kudzurunner
869 posts
Dec 13, 2009
5:46 AM
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I'm sure most people here have come across the following checklist on Overblow.com, but I'm embarrassed to say that I just stumbled across it. It answers a lot of questions. Believe it or not, I have never arced or embossed! And I've been overblowing for more than two decades. I will be moving ahead in the new year:
http://www.overblow.com/?menuid=135
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Shredder
71 posts
Dec 13, 2009
12:10 PM
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Iv'e picked up some ideas also off this site also. I find the arcing isn't worth the trouble and the embossing wasn't needed on my G/M's. I have found the channeling did make a difference in my playing style. I took the idea one step further and use a tip cleaner used in cleaning the holes out on a burning tourch. They are very small round files actually. I make a slight raidus in the cornners of the reed slots on the holes I want to over blow. I then pull the small groove out on the face of the reed plate, like what's shown on the web page.If you try this don't remove to much material, you will have to mush lost breath coming around the cornners. A little bit goes a long way.
Mike
Last Edited by on Dec 13, 2009 12:11 PM
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sorin
113 posts
Dec 13, 2009
7:36 PM
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When he is talkin about arcing , he is actually talkin about not arcing them , keep them as flat as you can , I do it the same way.
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isaacullah
496 posts
Dec 13, 2009
7:54 PM
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Yeah, no arcs for me either. flat is where it's at. I tried the channeling as described at that site. It didn't really do much. Then Chris Michalek taught me how to do it for real (don't ask me how, I'm not at liberty to discuss), and this REALLY makes a difference. Embossing will also make a big difference, but ONLY if done correctly (again, I can't really tell you how you are suppose to do it for real). The single most important thing: gapping. Gapping done right and allowed to settle in properly. The Joe Spiers video is pretty much the key to this (there are some subtleties however). Gapping is what you need to make a normal harp a great harp. The rest of the stuff (and 80% of the hard work) takes that great harp and makes it an UNBELIEVABLE harp. It depends on how much work you want to do (or how much you want to pay), and what you are going to do with the harp. Personally, I'm not a fab overblower yet, so I settle with really good gapping and mild embossing where necessary plus flat sanding of combs and reedplates and that secret channeling technique.
I've just started to experiment with half valving too, so perhaps I that'll be my path to chromaticism, and I won't have to bother too much with overblow setups. Half valving (even making your own valves from scratch like I just did) is about 300% easier than even your basic overblow setup, and results in a very airtight instrument (as airtight as a really good embossing job) in addition to making all those cool valved bends available (which I'm still working on). The tone/timbre of the low blow notes changes a little, but not IMO in a bad way. For example, the 1234 blow chord sounds "tighter". You might miss the airyness of that chord as produced on a normal harp in a few instances, but I think over all, the half-valving is a big improvement. You don't lose any normal bends or affect the tone of any low draw notes and high blow notes (which all bend perfectly normally).
I'm going to work with valving for a little while before I make up my mind, but at the moment, for me, it seems like a better way to go than trying to become a true overblow player like Chris, Jason etc... Instead, maybe I'll end up like Brendan Power or PT Gazelle?
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The magnificent YouTube channel of the internet user known as "isaacullah"
Last Edited by on Dec 13, 2009 7:56 PM
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oldwailer
967 posts
Dec 13, 2009
9:23 PM
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Hey Isaac! I've been looking into this half-valving and I want to try it--I got that you put valves on the first 6 holes of the draw plate--then on the blow plate holes 7 to 10--and, in my research, I found that NoStick permanent oven foil is the best material--I even found out how to make them nice and straight and a good way to install them--but--
The stupid question I have here is: Which end of the slot do you glue the valve to? It seems kind of logical that it would be the rivet end--Is that right??
Last Edited by on Dec 13, 2009 9:24 PM
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wheezer
130 posts
Dec 14, 2009
2:09 AM
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Oldwailer, you are correct. You stick the valve to the rivet end. Take care not to allow any adhesive to get on the reed or in the slot.
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tookatooka
862 posts
Dec 14, 2009
2:59 AM
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@isaacullah@ You said, "Embossing will also make a big difference, but ONLY if done correctly (again, I can't really tell you how you are suppose to do it for real)". Does this mean that the method Chris showed us on his embossing video is not how he actually does it? I'm confused.
