ElkRiverHarmonicas
1490 posts
Feb 03, 2013
4:02 PM
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When I play rhythm, I play a lot of chords. When my 48 chord was working, I played chords on it, then leads on diatonic or chromatic. There is no chord you cannot back chordally in some way with diatonics.
But, I often played - and now always play - backing chords on the diatonic and thought I'd pass along how I do it. There are a finite number of chords that show up in each key, the I, II, III, IV, V, VI and VII, with a few modulating, etc. exceptions. I think most people could find a I or IV chord on harmonica, but beyond that, I don't see many people doing chords. I usually use two harmonicas for song for this, and I'll include which one I switch to for that chord as well as what I'd do if I were only playing one harmonica.
Here's a list of chords for a C harmonica, 2nd position, song in key of G. On some of these where you are playing only one harmonica, you are playing 2/3 of a chord. That's OK. Let's say you're playing a AM chord, you are only playing the third and fifth of the chord. That's OK, because the band is furnishing that root note for you and it all mixes together.
I chord: G, 234 draw.
I7th 2345 draw
II chord (rare): Am. 4,5 blow (third and fifth of chord). 2nd harmonica: 4,5,6 draw on G harmonica.
III chord (rare): Bm 3,4 draw (root and flatted third) or 4,5,6 draw on an A harmonica.
IV chord: C any three blow notes.
V chord: D - hardest one with one harmonica, I would play a 1-4 draw split, root note in two octaves, but I always switch to a G harmonica and play 234 draw. This is why I'm almost always playing two harmonicas.
VI chord: Em. Fourth most used chord in the key. 2,3 blow gives you the root and flatted third. You could also play 4,5,6 draw on a D harmonica.
VII chord(rare): F# diminished. 3,4,5 draw on a G harmonica. I don't think I've ever seen it written anywhere that the Richter note placement harmonica has a diminished chord, but it does. It's the 3,4,5 draw and that diminished chord is always a half step below the fifth of the key of the harp (whatever key you play cross harp in, the 3,4,5 draw diminished is a half-step below that.)
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David
____________________
At the time of his birth, it was widely accepted that no one man could play that much music so well or raise that much hell. He proved them all wrong.
R.I.P. H. Cecil Payne
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David
Elk River Harmonicas
 
Last Edited by on Feb 03, 2013 5:53 PM
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timeistight
1073 posts
Feb 03, 2013
4:14 PM
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Good info there, Dave.
I think you made a typo on the V chord, though; you need a G harmonica to get a D chord as draw notes.
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Playing music... it's a privilege.
Kim Wilson
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droffilcal
36 posts
Feb 03, 2013
5:31 PM
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Cool summary ! I could have used this when I had just started playing trombone and harmonica in a dub/reggae group. Of course, by the time I figured it out the band leader's marriage broke up and he moved out of town.......oh well, next time......
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ElkRiverHarmonicas
1491 posts
Feb 03, 2013
5:53 PM
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Yep,. Thanks Time. It is corrected.
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David
____________________
At the time of his birth, it was widely accepted that no one man could play that much music so well or raise that much hell. He proved them all wrong.
R.I.P. H. Cecil Payne
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David
Elk River Harmonicas
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Jim Rumbaugh
827 posts
Feb 03, 2013
8:09 PM
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Another choice for the VI chord that I like to use,
2-5 blow octave split ,
It's like playing the 1-4 draw for the V chord.
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theharmonicaclub.com (of Huntington, WV)
Last Edited by on Feb 03, 2013 8:10 PM
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tookatooka
3197 posts
Feb 04, 2013
4:26 AM
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Interesting post David. Thankyou.
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mr_so&so
640 posts
Feb 04, 2013
11:34 AM
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Thanks for this info, Dave.
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CWinter
11 posts
Feb 04, 2013
12:28 PM
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Interesting post, Dave. I have a couple of questions though. When would you ever play a VI chord during a typical I-IV-V blues progression?
Thanks
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CWinter
12 posts
Feb 04, 2013
12:49 PM
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Your VI chord gives you the root and flatted 3rd which is basically an Em chord, but aren't we talking about a sixth chord here?
The important relationship is between the G note, and the E note. The E is the sixth of G. The G being your 3 blow and the E being, of course, the 2 blow.
