John Woolcock
3 posts
Jan 18, 2013
6:03 PM
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So, on Adam's suggestion, I just purchased a Hohner Crossover in the key of G. I am absolutely floored by the tone and the responsiveness of this instrument. There is obviously something important with the selection of the bamboo comb with this harp. Kudos to Hohner for the choice of material. The harmonic overtones that I am getting from this instrument have not been heard on the Special 20 or the 1896 Marine Band. My dilemma now is choosing the next key for my next purchase. I am telling you- you have to try it. This harp was dead-on out of the box and will literally blow you away. I have been playing the harmonica for only 1 year and this instrument has lit a fire under my need to practice. The price is almost double that of the standard 1896 Marine Band, but it is worth every penny. Adam- thanks so much for the suggestion.
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Jehosaphat
414 posts
Jan 18, 2013
6:55 PM
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Yeah they are a very good harp.I am looking at getting a couple more.
I have put bamboo combs on most of my L/Os and it raises them another notch in playability.
More airtight than the standard plastic combs,it's aplus that imo they also look look and feel better.
I reckon anyone with some unused L/Os lying around should try it on one of them just to see if they like it.
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rbeetsme
1064 posts
Jan 18, 2013
6:54 PM
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"I hate reviews like this!"' said the man with a full set of MB's in his case and a boatload of extras.
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Jehosaphat
415 posts
Jan 18, 2013
7:11 PM
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@rbeetsme lol
If it makes you feel better here's a man with a case of L/Os.
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CarlA
240 posts
Jan 18, 2013
7:23 PM
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Just got my x/o in key C D F. Play perfectly and OB almost as easily as my Joe Spiers sp20. Amazing harp which may eventually replace my sp 20, which I love.
-Carl
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kudzurunner
3829 posts
Jan 18, 2013
7:45 PM
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John:
I like the Crossovers a lot--I used several different keys on my last album--but I've decided that I prefer the current MB's. The Crossovers give you great responsiveness, but if you play hard, as I do, they can be a little bright. That's good in certain contexts--in a band context, for example, where you're playing amplified and trying to cut through the guitar wash--but in other contexts they can sound sharp. That's the bamboo comb, I think. By contrast, MB's sound smooth, mellow, less edgy.
Porches and Ferraris: great sports cars, very different cars.
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Gnarly
463 posts
Jan 18, 2013
9:01 PM
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I still haven't tried them! Guess I will show up at the Hohner booth (with my Suzuki badge on) next week at NAMM and ask to blow through one . . .
Last Edited by on Jan 18, 2013 9:02 PM
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FMWoodeye
541 posts
Jan 18, 2013
10:10 PM
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As I've posted a number of times, I practice on Special 20s and save the Crossovers for "performance" situations strictly for monetary reasons. If I blow a reed on a Special 20 while practicing a lick (and variations) a thousand times, it's only half the pecuniary catastrophe.
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Kingley
2198 posts
Jan 19, 2013
12:24 AM
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The Crossover is a great out of the box harmonica. I do have to agree with Adam though. I too find the Marine Band 1896 (Classic) has a nicer, mellower tone.
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arzajac
964 posts
Jan 19, 2013
4:23 AM
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They are tuned differently than the other handmade Hohner harps. They are tuned sharper and with a tuning that is closer to Equal Temperament. As I understand it, they are set up a little more rigorously than Marine Bands, too with one more quality control step.
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Littoral
728 posts
Jan 19, 2013
4:37 AM
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Tuned different, yes, or so says Matthew Smart in his Hedrick tuning video. I also prefer the sound of my MBs. I will ask Matthew what the numbers are to change the XO.
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jiceblues
188 posts
Jan 19, 2013
4:50 AM
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I agree , crossovers are not tuned like the SP20' , to my ear .
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Kingley
2201 posts
Jan 19, 2013
4:41 AM
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Yes the Crossover is tuned nearer to equal tuning than the Marine Band 1896 or Deluxe. Which are tuned to a compromised tuning closer to JI.
I just wish Hohner would simply put the Marine Band 1896 together with screws. I've always believed and still do that the majority of Marine Band players would welcome that and prefer it over the Deluxe and Crossover models.
Last Edited by on Jan 19, 2013 4:43 AM
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arzajac
965 posts
Jan 19, 2013
5:55 AM
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Crossover tuning:
Please read an excerpt from a posting Steve Baker placed on Harp-L on this tuning:
0=443Hz w. minimal air pressure, all deviations are in cents, 1Hz =
approx. 4 cents on most tuners
Blow reed plate:
Root notes (1, 4, 7 & 10) tuned to 0
Thirds (2, 5 & 8) minus 5 cents
Fifths (3, 6 & 9) + 1 cent
Draw reed plate:
1-draw is very difficult to measure accurately. With absolutely
minimal air pressure maybe +8 cents, more in low keys. Like that it
will sound right with normal air pressure. It's essential that it
sounds good when played together with 2-draw and as an octave
interval with 4-draw.
