When amplified I really like my MB's. They cut through with their crisp tone in a way I like. When I do more acoustic work with just a dynamic stick straight into the PA, depending on the PA I often find the MB's a bit to crisp. During ordinary gigs that's no problem, I sort that out with the PA's settings and a good microphone ( right now I use EV N/D 468). I'm not talking about cupping and compression, but the full range of open air playing. But when I jump in and just use the vocal mic that type of playing can get a bit treble. What harps do you use for more open air acoustic work? What microphones do you find useful for this playing style?
This is something that Joe Filisko was talking about at Bluesweek this year, playing of a vocal mic is a skill that has to be worked on.
In this video Joe talks about how to reduce the treble coming through with size of the hand grip an where you position the harmonica to the mic, I think it should answer you question.
S-harp: As long as you are not cupping a harp and singing through the same mic you will always deal with this issue. I find it to be a great part of the dynamic range of tone one can get playing acoustically off a mic. When you cup it you get deep and when it is open you get bright. This range is much more broad than a harp held in hand with a mic through an amp. I have been playing off the mic acoustically for 40 years(MB's) in a band, solo, one man band (harp in rack) set ups. When playing with an amplified band with a drummer I keep stage volume at a speaking level. The harp, when played acoustically off the mic, can get drowned out easy.
John Hall, the owner of Bushman Harmonicas, gave me a ton of delta frosts. I find these to be more bass and raspy compared to a MB. I use these for live gigs and save my custom MB harps (done by open door harps)for my studio recordings. The mic at the club is what I use and that almost always ends up being a shure 58 or something like it. When I play small venues I bring a fender passport deluxe 250 PA and sing/play through an audix OM-2. I find this mic to have less treble and richer mids than the 58. Get into the many tones/dynamics one can get playing off a mic. So many tones can be generated by how you use the mic that playing amped has become to 1 deminsional for my liking.
I now play 95% or more of my live harp in a rack in a 1 man band context. I have learned how to get the tones I want without my hands. IMO a good harp player can easily sing and blow through the same mic with no issues. It just takes lots of time to get there. I am sure people will chime in with buy this and that gizmo but there is nothing like time spent onstage. Good Luck! Walter
here is one I recorded and overdubbed the harp (I played all the instruments).
-------------------------------------------------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
vocals/harp in same mic with spontobeat allstars backing me up all done live in 1 room featuring: Sean Carney- guitar (winner of band competition IBC Memphis) Mark Rubenstien- bass (has played/recording engineer with everyone from President Clinton, Natile Cole, Cher, and me for many years in Austin) Katherine'steady baby" Stevens-drums (my current and favorite drummer)
---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
@belfast_harper ... thanx! haven't seen that vid. Spot on! I see now that I've probably cupped a bit too much and lost volume.
@waltertore ... thanx for charing. You've got an excellent tone! I agree, playing off the vocal mic really gives you a wider spectra of dynamics. But it difficult.
@ Leatherlips ... yes, LO' got à bit more mellow tone. I'll do some experimenting with different harps and see .. ---------- The tone, the tone ... and the Tone
I have a full set of MBs. My go to harps. But I agree, occasionally, when playng acoustically they sound too chimey, the tone is wrong for the music I'm playing. I like the Suzuki Promasters for a smoother tone.
If it's folky/country type acoustic playing, I myself like to use Folkmasters. Admittedly, they're not the same harp that they once were. But the ease of play on them is quite respectable, and they're not leaky like most Chinese made harps are. ----------
Phil Wiggins was at Hill Country Harmonica in May of this year. He is one of the top acoustic players around, and to my knowledge he was using Hohner Marine Band OTB.
A good harp player can play on any basic decent level harp brand and make it sound good. Time is the great teacher and this internet tries to continually short circut this. I find this sad because all it will do is put you further back in becoming a good player.