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Moon Cat
138 posts
Feb 04, 2013
1:26 PM
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a lot of jazzier blues, swings and Jump tunes have 6's in the turn arounds too...1, 6 , 2, 5. etc...but that would be pretty quick. but there are quite a few blues , gospel and country songs that have solid 6's in them. Michael Peloquin has a tune called MVP (Baseball tribute) that we did as a diatonic harp trio for four or more years in a row...on that tune I ended up blowing long 6 chord while a someone soloed. After that I was able to hear 6 chords a lot better meow.
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Moon Cat
139 posts
Feb 04, 2013
1:28 PM
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also in 3rd major you could use that same 6 chord(cross) chord mouth shape thingy to get a nice 2 chord substitution for the 5 meow!
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Moon Cat
140 posts
Feb 04, 2013
1:29 PM
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3rd position major that is.sorry
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Moon Cat
141 posts
Feb 04, 2013
1:30 PM
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btw I love these posts all about music and playing! Thanks Dave You Rock Bubbah.
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AZBluesHarper
7 posts
Feb 04, 2013
5:29 PM
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Wow...GREAT info! And, I'm quite sure that it would be even more valuable if I knew what the hell you guys were talking about! I SOOOO wish I did!! I'm almost embarrassed to ask...but is this music theory (beginner, intermediate or advanced?)...and where might I find a primer course to help me understand a little bit of it and how it relates to the harp?
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timeistight
1079 posts
Feb 04, 2013
5:42 PM
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What part don't you understand?
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Playing music... it's a privilege.
Kim Wilson
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AZBluesHarper
9 posts
Feb 04, 2013
6:21 PM
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Hi Time...well, first of all, I have NO musical background...never picked up an instrument of any kind until a year and a half ago when I started playing the harmonica (and I hit the big 6-0 this year, UGH!). So...I've never been exposed to any of the terminology...the root, flatted third, etc., etc.. I have a great ear and have found that I can mimick about any sound I hear on the harmonica and enjoy playing along to all the blues harmonica greats. But when I read the music theory stuff on here, I get that "deer in the headlight", glazed-over look and think..."geeze...I should learn more about this stuff!"
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AZBluesHarper
10 posts
Feb 04, 2013
6:27 PM
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Ooops, sorry for the double post...guess I don't know how to edit either! lol And...I certainly don't mean to hijack this thread of David's. It's very interesting reading...just WAY above my head!
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timeistight
1080 posts
Feb 04, 2013
8:20 PM
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"where might I find a primer course to help me understand a little bit of it and how it relates to the harp?"
Here's one online Introduction to Music Theory.
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Playing music... it's a privilege.
Kim Wilson
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Jehosaphat
435 posts
Feb 04, 2013
8:46 PM
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@AZ
No disrespect intended but as a newbie to the Harp and as someone who can apparently "play along to the greats" you could be trying to run before you walk in trying to absorb this stuff.
You can play all night long to the blues and never need to use a sixth chord or two chord etc.
Get yourself embedded into the 1 1v V blues progression until you don't even have to think about it,concentrate on tone and the blues scale .
Then maybe in a few years you might feel that you need a new challenge, thats probably the time to stretch yourself out a bit with a wider trip into more arcane stuff.
If you can play along just by ear thats a gift.
All the above of course just imho based on the assumption that you just want to play some Blues Harp.
And 60 is the new 40 by the way^
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isaacullah
2310 posts
Feb 05, 2013
4:03 AM
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Thanks Dave! Yet another valuable nugget to add to the "Dave Payne" vaults!
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View my videos on YouTube!
Check out my songs on Soundcloud!
Visit my reverb nation page!
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AZBluesHarper
11 posts
Feb 05, 2013
4:32 AM
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@Time...thanks so much for the link! I'll check in out!
@Jehosaphat...you're exactly right! Not the first time in my life that I've run before learning to walk. And perhaps I'm doing some of the neat stuff that David talks about...but I just don't know that I'm doing it. Time for some homework!
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ElkRiverHarmonicas
1493 posts
Feb 05, 2013
9:52 PM
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David
____________________
At the time of his birth, it was widely accepted that no one man could play that much music so well or raise that much hell. He proved them all wrong.
R.I.P. H. Cecil Payne
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David
Elk River Harmonicas
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ElkRiverHarmonicas
1494 posts
Feb 05, 2013
9:53 PM
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You would not believe this incredibly long post that the system just deleted.
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David
____________________
At the time of his birth, it was widely accepted that no one man could play that much music so well or raise that much hell. He proved them all wrong.