2-draw + 4-6 cents depending on the key, at normal air pressure it
should sound at the same pitch as 3-blow
3- & 7-draw tuned to 0
4- & 8-draw 1 cent higher than 2-draw (i.e. + 5-7 cents)
5- & 9-draw + 2 cents (this will mean the 7th chord sounds rough, but
sounds better as a single note. You can even tune it a little higher
if you prefer that sound)
6- & 10-draw 1 cent higher than 4-draw (i.e. + 6-8 cents)
It's highly recommended to check that all perfect intervals (octaves,
fifths and fourths) sound without interference beats. This is what
piano tuners do too. You'll find it's damnably difficult to obtain
constant readings from your tuner and I can only recommend playing
very softly indeed and holding the note for a long time so you get a
fairly clear note value. I use a Korg MT-1200 tuner with a built-in
spread which tunes the upper octaves slightly sharper (as do piano
tuners) and use the smallest spread the machine offers. It's hard to
work to this degree of accuracy with a tuner which only shows Hz values.
Hope this will be of assistance,
Steve Baker
www.stevebaker.de
www.bluesculture.com
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arzajac
969 posts
Jan 21, 2013
6:05 PM
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I've had three different conversations with three different people over the past three days about the Crossover's tuning. I figured I'd post my thoughts here.
The blow plate is A=443 with the thirds being somewhat less flat that the usual Hohner compromise tuning. It's much like the Manji compromise tuning - closer to ET but still a compromise.
The draw plate is real-world tuned. I think because draw notes are usually more expressive than blow notes, many people hit them harder. As a consequence, the harder you hit a note, the flatter it will be. By tuning the root note to +6 (draw 2), the draw plate is really tuned to A=444 or higher. But as you play it, the draw 2 should sound the same as blow 3. The thirds on the draw side are tuned to zero, but relative to the root note (2 draw) they are -6, almost like the blow plate (-5). The rest is again compromise, but close to ET. The fifths are a little flat, as flat as the fifths on a Seydel - again, relative to the draw 2.
I know Jason Ricci used to like his harps tuned to 443 on the draw side and 442 on the blow side.
I think the Crossover is the first out-of-the-box harp to compensate for the fact that the 2 draw and the 3 blow need to be tuned to different values to sound the same. Consequently, the rest of the draw plate needs to be a little sharp.
This is the way I interpret this tuning. If anyone else has a different take, I'd be interested in it. I get a lot of people asking to have their harps retuned "like a crossover."
Some people hate the tuning. I reckon than some people don't hit the draw notes very hard (or hit the blow notes just as hard) and consequently, the draw notes are sharp or just plain out of tune.
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Komuso
135 posts
Jan 21, 2013
6:16 PM
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@Jehosaphat
Nothing wrong with LO;-) Where did you get the bamboo combs? I'd be interested in testing that on some of my LO's. I love the sound of bamboo! (shakuhachi is one of my other instruments)
ty!
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Paul Cohen aka Komuso Tokugawa
HarpNinja - Your harmonica Mojo Dojo
Bringing the Boogie to the Bitstream
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garry
341 posts
Jan 21, 2013
6:19 PM
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a friend of mine who's been playing custom harps for some time now started using crossovers recently. he loves them, says they're better than his customs, hands down.
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Jehosaphat
417 posts
Jan 21, 2013
6:49 PM
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@komuso
I got mine from Blue Moon Harmonicas.But if you google you'll find others.I think Rockin' Ron has them as well.
Anyways i think that you will be surprised at the difference any custom comb will make to a L/O.
I know i was.
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Frank
1917 posts
Jan 22, 2013
10:16 AM
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Joe Spiers mentioned in a thread once a fast and simple way to tune harps that works for my style of playing really well...
Pick a number...442=0,443=0 or 444=0 and tune all the notes to one of those choices >> except the 3rd's and 7th's of your 2nd pos draw chord AND the 3rd's of your 1st pos blow chord <<
Tune those to either 438=0 or 440=0
finished :)
Last Edited by on Jan 22, 2013 10:21 AM
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Kingley
2232 posts
Jan 22, 2013
10:07 AM
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That's a cool tip Frank.
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Frank
1918 posts
Jan 22, 2013
10:23 AM
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Trust me, thank Joe...THANKS JOE !!!!!!
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Kingley
2234 posts
Jan 22, 2013
10:16 AM
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Joe is great. He's always giving away cool useful tips to those that listen. He has taught me loads with little remarks here and there.
