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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Top-10 & Second 10 lists
Top-10 & Second 10 lists
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Littoral
654 posts
Nov 20, 2012
6:43 AM
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Michael, that is an impressive effort :)
My criteria aligns, I think, with the criteria that is implied by others:
Do I listen to it and want more.
This coefficient factors JR out of the top 10.
Adam, yes, the collegiality, +1 !
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laurent2015
545 posts
Nov 20, 2012
9:40 AM
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If the purpose of such lists is to help an "abstract biting young player" to evolve, I'm not sure the process of classifying would be very useful.
To insist on huge influences that players like SBW or LW could have had, some clues could be added, like "BH"
for Blues History, or "SW" (sound work), or "3d pos" or "ARH" (all range harp)
I learned much on Musselwhite in the above lines, but it's not linked with the fact that he comes before or after Mitsch Kashmar.
Issues about that attempt of classifying (and this attempt is remarkable, because risky business) will never end, and the young player evoked above will simply get lost.
The system of abbreviated clues would be more efficient regarding the results to get: up to now, the discussions are too much "experts brawls", but as experts, you could also define useful criteria (clues or characteristics) that could be applied to this long list's names.
The guys who belong to the Blues history could probably
be fast identified, and for example, I see John Mayall
in Europe, but not JJ Milteau: he has to be part of the list, but for other reasons.
Sure that bordering a list to american players would be easier, but only that is yet a huge work.
I'm not an expert, so this is MHO.
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HarpNinja
2914 posts
Nov 20, 2012
10:28 AM
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Current Age or Age at Time of Death (give or take a year)
TOP-10 ALL-TIME:
Little Walter (Jacobs) - 37
Big Walter (Horton) - 63
James Cotton - 77
John Lee “Sonny Boy” Williamson (aka, Sonny Boy I) - 34
Rice Miller (aka Sonny Boy Williamson, Sonny Boy II) - 53
Sonny Terry - 75
Junior Wells - 64
Jason Ricci - 38
Paul Butterfield - 45
George “Harmonica” Smith - 59
SECOND-10 ALL-TIME:
Sugar Blue - 62
Kim Wilson - 61
Jimmy Reed - 51
Carey Bell - 71
Magic Dick - 67
Paul deLay - 55
DeFord Bailey - 83
Charlie Musselwhite - 68
Howlin' Wolf - 66
Billy Branch - 61
I would love to figure out everyone's age at the time of their largest commercial success as it would probably be in their 30's.
If you do the math of the players still alive....
James Cotton - 77
Jason Ricci - 38
Sugar Blue - 62
Kim Wilson - 61
Magic Dick - 67
Charlie Musselwhite - 68
Billy Branch - 61
Range = 38-77
Median = 62
Mode = 61
Mean = 62
The year is 2012. The average living legend from this list was born in 1949. In looking at when these artists had their greatest commercial success - Grammy Awards, charted albums, hit singles, etc....
It would appear to be most successful in the late 70's to earl 80's. This doesn't include Jason or Billy Branch. It would appear, from a solo standpoint, that none of these artists (save Jason and Billy) have had wide commercial success since then relative to their success in their "prime".
All of these artists, then would have been at their "peak" commercially in their 20's and 30's. All of them have enjoyed success since then, obviously, but not to the same extent (well, Billy might be an outlier).
Going back to the players who've passed, only three made it to their 70's, with one making it past 80. Only 5 of the 13 who've already past lived into their 60's.
Of the players who have passed, all of them (I think Paul deLay too) would be older than 60 today, meaning they to would come from the era between the 50's and 70's.
The conclusion I am reaching from this is that the best way to get on the list is to currently be in your 60's or 70's, lol. I find it of note that there just aren't that many great players from my life time (I am 31). It would appear we've gone backwards in harmonica over the last 20+ years, as these legends all hit their stride decades ago (who are the greats from the 1990's????).
If you look at the categories to be judged upon, they all favor contemporary artists. Originality, influence, mastery, soulfulness, and recorded evidence are all infinitely more accessible now than 10 years ago.
Originality - over the last 60 years, blues cliches have been well established. Between the increase in players and options, finding a niche is easier than ever.
Influence - hello internet forums and YouTube! Anyone with a phone can be the next big thing on YT.
Mastery - instruments are better than ever as are learning aides.
Soulfulness - debatable, I guess, but with the increase of musical awarness, it would be easier, in theory, to communicate your message.
