set of hohner crossovers
i tried one because it was on sale very cheap
i am surprised how nice it is. so i bought the whole set.....well almost.. i do not need a F#.. have a few of those already.
the manji and the olive are the same harmonica
just different cover plates and a different color comb
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have you seen this?
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groyster1
2283 posts
Jun 27, 2013
9:47 AM
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he was just kidding.....he did go on the say hohners are better OOTB
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florida-trader
326 posts
Jun 27, 2013
10:06 AM
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1847. I do not speak for Brendan but I am quite confident that his "rubbish" comment was tongue-in-cheek. Furthermore, his Vaseline comment was a great tip. If you happen to have a comb that is less than perfectly flat, and if that comb happens to be one that cannot be sanded – such as an anodized aluminum comb or perhaps a recessed comb like a Session Steel – smearing a little Vaseline on it would be a great way to seal those leaks without cementing the harmonica together. I think it is brilliant. I don’t see this as an indictment of all Suzuki combs. Brendan is a world class player who has very high standards with regard to his instruments. He has experimented and figured out ways to squeeze every ounce of potential out of his harps. He just shared a couple of his secrets to help us get the most out of ours.
BTW - I agree with you (and Brendan) that the Crossover is a superb OOTB harp.
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Tom Halchak
www.BlueMoonHarmonicas.com
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STME58
480 posts
Jun 27, 2013
10:52 AM
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Brendon,
Thanks for the tips. I was not sure uf you meant to use the vaseline between the reed pates and comb on assembly to stop leaks, or on the tips of the comb to electrically insulate the bare spots and stop the galvanic action or both. I have already sealed the reed plates to the comb with bees wax and it is still hard to bend. On the plus side, this harp is helping me to improve my bending technique!
I am going to order a new comb from Tom and I will report back after I have installed it. Because the bees wax did not work, I don't expect the new comb to work but that does not stop me from using this as an excuse to buy some cool new hardware. Besides, I won't know for sure unless I try it.
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STME58
487 posts
Jul 04, 2013
9:37 PM
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I ordered two combs from Blue Moon Harmonicas, one for the Suzuki ProMaster discussed here, and one for an SP20. Tom Halchak was true to his word in this discussion to help me out on the Suzuki comb, and I appreciate it. Seeing I already had a package coming I decided to add the order for a comb for one of my SP20s. On recieving the combs I see that they both have a very high level of workmanship. The aluminum comb has no flaws in the anodize coat and thus has eliminated the voltage when tongue blocking I had with the original Suzuki comb. The polish on the Kirinite comb reminds me of a piece of fine furniture.
The difficulty bending on hole 3 of my ProMaster is still there, but I think I have eliminated the possibility that it is a problem with the comb. I suspect this is a reed or reed plate problem. However it is one that Suzuki has built into their process, because this is the third set of reed plates I have put on this harp that do this. Perhaps next time I will use Firebreath reed plates, if they interchange. The more I play this harp the better I am getting at making hole 3 behave in the bends. Other than the bend problem it plays well. It is more enjoyable to play now that I don’t get zapped when my tongue touches the fourth tine.
The Kirinite comb really upgraded my SP20, perhaps because I went from a molded plastic comb with lots of voids to a solid comb. The harp is now noticeably heavier and I like the heft. It also seems to sound better. I was worried about going from a recessed comb to a flat comb but with a bit of care in assembly there was no issue. Now when playing this harp I sometimes forget it is an SP20 and think I have a more expensive Suzuki or Seydel in my hands.
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Brendan Power
363 posts
Jul 04, 2013
10:36 PM
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@ 1847: You are indeed missing something: irony.
If you're American you're in good company, as an irony deficiency is a well-known trait of citizens of that great country.
@STME58: Have you gapped the blow reed as close as possible for your style of play in hole 3? That should help. Aside from that, emboss, emboss, emboss - all harps regardless of brand benefit hugely from it.
Last Edited by Brendan Power on Jul 05, 2013 7:56 AM
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jim
1448 posts
Jul 05, 2013
9:12 AM
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"If you're American you're in good company, as an irony deficiency is a well-known trait of citizens of that great country."
And that must have already been sarcasm :-)
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nacoran
6901 posts
Jul 05, 2013
12:35 PM
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I had my irony removed, but I think the doctor got my funny bone instead. :P
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Goldbrick
224 posts
Jul 05, 2013
3:10 PM
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You've probably stolen our irony with your magnetic personality
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atty1chgo
661 posts
Jul 05, 2013
3:59 PM
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I have many Manji's, and I like them. They sound good and are durable.
The thing that gets me is that some people who are trashing Suzuki Manji's on this string probably own a bunch of Lee Oskar harps, IMHO a total waste of money.
Last Edited by atty1chgo on Jul 05, 2013 3:59 PM
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STME58
490 posts
Jul 05, 2013
11:17 PM
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I really appreciate Brendan taking the time to comment on this. The first thing I did when I noticed this on this harp was set the gaps, and it helped. I checked them when I replaced the comb and they still looked ok, based on my limited experience with this. This is the only harp I have that I can get and overblow or overdraw on every hole (week as some of them may be) so I don't want to screw it up in an attempt to improve it before I have learned as much as possible from it about overblow technique.
The more I practice with it the better the 3 draw bend is getting, even if I have to be more precise with this harp that with others. There will be times when I have to work with a less that optimum harp so skill learned here is a plus. That said, I do need to look into embossing. If I understand it correctly, it is a way to reduce the gap between the reed and plate without causing contact and to shape exactly where along the reed the air path opens as the reed vibrates.
I have access to a high speed camera. If I get a chance I will point it at my harp during a draw bend and see if I can get some images of what is going on. I would like to compare these to modal analysis I have done that shows how a reed would vibrate in a mathematically perfect world with no air resistance.
Here is a short sample of a draw bend exercise suggested by @FMWoodeye that shows where I am at on the 3 draw bend on this harp.
Back to the original topic of this thread, I have not been disappointed with any of the Suzuki harps I have bought. I have about 10 of them from Folkmasters to a Pure Harp. Their service is great, especially since I am in San Diego and I can drop harps off for repair.
Last Edited by STME58 on Jul 06, 2013 12:02 AM
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Thievin' Heathen
222 posts
Jul 06, 2013
11:36 AM
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I hope I haven't hijacked the thread too much, but can I put RP350V valved plates in my RP-350 Promaster?
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Grey Owl
197 posts
Jul 06, 2013
11:44 AM
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I would say yes. I own both harps and they look identical.
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Thievin' Heathen
223 posts
Jul 13, 2013
12:17 PM
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Yes it works - RP350V plates installed in my ProMaster D.
Now I have something new to experiment with.
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