SuperBee
869 posts
Jan 30, 2013
11:01 PM
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Heart-rending. Wtf is wrong with a man that he would do that?
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dmitrysbor
30 posts
Jan 30, 2013
11:49 PM
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South of Chicago populated by afro-americans heavily, pretty dangerous and hardly controlled by police.
Sad story, I would say that it's more community problem.
Last Edited by on Jan 30, 2013 11:50 PM
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dmitrysbor
31 posts
Jan 31, 2013
4:09 AM
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@Kudzurunner: I do not know. Never been to Moscow;) But I lived in Chicago, though.
I think that policy of "broken windows" brings positive results in regulation of crime violence in NY. Not sure that it's correct name of the policy. Anyway, it mean that community don't stand people who not accept adopted laws. At the same time community everytime try to adapt such kind of people and intergrate them into. In Chicago they just get rid of them away from the eyes. Then many of young people feeling "overboard" and go gangs. This is what happens.
Last Edited by on Jan 31, 2013 4:14 AM
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kudzurunner
3890 posts
Jan 31, 2013
4:07 PM
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@atty1chgo: I'm not disputing the statistics. It's all a question of how you talk about them. smwoerner is exactly right: this is about out-of-control gangsters in a poor part of town killing innocent people. Or at least that's how I see it. I suspect that's how AfroBlue sees it--and I'd be interested, actually, to know how he sees it.
If I squint hard at what you've written, it almost looks to me as though it's important and meaningful for you to establish that this is about black people being violent criminals. Establishing that is much less important to me than it apparently is to you. Lots of people would be content to have that be the takeaway point--black people are dangerous criminals--and would be less interested in the sort of point I made, which was a conscious attempt to disarticulate race from criminality by pointing out, for example, that Harlem (except for a slight uptick in Spanish East Harlem) isn't particularly dangerous.
Black people aren't dangerous. Violent criminals and, in this case, gang members are dangerous. I certainly understand why living in Chicago, with so much crime around, makes you nervous.
I will reiterate my original point and then I'm through with this thread: I feel bad for the father of this girl, and for her friends. It's just too damned sad.
Last Edited by on Jan 31, 2013 4:18 PM
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JInx
401 posts
Feb 01, 2013
5:31 AM
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It's only "real blues" because it's blacks?
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Sun, sun, sun
Burn, burn, burn
Soon, soon, soon
Moon, moon, moon
Last Edited by on Feb 01, 2013 7:20 AM
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atty1chgo
595 posts
Feb 01, 2013
8:48 AM
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@kudzurunner - I know you are done with this thread, but my response is this:
"If I squint hard at what you've written, it almost looks to me as though it's important and meaningful for you to establish that this is about black people being violent criminals."
Being a wordsmith, I know that you choose your words carefully. I do too, and in that light I carefully examined the words in my post. The only thing that could possibly be construed to be related to your response above is that I emphasized that black and Hispanic neighborhoods are where most of Chicago's murders occur. Unfortunately, facts many times do not reside in political correctness.
Yes, scarcity of resources is a major factor. But there are scarce resources in many cultures without this much violence. Perhaps it would be more accurate to observe that it is scarce resources AS APPLIED to a particular society at a particular time and place.
Yes, you are right. Black people are not inherently dangerous or murderers. Murderers kill people. But the societal breakdowns which are causing the raft of Chicago murders in recent years can be attributed to Chicago's predominately African American and Hispanic communities. That's just reality. These neighborhoods are where the gang bangers reside. If it is safer in Harlem, maybe we should study the reasons why.
I did not mean to give the impression that I was trying to establish that black people are violent criminals. That was not my intent.
Last Edited by on Feb 01, 2013 8:50 AM
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Goldbrick
28 posts
Feb 01, 2013
9:59 AM
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In chicago , only outlaws have guns-too tuff for an honest man to get a permit and the police aren't on every corner in the 'hood.
Why you think Wolf, Big Bill ,Hooker etc packed a piece
As Heinlein said-" an armed society is a polite society"
Last Edited by on Feb 01, 2013 9:59 AM
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didjcripey
446 posts
Feb 01, 2013
2:55 PM
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@Afroblue: 'People take the chance to mar black people's humanity as often as they get on this forum'
don't make the mistake of attributing attitudes/behaviours to a whole group because of the attitudes of a few.
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Lucky Lester
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joek18
30 posts
Feb 01, 2013
10:32 PM
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@ Goldbrick: "In chicago , only outlaws have guns-too tuff for an honest man to get a permit and the police aren't on every corner in the 'hood."
With respect to your assertion, it is preposterously easy to legally (or illegally) acquire virtually any weapon of choice in Illinois. There are gun shows, auctions, collectors shows, more auctions, estate sales, ranges and more - with almost no distinction between an "honest" man (whatever that means) and otherwise as to whom can get a gun.
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Gerry
37 posts
Feb 01, 2013
11:38 PM
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Although I'm in the UK we still have issues with certain
towns suffering crime/ violence.
The common denominator isn't race but poverty. I'm not saying it forces everyone to be a criminal but that it will make some desperate and others ambivalent to the lives of themselves and others. Throw guns and drugs into the mix makes a recipe for disaster.