R.I.P. H. Cecil Payne
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David
Elk River Harmonicas
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ElkRiverHarmonicas
1495 posts
Feb 05, 2013
10:06 PM
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I retyped the message and IT DID IT AGAIN! I give up. good night. It says "some things need to be changed: the spam code you entered is not right" Then, the entire message is gone. Please fix this.
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David
____________________
At the time of his birth, it was widely accepted that no one man could play that much music so well or raise that much hell. He proved them all wrong.
R.I.P. H. Cecil Payne
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David
Elk River Harmonicas
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clyde
301 posts
Feb 06, 2013
7:10 AM
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dave,
type your long post with your word porgram then copy and paste it on the message area. should work.
clyde
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ElkRiverHarmonicas
1497 posts
Feb 06, 2013
3:06 PM
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----------This whole concept of chordal playing with substitutions is something that I borrowed from chord harmonica players.
Chord players played a lot of pop music, jazz music, etc. back in the day. They used a lot of crazy-ass chords in those days. Some guys – Wally Peterman is a master of it – made new chords by tongue playing more than one chord and tongue blocking out certain notes.
But everybody else used chord substitution.
Let's say chord player looks at the music. Sheet music calls for A minor flatted 7th with added 11th. Well, the chord harmonica ain't got no A minor flatted 7th with no added 11th.
So, your chord player would sit down and look at the makeup of the chord and see what he can do.
So, he looks at that and tries to make chords that he can play by eliminating certain notes.
A minor flatted 7th with no added 11th.
So, he works from right to left, eliminating stuff. He takes off the 11th and has A minor flatted 7th. Ain't got that. He takes off the 7th, now he has A minor. He plays an A minor chord in place of the complicated chord.
BUT, he has more choices. He can also look at what chords are found within that chord. The notes in that chord is ACEGD. There is not only an A minor chord within that chord, there is a full C chord. He can play either one. He can go back and forth between them. When you see chord players dancing all over the place during a song – changing cords when there is no chord change, that's one of the things they are doing.
The other is using chords as notes, like Al Fiore on Peg O' My Heart or Tony Sgro in “Night on Witches' Mountain.” There is no reason these concepts they pioneered cannot be taken outside their genre. It can be done, following the chord scale in the original post. If you think of chords as notes, you can add some unique sounds and flavors to the music.
Moon Cat, you ABSOLUTELY RULE! Moon Cat absolutely knows what he's talking about as always!
Studying chords is good for anybody. When you're playing specific notes, those individual notes - coupled with the band, make specific chords - as in the entire band, including you soloing, makes a specific chord, or it could be discord, but there is a relationship of notes. Let's imagine you are soloing in G on the I chord. You are playing an F note. Let's freeze that moment in time.
Band plays GBD
You play F
Together you play GBDF – and for that brief moment the band – thanks to you - is playing a G7 chord. Iet's say – and this is purely for example's sake -you were overblowing the 4 draw really quick on your way to somewhere else. Freeze that moment.
Band plays GBD
You play D#
Sum of all notes GBDD#
That's discord.
As you play a solo, you make a combination of various chords and discords. This is why riffs must resolve, they must resolve to something that makes a cumulative chord (with the band) that pleases the ear. This is why when you hold the wrong note, it sounds like crap, but if you play it and move on, it can be awesome.
Likewise, in rhythm or soloing you can hold a specific note to change the chord of the whole band. That's a cool power to have. Let's say you hold out an E note.
Band is playing GBD
You are playing E.
Put them together, you have EGBD. You've now changed the chord from G to E minor with a flatted 7th. That's POWER!
Back when I was doing demonstrations in schools, I would bring say five harmonicas in for kids. I'd have kids playing one note of a chord. I'd have three kids playing, each playing one of these notes C – E – G. They'd hold that chord for a little while. Then, I'd add a kid playing an A note. Suddenly, that chord was transformed to A minor 7th. Then, I'd tell the G kid to stop. Now, it's A minor. They were mesmorized by those transformation of sounds.
This whole concept of chordal playing with substitutions is something that I borrowed from chord harmonica players.
Chord players played a lot of pop music, jazz music, etc. back in the day. They used a lot of crazy-ass chords in those days.
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ElkRiverHarmonicas
1498 posts
Feb 06, 2013
3:07 PM
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That was a cut and paste screw up and I can't edit it, just ignore the last two lines and it should make sense.
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David
____________________
At the time of his birth, it was widely accepted that no one man could play that much music so well or raise that much hell. He proved them all wrong.
R.I.P. H. Cecil Payne
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David
Elk River Harmonicas
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