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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Rectifier (and other) tube swaps - worth a try?
Rectifier (and other) tube swaps - worth a try?
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Harpwood
5 posts
Jan 14, 2013
12:53 PM
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On Saturday I spontaneously decided to swap the 5881 and the GZ34 for the good old 6v6 and a 5y3 in my Marble Max for a gig in our local pub. I totally loved what I got out of that tiny thing. I`d totally forgotten about the sweet and creamy distortion of the 6v6 I gave up for the bottom end and that bit more of headroom of the 5881 setup. Glad I did it!
Anyway, Sunday afternoon I spent thinking about what kind of tube swaps (brand- not model-wise) would probably make sense for a SE Champ-like amp like the Max. In case of 6v6's there are many alternatives. Sooner or later I'll try a NOS 6v6 and maybe a JJ (I got the amp with the EH that's inside of it right now...), but what about the 5y3. There's a Ruby inside, but would it make a difference to put in something else? NOS, or current production? Or is the change in change sound I could expect rather negligible?
By the way, preamp is a Sovtek 6SL7. I have a Tungsol RI at hand which I will give a try. Has anyone tried other 6SL7's?
As always, any input would be highly appreciated. I'll keep you updated once I played around with the tube setup a wee bit.
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HawkeyeKane
1391 posts
Jan 14, 2013
2:07 PM
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I've never had an amp with a 6SL7 preamp so I can't advise you there. But in terms of the 5Y3 and 6V6, you're on the right track.
IMHO, JJ is the best current production tube out there. But I'm old school for my age, and I have a well-earned affinity for NOS tubes. A JJ 5Y3 wouldn't be a bad move, but if you could get your hands on an NOS one, maybe Sylvania, GE, Phillips, or Raytheon, you wouldn't be disappointed either. I just swapped out the Sylvania 12AX7 driver in my Alamo for a Raytheon 12AX7 from my Kalamazoo. The Alamo seems to have a bit more punch to it now.
The 6V6 is really the tube out of those two that might alter the sound. Rectifier swapping would probably be negligible...unless you put in like a Yellow Jacket or copper cap SS rectifier adapter which won't allow as much sag in the power. Only way you'll know if there's any difference is to actually do the swap and see what happens.
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Hawkeye Kane
Last Edited by on Jan 14, 2013 2:11 PM
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MN
235 posts
Jan 14, 2013
2:47 PM
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Apro pos of nothing, I too have a Marble Max. Great little amp! Mine is from 2003 and it's my lone gigging amp. I recently replaced the 12ay7 with a 12ax7. Counter-intuitive for harp, I know. But I love the result. I still get a ton of volume, but with more punch and clarity.
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5F6H
1495 posts
Jan 15, 2013
4:41 AM
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Like MN, I like a higher gain preamp than 12AY7 tube in the Marble Max, 5751 or 12AX7.
Ruby aren't a manufacturer of tubes, just a reseller. Your 5Y3 *may* not sound like a NOS 5Y3 if it is the Russian tube (longer bottle, higher voltage, more like a 5V4, any Cyrillic letters on it?), as there is no current manufacturer of a true 5Y3GT other than the JJ.
6V6s often give the best clarity in these kinds of amps, bigger tubes usually change the tone towards darker, perhaps more compression, but you don't usually get more power/loudness as 6L6/5881 will pull down the operating voltages compared to a 6V6. Even so, you might like the change in tone. I happen to have a 25W power tube in my Champ (with appropriate mods, which the Max doesn't need as it is built to take 6L6/5881 as plug-in options), with a NOS 5Y3, to soften it up a little, but if I wanted max clarity & loudness I'd go back to 6V6.
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Last Edited by on Jan 15, 2013 4:42 AM
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HawkeyeKane
1393 posts
Jan 15, 2013
7:39 AM
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"...as there is no current manufacturer of a true 5Y3GT other than the JJ."
I kinda thought that was the deal. So, does that mean Groove Tubes and Mesas are just rebadged JJ's, same way Peavey tubes are?
I know EH tubes in a lot of cases are NOT genuine to the original tube design for any given tube designation. That's why I'm trying to avoid EH 7868's for my Alamo and trying to find any kind of NOS tubes I can.
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Hawkeye Kane
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5F6H
1496 posts
Jan 15, 2013
8:20 AM
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Groove Tubes, Mesa & others rebadge existing tubes, they can come from any number of sources (usually Russia or China). NOS 5Y3 are still plenty cheap, so it's possible they could be rebadging & passing on old stuff (IIRC Fender were using the Russian high voltage 5Y3 in the "57 Deluxe" 5E3?)
There's no reason to avoid EH tubes, as long as they sound good (the 6V6 are good if you don't smash them with current), they're made in the Saratov plant with input from New Sensor (like the resurrected Tung Sol brand).
Judge a tube on what it sounds like in a given amp & reliability, not concept.
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Last Edited by on Jan 15, 2013 9:24 AM
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HawkeyeKane
1395 posts
Jan 15, 2013
8:17 AM
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"There's no reason to avoid EH tubes, as long as they sound good"
I'm not saying EH tubes DON'T sound good. But if their design is not the same as the original 7868, and they're a different design with a re-pin job, then I doubt they'd sound as good in my particular amp. I've grown accustomed to the sound my Alamo puts out with its genuine NOS 7868's, and if EH 7868's aren't the same in design, then I sincerely doubt they'd give it the same sound it has now.
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Hawkeye Kane
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5F6H
1499 posts
Jan 15, 2013
8:44 AM
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But NOS don't all sound the same either, if you change the tube for a different tube, it will sound different...you'll only know if you like it, if you try it.
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Harpwood
6 posts
Jan 31, 2013
11:48 AM
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I've swapped some tubes in the meantime with interesting results. Sylvania NOS 5Y3 didn't make much of a difference.
A RCA 6V6GTY sounds great. Warmth, clarity, more bottom end, singing... really nice. The EH is not bad. But do I like the RCA better. Brilliant tube.
Interestingly the 6SL7 Tung Sol RI didn't change things to the better. It made the amp sound rather harsh. Even with the RCA inside. The Sovtek sounds much better to my ears. Again, more clarity and warmth was the result, so this tube will stay in that amp.
I'm really looking forward now to putting in a pair of RCA 6V6s into my Princeton clone!
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