I studied martial arts for 15 years under an old school instructor from Japan. He taught in his yard, picked his students, and did not do it for a living. Regularly highly ranked black belts would come and want to learn from him. He would ask them to demonstrate certain things and every time it was the same answer given- it is not your fault. You were trained by someone who taught you wrong. You will have to unlearn all you know and start over again. Not a one of these students from the pay for a belt "I got a black belt in 5 years" ever stuck around. I see so much of this via the net learning. Walter
---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
CarlA: No it wasn't. He learned his art via his family and said going public would mean he would have to compromise and instead did other things for money. I learned much from his teaching about being oneself and having faith that is what the universe planed for us. Walter ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
I am just starting to experiment with a Rode M1 mic for acoustic harp and vocals. It is similar to SM58, but with a more natural and detailed high-end, closer to a ribbon mic sound.
I got a Sp20 in G for double plating. I've mentioned before how great they are OOTB, but I almost never play them. Well, this one played amazingly well - I could hit all the overbends out of the box and the only one that made any noise was the 8.
I fixed that and retuned it and have otherwise left it with the stock gapping, etc. Fantastic harp and a fantastic acoustic tone. I love the sound of the SP20, GM, 1847, etc when jamming at home. However, when playing in bands and such, the MB seems to work better for cutting through.
@Waltertore - Man I really dig the video/song you put up as an acoustic example. I can see how the experience you describe would stay with you.. forever. Great song you ended up getting. Have you done it the same way twice?
In response to the thread.. Why would you pick a different harp to play acoustic vs. amplified? Me, I've become a convert to Crossover's and Manji's. Both sound great either way. As far as being responsive at low volumes, both are excellent as well.
IMHO playing and sounding good acoustically through a vocal mic is more about practice and technique vs. the harmonica you use. Basically you can't gear yourself to good tone..
It also depends on your approach to playing. If I play acoustic, I tend to not use a cup, whereas I cup to play electric. If I am playing into my vocal mic acoustically, I want something without a lot of bite.
My singing voice doesn't have much presence or cut. Therefore, I get mixed FOH to accomodate that. Playing a harp with a ton of presence and cut into a mic set up to have presence and cut sounds bad. I could just cup the harp, but that isn't my style.
rdfindley56: THanks! Unfortunately much of my life has been seeped in violence and I have been hard at work for the past 35 years to come to peace with my soul. It has been a wonderful journey that gets better everyday! No, I don't repeat songs basically because new ones come out everytime I play. I have no idea of what will come out of me. I find this very addictive (better than drugs :-) ) and to do a standard approach to being a musician doesn't hold my interest. I have been doing spontobeat for over 50 years and I have yet to run out of new songs coming out. It is like being a time traveler. I go on journies of where I don't know. I dig hearing others do songs over and over but as a performer it is of no interest. I do wish someday the ultra conservative music world opens its rigid doors to my approach to music. Either way I am cool because I dig what I do. I agree with you on the harp choice. I play whatever I have. I am not a gear head. I am a painter of stories who taps into the universe for an endless supply of material. See you. Walter ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
The 1847 has the sweetest acoustic tone to my ear. Granted they aren't cheap. This video was recorded with a condensor mic, not a 57 - but the condensor is more revealing and if anything less forgiving than a 57.
Last Edited by on Oct 23, 2012 9:24 AM
You can cut the treble with four very short pieces of tape. Put em over the side vents. This would be according to the Richard Seydel Sr. principle. You can also lay your finger and thumb across the front and back coverplate. This would alter tone according to the Jacob Hohner principle. Richard Seydel Sr.'s theory was having air flow from the sides adds treble. Jacob Hohner's theory was vibrating coverplates add treble. You could also put some duct tape on the covers to alter tone this way.
I know it would have been easier to say just put tape on the side vents and your fingers on the covers, but I enjoy the little history lessons. ---------- David
____________________ At the time of his birth, it was widely accepted that no one man could play that much music so well or raise that much hell. He proved them all wrong. R.I.P. H. Cecil Payne