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MP
2656 posts
Jan 22, 2013
11:04 AM
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from arzajac
"I think the Crossover is the first out-of-the-box harp to compensate for the fact that the 2 draw and the 3 blow need to be tuned to different values to sound the same. Consequently, the rest of the draw plate needs to be a little sharp.
This is the way I interpret this tuning. If anyone else has a different take, I'd be interested in it."
good point Andrew!
i was confused when i received my first Crossover. i liked the tuning but didn't understand it one bit and just figured those Germans were laughing at my math. After i read Steve Bakers HarpL post (i keep it as a reference) i was plunged further into the darkness.
the draw one was wildly sharp and beat on the draw split octave 1+4.
since i do that octave a lot, i flat the one draw a bit.
consequently, i've found that it is best not to take the numbers too seriously. this was easy for me since i can only count to twenty if i am barefoot.
i rely on my ears a hell of a lot.
item: with infected ears and two plane flights i lost my hearing for nine days in late 2011. frightening, and i couldn't tune harps or hear people speaking... nothing.
take care of your ears Andrew. see yah! Mark
PS. ditto cool tip Frank uhh Joe!
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MP
affordable reed replacement and repairs.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
click user name [MP] for info-
repair videos on YouTube.
you can reach me via Facebook. Mark Prados
Last Edited by on Jan 22, 2013 11:08 AM
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Rgsccr
140 posts
Jan 22, 2013
10:54 AM
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Based on some of the information in this thread and another on the Crossover, I have a (maybe stupid) question. If the Crossover is brighter than the SP20 with the MBD even mellower, would it make sense to use Crossovers for lower keys - say G,A Bb, and MBD for higher keys? Currently I am playing SP20s with sealed custom combs from Blue Moon in all keys and like them. However, I decided to get a couple of Crossovers, first an A for the heck of it, and then a Bb to replace an SP20 which is going bad. I really like the Crossover in A (haven't gotten the Bb). My ear probably isn't good enough to hear a lot of difference from my SP20 but it's easy to play, loud and sounds good. Since it's fun to experiment, I then ordered a MBD in D to see how it would play (haven't gotten it yet). Now I do understand the idea of having a consistent set of harps, and I am happy with SP20s, but the idea of the brightness (or not) intrigued me. As far as cost goes, the MBD and Crossover are only slightly more than an SP20 with a custom comb. What do you guys/gals think - does this make any sense? Thanks. Rich
Last Edited by on Jan 22, 2013 10:54 AM
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harp-er
320 posts
Jan 22, 2013
11:12 AM
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Based on my one x/over (A), my one Sp20 (Db), and having tried a dozen other harps and landed on the GM with bamboo combs, and if the cost is not a real consideration for you, I'd say go with the x/overs if you like them. Still the best ootb harp I've ever played, and if you like the marine band line, probably the best marine band harp available. All just my opinion, of course, but not really JUST my opinion either.
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MP
2658 posts
Jan 22, 2013
11:45 AM
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from Rgccr-
"would it make sense to use Crossovers for lower keys - say G,A Bb, and MBD for higher keys?"
if you can tell the difference and don't care for it by all means, Yes!
i'm building a personal set of GMs (just to own a set of all the Hohner hand made models)
now live, i'll only play my GMs in C or above because anything lower sounds muddy to my ears. but i really like bright harps and high pitched harps. the key of F harp is a fav of mine.
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MP
affordable reed replacement and repairs.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
click user name [MP] for info-
repair videos on YouTube.
you can reach me via Facebook. Mark Prados
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HarpKeyAl
33 posts
Jan 22, 2013
12:12 PM
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Adam: I totally agree with you concerning the tone of the MB Crossover and the MB Classic. That's why I use both harmonicas, depending on the context. Playing with the band I usually play Crossovers. But for the higher keys such as E, Eb and F, I mostly play the classic Marine Band, because the sound is less sharp.
Nevertheless, I think that the Crossover is the best harmonica out-of-the-box (at least for my purposes) - it's most versatile in both sound and attack / playing response.
Last Edited by on Jan 22, 2013 12:12 PM
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John Woolcock
5 posts
Jan 24, 2013
5:52 PM
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Yeah- Adam is correct about the bright condition- I think that starting out on a G harp may be the reason for my exaggerated reaction. On a D, Eb, E or F, it may be too bright and I really enjoy my MB on the high registers. The Crossover is definitely more airtight than the Special 20 and I have several of those. I have noticed that playing several different models of harp has helped in the so-called cross-training of sound. I have been able to improve my playing on all of the harps because of the adjustment of flow and pressure that is realized on each one of the different models and keys. I found that I have improved on my Big River Harp because of the time spent on the Special 20, Marine Band and Crossover. The difference that I am hearing on the Crossover is the harmonic overtones that are generated- I do not get these overtones with the plastic-comb instruments. Thanks to all for your input- I really enjoy this forum and look forward to learning a ton of new chops from y'all.
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