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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Why no stock brass combs?
Why no stock brass combs?
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Philosofy
445 posts
Jan 08, 2013
6:43 PM
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I tried the Meisterclasse and Promaster, with aluminum combs. I liked the heft of the instrument, but the taste was horrible. I know thats because of a galvanic cell corrosion due to the steel of the cover, the brass of the reedplate, and the aluminum of the comb. After seeing Chris Reynold's work, I decided to try to make my own brass combs. After a year, I succeeded, and I love the ones I've built. But I have to wonder: brass works just as easily as aluminum, and the major harp producers must get a good deal on their brass stock: why not make a premium harp with a brass comb? It seems like a no-brainer.
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nacoran
6390 posts
Jan 13, 2013
8:04 PM
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I haven't played brass combs (the pics I've seen of Chris's look gorgeous.) I'm not sure what the price difference is, but I the weight difference might be an issue, not so much for playing, but for hauling harps around. I've got two 7 harp cases that I keep in a knapsack. I've never gotten around to labeling them as to which is which. One holds my higher keys, the other my lower. I can usually tell, just by comparing weight, which is which just because the one case has my LLF, which has an aluminum comb. 7 harps in each one, and I can notice the difference from one of them being aluminum. I wonder what the weight difference would be between 14 harps with plastic combs vs. 14 with aluminum vs. 14 with brass.
That said, if it's just a short distance to the door, it's not a big deal, but it might be a pain for a carry-on bag for a plane trip. I seem to remember hearing that one of the Huang designed chromatics (I don't remember if it was a Hohner or a Huang) was actually kind of heavy in the hand by the end of a show because it contained a lot of silver (in addition to being bigger just by virtue of being a chrom).
If I had a set of brass harps I might invest in a pull-along cart, but I've thought about that for my amp anyway, but then again, I screwed up my right shoulder years ago. Surgery helped, but it's never really been the same, particularly with endurance.
Now, how about a brass comb for a chord harp? :)
(Hmm, now you have me thinking... It might run afoul of some weapon laws in some places, but a comb that had a set of brass knuckles protruding out the back would be pretty cool!)
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Nate
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HarpNinja
3080 posts
Jan 14, 2013
5:42 AM
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Cost and labor. Brass combs would cost more money and it is harder to work with than, say, pearwood.
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Custom Harmonicas
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rbeetsme
1049 posts
Jan 14, 2013
5:44 AM
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Chris Reynolds makes brass combs. I have 6 harps with them, yep, they're heavy, but I like them. Plenty loud.
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harpwrench
637 posts
Jan 14, 2013
6:40 AM
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They do, Suzuki Fabulous.
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Custom Harmonicas
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florida-trader
226 posts
Jan 14, 2013
9:39 AM
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This is a question which is very near and dear to my heart. Welcome to my world.
Making a harmonica comb, of any kind, on a commercial level poses a number of challenges. That’s probably true for most products. Anybody who is handy, has some decent tools and is willing to take his time could make a brass comb in his garage. It would take a lot of time and the result might not be a high quality comb. Once completed, how much would the maker be willing to accept in exchange for his hard work? How much would the market be willing to pay for a hand-made brass comb? How likely is it that this would be a commercially viable model? Answer – not very.
To be commercially viable you have to use technology. That creates another set of challenges. A CAD (Computer-aided Design) plan would have to be created which would then allow you to machine the comb on a CNC (Computer Numeric Control) milling machine. If you are not proficient at using CAD software you’ll have to hire a designer to create the plan. Then, assuming you don’t own a CNC milling machine, you’ll have to find a machine shop willing to take on your project. There are small(ish) and relatively inexpensive ($2,000 to $3,000) CNC machines available that are capable of milling metal if that’s the way you want to go. Then you have to house the equipment, maintain it and learn how to use it effectively. In my opinion, working with a professional machine shop that has high end equipment being run by professionals who do mill work all day every day for a living is a better option.
