Don't know much about them. I think they've been out of production for some time now though. Kinda got replaced by the Harp Kings altogether. Seems like John Kinder's strictly a pedal guy nowadays. ----------
Hawkeye Kane
Last Edited by HawkeyeKane on May 08, 2013 8:42 AM
Thanks HK. Just talked to Johns tech and she said I could get him to build me one as I am a repeat customer. He is in need of a new cabinet maker. Just wanted a little more info on the consumer end before I jumped. I have a 1953 Gibson GA-30 that is fantastic but hate dragging the antique out to gigs. PS that Kinder AFB + is right on. Man I can drive the amp w/o any feedback. Changes the whole dynamics. I have a HK 6-10 but only use it for large events.
--------So....I have actually owned 2 Soulful's and have 1 as my major performance amp these days. John built my first one years ago and he built it quickly (around 6 weeks!). That is the one in the video that Kingley posted. It was powerful with a real depth to the tone imo But I thought another dedicated harp amp would serve me better (it didn't) and sold it to finance that one...About 2 years ago a guy from Fla. thought I might want his and offered it to me (it was expensive) so I bought it. Superficially there were aesthetic changes: I had a deep green and the new one is blonde. Internally the AFB, ect were still internal but the response was very different and much less to my liking so I contacted John (he advised me that my original Soulful had eventually landed in Britain). John's always been mega-decent to me and offered to alter it to the specs of my original Soulful or send me the instructions to have someone local do it (it was simple). I had Mark Grandfield (a knowledgeable harp-amp fetishist) do the quick alteration. The stacked 2 10's, volume, and tone make it a great performance amp! I suspect (based on my experience and conversations with John) that there's some variation in the tone of each one made...I dare say it is one of if not the most coveted harp-voiced amp out there as a result of it's quality married to it's minority status! I'll follow this post with my present Soulful (I solo briefly at the end in a band with Felicia Collins from David Letterman's band and if you follow it to my youtube page you'll find another one with Felicia that has the Soulful recorded too) in a video! My best. d-- Facebook
Big D Nice work. I wonder how many a were made ? I guess I could talk to John and see if he would build me one ( if he still has the rights to it ). I could call Rod but I know it will be cha ching cha ching. Just wondering if there are any out there for sale. Im gonna wait to get my 4-10 DeVille back from being modded, throw in a couple Lil Buddy's and see what I get. I couldnt hardly use the DeVille due to feedback but know have the AFB +. Still want a Soulful, Im addicted. My HK 6-10 is outrageous but is a little unwieldly for smaller gigs. Thanks for the response.
so dennis, what was the dedicated harp amp you tried that didnt work for you? i agree a 2 speaker harp king has to be the most ideal amp also a kinder box works great on quite a few amps
i am curios as i just played the a small sonny jr i felt it could handle most gigs ---------- tipjar
I believe the dedicated harp amp Dennis speaks of would be the 4-10 HarpKing. It would be hard to dial in at the venue Dennis currently gigs at-I have been there front row,and it is tight,even for the audience!! But it was great to see Dennis play-he truly is one of my favorite players on the scene today!!
Last Edited by tmf714 on May 09, 2013 10:27 AM
i was playing the other day and having issues with my amp. so right behind me is a 4 10 harpking so i flipped the on switch man was that ever loud! so i kept turning the knob on the end down thinking it was the volume knob...wrong! who the hell puts the volume knob in the middle i am sure it is there cause it needs to be with that circuitry, but damn! i got the nod for a solo i thought to myself, what the heck lets see what a cranked up harpking sounds like after all it's not entirely my fault i can blame it on the amp later ---------- tipjar
So here's where that patronizing platitudinous disclaimer comes in again:.... "Of course this is subjective but"...... the amp I replaced my first Soulful with was a "Minimeat" with a 15'' and it didn't match my needs as well. I was reticent to reveal this because the MM is a top product and Scott B. is the best (he gladly offered to help me sell it) to deal with...I just felt a fuller depth from the Soulful....Regarding the 4 10'' HK I sold to Dennis G......I just intellectually and emotionally punked out on that one....If I can't figure my sound out simply on an amp with my musical A.D.D. (I joke in earnest) I feel intimidated - so the combo of not needing that big an amp and not quite finding my spot led me to offer it to D. ---------- Facebook
Hey 1847, just wondering who you are. I read in an earlier post you were at the Bliss in Long Beach. I hang out there a bit. I used to play with Johnny Mastro & Mammas Boys on a regular basis at the Bliss. Have sat in with the Prophets a couple times. Im Rich Parrish.
well tomorrow, rod piazza is playing at the fairgrounds its a food drive i' be there. also we are having a jam at boscoe's in lake forest 2:00 to 6:00 this afternoon, should be a light turnout cause of the holiday. ---------- tipjar
The only amps I've ever seen that had the volume in the middle were some of the brown tolex Fender amps from the early 60's, including some early 4-10 Concerts and 2-10 Super Amps. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Vibro King is a whole different thing, as what it has on the control panel is a reverb unit that is setup where the controls are seperate and work the same way as the old outboard tube reverb units work, so if you a see another volume control, that's for the reverb only. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
The Kinder Soulful is an amp I have not played or examined, and I am curious about it. What is its tube complement? Speakers? Is it fixed bias? I know it has Kinder's proprietary circuits and I am not looking for any trade secrets, just general information. Is there a schematic available?