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Oisin
1005 posts
Feb 02, 2013
1:38 AM
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As Heinlein said-" an armed society is a polite society"
That has got to be the most untrue statement I have ever read. I don't know who Heinlein is or was but I'm guessing he was a gun salesman.
The UK and Ireland and most of Europe are not armed societies and they are as polite if not more polite than the US.
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Oisin
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Oisin
1006 posts
Feb 02, 2013
2:57 AM
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Goldbrick....there is no comparison. Are you saying we should let everyone in the uk have a gun? All countries have their own issues and although there is a certain amount of gun crime in the UK and all of the other things you mention they are tiny compared to what happens in US cities every day.
Benjamin Franklin was referring to countries not individuals. That's what the military is for.
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Oisin
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Kingley
2282 posts
Feb 02, 2013
4:11 AM
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In the USA because of the relaxed gun laws these issues will always result in events like the one in Adam's OP. What the NRA and the US Government need to do is to stop bickering amongst themselves and get together and try to mend society. Which will never be achieved by the use of guns. To believe that arming people will fix society's problems, is insanity and anyone that cannot see that has some serious psychological issues. If you really want to make a difference in this world and improve quality of life. Then teach yourself and your children to respect people of all ages, all religions, all races, all sexualities and most of all teach them that it's far, far better to give than to receive. Once that becomes the norm, then the world will be a much better place for everyone. Don't listen to the politicians, the NRA spokesmen, the religious leaders or the media. They all have their own agendas. Remember that mankind's own greed is the cancer that will kill the human race.
Last Edited by on Feb 02, 2013 4:49 AM
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orphan
202 posts
Feb 02, 2013
5:28 AM
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You make a good point Kingley:
"Remember that mankind's own greed is the cancer that will kill the human race."
It appears sometimes this greed is Stage 4 Inoperable.
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Whistler
11 posts
Feb 02, 2013
5:46 AM
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I've have lived in Illinois, and it is a know fact the Chicago is still the most racially divided city in america and unfortunately the most racist. I will never forget how amazed I was, after moving there from California,watching a news report of a young Hispanic family being fire bombed out of their apartment because they had moved into a white neighborhood this was done by a crowd of over a hundred people while being filmed by news crews and police presents was non existent.
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sonny3
17 posts
Feb 02, 2013
6:13 AM
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I think the real problem here is the breakdown of the family unit.This is especially a problem in the black community.Something like 75 percent of black kids come from single parent homes. Let's face the fact,Until these Deadbeat dad's step up these problems of violence and poverty can never change.
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groyster1
2149 posts
Feb 02, 2013
6:38 AM
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its been quite clear to me in my 62 years that countless amount of afrrican americans have been the victims of crime by the caucasians....a 14 year old boy hung for whistling at a white woman....5 young girls killed in a church in birmingham by the KKK...dont sterotype....
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Goldbrick
33 posts
Feb 02, 2013
6:47 AM
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My last comment on this
1- Franklin was talking about the evils of a standing army and the need for citizens to protect themselves.
2- This will turn out to be black on black crime( gang bullshit) and not a racist act.
That out of the way-I am a member of a mixed race family and the racism involved here is institutional racism and classism. Lower income areas have always had a higher level of violence because the government tolerates it and citizens who are just trying to get thru the day, have no political clout
My inner city Philadelphia High School had a full time policemen in the 70's when that was unheard of.
The level of violence was still high
I choose to carry a weapon to protect my family-you have the right to choose otherwise.
Chicago has always had a terrible gang problem and they have done little about it-Illinois politics is some of the most corrupt in US history. Knocking down Cabrini Green didn,t solve anything. They have Governors imprisoned and mayors that serve forever.
Its so sad this girl has been murdered for nothing
But I believe unfortunately that nothing in Chicago will change after the politician's photo ops are over. Its also sadder that if she was an average kid and hadn't been to the Presidential shindig we wouldn't even know she existed.
If you glorify gangs,thug life and live fast ,get rich die young sucka-this is what you breed
Thats what makes it a real blues story
Last Edited by on Feb 02, 2013 6:56 AM
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Goldbrick
34 posts
Feb 02, 2013
9:55 AM
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@joek18
This article sure makes it seem more than just my opinion
Take your facts as you care to-no offense meant-guess I will get back to music
http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/The-312/October-2012/Chicago-Gang-Factions-Breaking-the-Gang-Violence-Equation/
Last Edited by on Feb 02, 2013 9:56 AM
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Thievin' Heathen
141 posts
Feb 02, 2013
10:25 AM
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The story here is that some deranged person perceived kids trying to find shelter from the rain as a hostile threat to his territory and decided to spray a bus stop carousel with bullets.
That seems almost too damn broke to fix. Oddly enough, one of the people who once upon a time tried to address the situation at the local level is now going to try to fix it from the head office.
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Goldbrick
37 posts
Feb 02, 2013
2:23 PM
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What is confusing ?
" McCarthy’s citywide gang audit, completed in May, shows that Chicago now has 59 active street gangs with 625 factions. That’s up from 500 factions and 68 gangs in 2003. This continued fracturing of the local gangs, McCarthy believes, is the reason for the rash of recent violence."
So whatever they did if you wish to see it that way doesn't work
so is it political incompetence or apathy ?-the result is gang activity is up and streets are unsafe
Off to a gig in a sketchy Miami area-should be fun
Last Edited by on Feb 02, 2013 2:26 PM
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