There is no shortage of CNC machine shops out there who you can hire but they have minimum order requirements. Just getting a prototype cut is going to cost $100 - $200 depending upon the shop. With any mass produced product the economy of scale factors into the equation. As more goods are produced efficiencies kick in that will lower the cost of making an individual unit. Making only 10 Thing-a-ma-bobs might cost $50 each. If they cost you $50 each to produce, how much do you have to sell them for to make a profit? And are customers willing to spend that much for a Thing-a-ma-bob? If you make 50 it only costs $40 each and if you make 100 it’s $25 each and if you make 500 it’s $15 each. Sounds great, but now you have to shell out $7,500 for 500 Thing-a-ma-bobs. How long will it take you to move 500 Thing-a-ma-bobs? How are you going to market them? You can see where I’m going with this. It goes on and on.
Machining brass combs (as opposed to wood or Corian or aluminum) presents another set of variables because of the physical properties of the metal. I won’t bore you with the details. It would make an already long and boring post longer and more boring.
You can probably tell that I have put some thought into this. The good news is that I am happy to say that I am on the cusp of making high quality affordable brass combs available. I expect to have them in the next 3 to 6 weeks. I will have brass combs for the following models:
• Hohner Marine Band/Marine Band Deluxe/Crossover
• Hohner Special 20
• Hohner MS-Series
• Hohner Golden Melody
• Suzuki Manji/ProMaster
• Suzuki SUB-30
• Seydel 1847
I just placed an order with my machine shop for 500 combs, including Corian, Aluminum, Brass and a brand new acrylic material that is just beautiful and I am very excited about.
Here are a few pictures for your viewing pleasure. Click on either picture to see more colors on PhotoBucket.com
I will post an announcement here on MBH when they are available.
Last Edited by on Jan 14, 2013 11:57 AM
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Philosofy
447 posts
Jan 14, 2013
10:05 AM
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Forida Trader: that sounds pretty good. But I'm wondering why aluminum is used on the Promaster and Meisterklasse, when it tastes like crap, and brass would be just as easy to machine.
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florida-trader
227 posts
Jan 14, 2013
11:43 AM
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@ Philosofy. The simple answer is that brass is more than 4 times as expensive as aluminum. Also, I have a full set of ProMasters with aluminum combs. I also have a bunch of my own aluminum combs on my harps. If they are anodized properly there should not be any taste. If there is, you can coat the inside surfaces of the comb with any number of sealers - shellac, polyurethane, Protecta-Clear. There's no reason to put up with an unpleasant taste on your harps.
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Tom Halchak
www.BlueMoonHarmonicas.com
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nacoran
6392 posts
Jan 14, 2013
11:51 AM
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Copper and nickel (brass) are both more expensive than aluminum, (if I read the charts right). Copper looks like it's around $3.50 a lb., while nickel is about $7.80 a lb. Aluminum is about $0.91 a lb. Brass, depending on the alloy, melts in the 1700 degree F range, while aluminum melts in the 1200 degree F range. I don't know the hardness issues. Aluminum does have a taste, but it's a taste most people are pretty used to from canned soda. The big companies don't really seem to be in the customization market. They also have to pay a guy to do all the CAD stuff. I think it's just not their focus. There was a guy, (he seems to have disappeared from the web) who was making titanium combs. For durability, that would seem to be just about the holy grail, but it's a pain to work with. There are some other neat metals out there. Alon is what is replacing Lexan in high end bullet resistant windows. It's a ceramic aluminum, but it's transparent. (Transparent aluminum, not just for Star Trek!) I looked to see what it would cost for a comb sized piece. It would run about $200 for the piece, before you even started working it. Silver is the other classic instrument metal. It's pricey too though. I think, for the most part, the manufacturers are building things they know there is a demand for. A stable company with market share, and a product that isn't going to go obsolete is more likely to be pretty conservative with trying new things.
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Nate
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