Milsson
62 posts
May 03, 2013
2:48 PM
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I got an idea the other day but first i need some info. What different falvors/genres/time signatures are there in blues?
Of course you can make a reagge blues or a techno blues but i am thinking about the standards you would come across in a jam situation for example:
Jump blues, shuffle, boogie, stop time, flat tyre, rumba... etc etc.
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TheoBurke
385 posts
May 03, 2013
3:07 PM
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ZZ Top at times used unusual time signatures in their unique blues rock sound, usually with success. "Manic Mechanic" is a choice fusing of off-kilter syncopation with a more traditional blues edge, sort of like Frank Zappa collaborating with John Lee Hooker. I think they were first rate in their skill at creating a real post-modern blues sound.
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Ted Burke
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheoBurke?feature=mhee
http://ted-burke.com
tburke4@san.rr.co,
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nacoran
6754 posts
May 03, 2013
3:31 PM
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I usually start on Wikipedia when I want basic information on a vast topic. You end up having to follow a bunch of the links to find out what the different genres are, but it's a good primer. I kind of like Piedmont blues. It would be fun for someone to track down a bunch of representative videos of each subgenre on YouTube and make some viewing lists.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_blues_genres
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blues
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Nate
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Milsson
63 posts
May 03, 2013
6:12 PM
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You beat me to the punch nate. I've got an idea to do some kind of forum collaboration. But i need this info first.
Guess i have to do a little reading first.
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nacoran
6755 posts
May 03, 2013
8:58 PM
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We once tried to do a blues harmonica portal on Wikipedia. We got deleted because apparently blues harmonica isn't big enough to have it's own portal: read we stepped on someone else's territory without being invited and were run off. :(
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Nate
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STME58
434 posts
May 03, 2013
10:55 PM
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I attended Ronnie Shellist's seminar when he was here in San Diego and he gave us a handout with example songs of several grooves, Shuffle, Rhumba, Boogie etc. I have not done my homework yet and looked up and listened to all these songs in order to understand what all these rhythms are.
Whenever I think of time signatures, Dave Bruebeck's "Take Five" comes to mind. I usually think of blues in 4.
Does anyone know of any songs that would be considered blues that are in unusual time signatures like 5 or 7?
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Milsson
64 posts
May 04, 2013
2:43 AM
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Found what i was looking for. Groovetrax by the great Jimi lee. I'll buy it and give you all a review!
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barbequebob
2258 posts
May 04, 2013
7:11 AM
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Dave Brubeck's Take Five is on a 5/4 time, NOT 4/4 which was 99% of blues are. With the different blues genres from jump, rhumba, etc., you also have to go much further in learning about the groove. The real blues sound (especially the black blues music sound and black music as a general rule) is played behind the beat, and in many different delineations as to how far, with the sound of 50's Chicago blues being the farthest behind the beat and jump blues, depending upon what region its based on, is going to be closer to the beat, but if you're gonna do a reggae groove, it will have to be VERY far behind the beat, and that's farther behind the beat than 50's Chicago blues is. If you play in on top or ahead of the beat, you're gonna be playing it in a rock groove.
What does this mean? It's more than just time signatures, but blues as a general rule regardless of the sub genres is nearly always 4/4.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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Rick Davis
1730 posts
May 04, 2013
7:32 AM
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I like Otis Taylor's trance blues.
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-Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Tip Jar
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STME58
436 posts
May 04, 2013
10:12 AM
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Bob,
I appreciate your clarification of time signature vs. rhythm and your giving a bit of info on how era and region are related to a songs rhythm. Now I need to find some samples of the music you are talking about and see if I can pick up on the rhythmic differences.
Odd time signatures, are rare in all music. If they weren't I wouldn't be calling them odd! "Take Five" is probably the most widely heard example of this. The Mars section of Holst's "The Planets" is in five. Most people have heard it in a commercial or movie, but probably won't know it by name. My brass quintet plays a piece called Dance and Interludium, which is in 7/8 but yet somehow sounds surprisingly dance-able.
My blues experience is still a bit limited. I could not think of an example of non 4/4 in Blues and wondered if anyone else could. If it's not in 4, can it possibly even be blues?
Last Edited by STME58 on May 04, 2013 10:15 AM
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greeno
32 posts
May 04, 2013
11:36 AM
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Jethro Tull's "A New Day Yesterday" purports to be a blues in 5/4. Check out the live version on their album "A Little Light Music"
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Greeno
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STME58
437 posts
May 04, 2013
12:23 PM
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@greeno,
Thanks for the reference. I found a live You-tube version. The song seems to be in 4 but with an occasional 5 beat measure thrown in.
I'm not sure if I am hearing it correctly, but the downbeat seems to be delayed, giving it a bit of a 5 feel. The occasional 5 beat measure really throws things off and keeps the tension going in the music.
Bob mentioned different styles being more or less behind the beat. I would expect there are more rhythm styles with the lag varies depending on which beat. I know many styles emphasize the 2 and 4 or back-beat, but emphasis is not the same as timing, though I expect they are related.
It make me wonder what is the "beat". I thought I knew but listening to "A New Day Yesterday" got me thinking.
Can the downbeat be delayed and still be the downbeat? Perhaps 2,3 and 4 are early. Is the beat what the rhythm section lays down, or is it the measure perfectly divided into 4 equal times. What, precisely, is the beginning of a measure? If you are going to determine if something is ahead of, or behind the beat, you have to know where the beat is. Perhaps is is not something you can analyze, but have to feel.
Last Edited by STME58 on May 04, 2013 12:27 PM
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STME58
438 posts
May 04, 2013
1:55 PM
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@JInx,
I think you brought this tread back to where it started.
That rhythm with the piano on the eighth notes 12 to the bar and the bass lilting along is so common as to be a cliché. If you were producing a historical documentary about anything, and you had one measure of that rhythm and bass, your audience would immediately know you were talking about the 50's.
It is in 12 but it feels like four with triplets. If I were counting this song off I would count it in 4. It must have a name but I don't know what it is.
It would be great to have a reference of names for these things. Maybe that would be the presets on a 70's consumer oriented electronic organ. I remember playing with those in the mall when I was a kid but I don't remember the difference between a samba and a rumba.
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The Iceman
848 posts
May 05, 2013
7:01 AM
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In regards to breaking down the 4/4 norm (for many styles of music), I noticed a trend that began perhaps 10 years ago in commercials (mostly radio).
Since commercials are very time limited and have begun to appear in 30 second or less "spots", I've heard the music used for these commercials "chopped and cut/pasted" to fit shorted time slots.
The result is a morphing of even some familiar tunes with a beat or two removed from an even number of measure format into 5/4, 7/4 or whatever the producer decides in order to fit it into the time alloted.
Many remind me of traditional music's "crooked tunes", in which a beat or two are added to a musical line to make it very hard to grasp if you are firmly rooted in metric 4/4 mind set.
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The Iceman
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