Rick I could well be wrong, but I seem to recall that the Soulful had KT88 power valves and all the rest were 12AX7. I think it also had a solid state rectifier. The early ones had all the Kinder AFB and Mid Bass Cut preset in the circuit rather than external controls. I'm fairly sure that the speakers were the same ones used in the bigger HarpKing amps. I'm sure Dennis Moriarty or Tom Fiacco will be able to out give more information.
Last Edited by Kingley on May 19, 2013 7:31 AM
1847- 12AX7 tubes are fine in harp amps whose circuits are designed for them. When converting guitar amps for use with harp we often "tube down" but only because the entire system is high gain and we want to reduce that.
Soulful is (or was originally) 2x6L6GC in fixed bias, SS rectified, 2x12AX7. First ones didn't have user adjustable AFB & UB. Mid bass cut? This feature has it's own tube triode in the Harpking, so there doesn't look to be enough tubes to accomodate the circuit in a 2x12AX7 amp? TMF714 says that latest models have user adjustable AFB & UB.
2x Eminence 102 blackframes.
@1847 - If you design in certain features & methods to control feedback & tweak tone, there's no reason not to use 12AX7 tubes, I even know guys who often (but not always) use 3x12AX7 in bassmans, I like to replace the 12AT7 PI in BF amps with 12AX7. It depends on number of stages, gain, mic used, taste etc...if the amp sounds best with something else, then great...but I wouldn't blanket rule out 12AX7s in the right amp. There's no right/wrong or single consensus.
john kinder is a genius, and a heck of a nice guy to boot.
there is no longer a need to "tube down" a circuit is available... the antifeedbacker + this device is a game changer. AS 5F6H so eloquently experssed... If you design in certain features & methods to control feedback & tweak tone, there's no reason not to use 12AX7 tubes.
not only can you use higher gain tubes you can also effectively add gain. you can now use pedals that were not really possible before. for example a rat overdrive or a butler tube overdrive...or perhaps the lone wolf pedals can be used to great effect, with out the feedback, very cool indeed ---------- tipjar
1847: I've used a Kinder AFB+ pedal for a few years and I like it very much, but is is just not a magic bullet that destroys all feedback and turns any amp into a harp monster. The pedal will get you a bit of extra headroom before feedback. Your amp can still howl with feedback when using the AFB pedal. If you use too much of the effect it can ruin your tone. Some players dislike the slight distortion it adds to the signal.
As I said, I love the pedal and use it all the time with my Bassman, but rarely with my Mission 32-20 and Mission Delta Sonic.
I would disagree that there is no longer a reason to "tube down." Using lower gain tubes does more than just reduce the potential for feedback, and my experience is the AFB pedal sounds best with amps that are already set up for harp.
Rick Davis - You've got me curious. Other than taming feedback,is there a sonic advantage to "tubing down"? Once I got an AFB+, I was able to change back to AX's except the PI,which is an AT-in a Bassman 50. It gets really loud.Haven't tried to sub tubes since I got the AFB+. Should I?
Tuckster, yes there can be tonal advantages to using lower gain tubes, aside from reducing feedback. It is pretty subjective and the only opinion that matters is yours.
For me the AFB+ sounds best with amps that are already set up for harp. You can reduce the feedback in a stock Bassman (for example) by plugging in an AFB+ pedal, but there is a lot more to ideal harp amp tone than that.
When I first got my AFB+ pedal I felt the same way as 1847: "Now I can use ANY amp for harp!" No, not even close. High gain shrill guitar amps can still howl with feedback at low volume even with the pedal.
My Bassman has 5751 - 5814a - 5751 in the preamp sockets (and several other mods) and it sounds great. With the AFB+ pedal it will get enormously loud and still sound great.
To answer your question directly (Should you use lower gain tubes) I'd say "No!" If your rig sounds good to you then it is good. You might try it -- do an A - B test if you are interested, but your ears are the only ones that count.
Tuckster, I'd also add that it's okay to use a different tube in the Phase Inverter... It does not have to be a 12AT7. The PI is a gain stage and responds differently to different tubes.
Here is something interesting: We don't get much power tube distortion in big harp amps (especially in guitar amps converted for harp) because we almost never have the amp turned high enough to get there, unless we use a speaker power attenuator. Anyway, the sound that we often think is power tube distortion is actually the Phase Inverter tube tipping into distortion. Changing the PI tube value can vary the point that happens. Try a lower gain tube in that socket and see what you think.