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isaacullah
497 posts
Dec 14, 2009
10:17 AM
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Tooka: I am sorry, but I cannot help you here. These are trade secrets that he graciously revealed to me, and that I promised not to talk about. I can say that his embossing video shows ONE way of embossing. It "works", but is not the BEST way of doing it. The way he does it in the video is NOT how he embosses his customs though. Sorry to only be a bit of a tease, but I'm sure you understand.
Oldwailer: Yes, glue to the rivet side. PT Gazelle has said that he only puts a LITTLE glue on the very end of the valve, and glues it to the space BETWEEN the rivet and the top of the reedslot. Then he trims the valve about 1/16" shy of the length of the reedslot (ie, so the VERY tip of the reed slot is uncovered). This helps prevent sticking/popping/buzzing. He also uses "ultrasuede" instead of the oven liner or the mylar/micropore ("ultrasuede" is a patented nonwoven microfiber cloth, and I have discovered that it is NOT the same as "microsuede"). I found it in huge reams at a fabric store, but I didn't buy any because the line to get it cut to size was out the door. I think that real "ultrasuede" is sometimes used for making higher-end eyeglass cleaning cloths and shammies, so I might try looking for some of those.
The micropore/mylar laminate valves I made have a natural curve to them that is, unfortunately, in the OPPOSITE direction that it needs to be (ie. they curl AWAY from the reedplate, not towards it). I tried to correct this using the "curling ribbon over scissors" technique, but the curve didn't set right, and they have all started to curve back away from the reedplate. I might just try a hard crimp towards the reedplate, as that has been recommended by some. Of course, if I switch to ultrasuede, this could potentially no longer be an issue.
BTW, this morning I started to get my first valved bends. You can get great inflections off of the blow notes. Bending into and out of them! The technique I used is just like blow bending...
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The magnificent YouTube channel of the internet user known as "isaacullah"
Last Edited by on Dec 14, 2009 1:53 PM
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tookatooka
869 posts
Dec 14, 2009
10:31 AM
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@isaaculluh@ Yeah I understand, wouldn't want you to break your word. The mystery of the black art deepens.
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oldwailer
969 posts
Dec 14, 2009
11:13 AM
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Thanks for the info, Isaac--that was the best data I've gotten on the subject--I'm going to get some material today and give it a try--this could be fun!
Don't fret, Tooka--I have had the privilege of learning embossing at the master's side too--and it's still a bit of a black art to me--I'm getting better, but it doesn't just happen all at once to get everything right at the same time. . .
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HarpNinja
39 posts
Dec 14, 2009
11:22 AM
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I am confused about arcing. In the pics from the OP's link, the reeds arc down a tad in the middle of the reed. Then, they come up just a tiny bit at the tip. But some of you are saying the reeds should be totally flat? That would mean that more of the reed is above the reed plate.
I am confused as to why you'd chose one over the other.
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Mike Fugazzi
http://www.myspace.com/niterailband
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Buzadero
219 posts
Dec 14, 2009
11:38 AM
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I have it on good auhority that Michaelek achieves his critical embossing tolerances through the use of the left foot of a chicken, wrapped in the downey under feathers from the tail of a golden eagle, dipped in the menstrual blood of a virgin. I'm not really at liberty to reveal all. But, I do know that it involves some dervish gyrations and speaking in tongue blocks. Very intimidating.
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~Buzadero
Underwater Janitor, Patriot
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isaacullah
498 posts
Dec 14, 2009
2:05 PM
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It's a stellar's sea eagle, not a golden eagle, but the rest is pretty close....
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The magnificent YouTube channel of the internet user known as "isaacullah"
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Preston
558 posts
Dec 14, 2009
3:33 PM
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HarpNinja:
I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'm no professional harp modder, but I have been doing it awhile and have tried several different setups. In my opinion (and obviously others on this forumn as well) the flat reed is best with little or no arc from rivet to tip. I've experimented with a slight arc, a big-ass arc, and everything in between.
I would venture to guess the flat reed would allow a consistent and even airflow the entire length of the reed.
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sorin
116 posts
Dec 14, 2009
10:10 PM
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Thank you , Mr Spiers for confirming all my assumptions .
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