Recorded Evidence - let's face it, everyone has easy access to recording music for others.
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Mike
OOTB Harmonica Price List
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Last Edited by on Nov 20, 2012 10:30 AM
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HarpNinja
2915 posts
Nov 20, 2012
10:34 AM
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All other categories aside, Influence strikes me the most. In thinking of who from my lifetime is a large "influence" on other players, only a few names immediately come to mind...I am very much limiting this to players under 50, most of whom hit it big AFTER the last big blues revival in the 80's.
We're talking people who are an influence for those NOT on forums like this. We represent maybe 1-3% of harmonica players alive right now. I am thinking of people who are relatively famous, well established online, etc...
1. John Popper (not really blues)
2. Jason Ricci
3. Howard Levy...over 50, though
4. Adam Gussow based on YouTube, but over 50
5. Frederic Yonnet, maybe? Not a ton of blues...
6. Brendan Power, maybe? Not a ton of blues...
7. Carlos del Junco? Over 50?
Man, when I even drop blues from the discussion, is it any easier to find really influential harmonica players from the last 20-30yrs?
I can think of lots of guitar gods from my lifetime....Joe Bonamassa, John Mayer, Slash, Derek Trucks...all guys who were from the 80's and beyond.
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Mike
OOTB Harmonica Price List
VHT Special 6 Mods
Note Layout Comparisons
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas (Updated 10/25/12)
Last Edited by on Nov 20, 2012 10:38 AM
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Pluto
246 posts
Nov 20, 2012
11:00 AM
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To me this is such an interesting topic. It serves to remind us all just how much our musical tastes vary.
I study the Walters, Cotton and George Smith now, but I wouldn't call them my major influences. I grew up in Robert Crays neighborhood so I'd have to say Curtis Salgado is my biggest influence. Even though the past few years have been challenging for him health wise, he continues to grow, and prove himself worthy of my adoration.
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Stevelegh
648 posts
Nov 20, 2012
11:50 AM
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Following from Mike's (HarpNinja's)thread, about guitarists, there's one player who I'd describe as a harp player having never been recorded playing one.
Duane Allman. Listen to Statesboro Blues or The Weight with Aretha. They're not your typical Elmore James licks, they're harp licks. Try them. It makes perfect sense to a harp player. He obviously listened in the same way we cop off guitar and horn players and realised that harp licks would set him apart.
I think Duane earns a honorable mention in at least one of the lists.
Sorry to sabotage, but I think it a worthy cause.
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JD Hoskins
110 posts
Nov 20, 2012
1:02 PM
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HarpNinja->It would appear to be most successful in the late 70's to earl 80's
I wonder how much that is the effect of "The Blues Bros./ SRV" phenomenon, and how much had to do with the players. I think commercial sucess has much to do with trends. Early 70's only diehard blues fanantics were buying blues records, most people I talked to had no idea what blues really was, that changed by the end of the decade. For better or worse.
I can never pick favorites, let alone decide who is most influential, but this is an interesting read. It says more about the people making the lists, than the players on the list.
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"Being a humanist means trying to behave decently without expectation of rewards or punishment after you are dead."--Kurt Vonnegut, jr., 1922~2007
Last Edited by on Nov 20, 2012 2:10 PM
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Joe_L
2161 posts
Nov 20, 2012
1:36 PM
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FYI - Dave Wellhausen is now going by the name of Dave Earl.
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HarpNinja
2918 posts
Nov 20, 2012
1:56 PM
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I find it totally predictable that someone making a list would generally pull more from their own generation than another.
For example, whether it be blues or not, I'd say John Popper would be top 10. I was 14 when they hit it big. Everyone ultimately gravitates towards the music of their formative years. Rarely do people mention hearing someone at 50 who was their major influence (assuming the didn't adopt the instrument late).
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Mike
OOTB Harmonica Price List
VHT Special 6 Mods
Note Layout Comparisons
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas (Updated 10/25/12)
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MakaInOz
76 posts
Nov 20, 2012
6:03 PM
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I think opinions are influenced by who you have seen play (not just heard). Down Under we don't see too many people on the list - even the Top 100 list.
I've seen Rod Piazza and Wartermelon Slim once (he doesn't seem to make anyone's 100, but he's great live).
I've seen Charlie M three times. For me, he gets elevated in the list just for that effort!
Cheers
Maka
Last Edited by on Nov 20, 2012 6:04 PM
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