Littoral
571 posts
Jul 27, 2012
3:59 PM
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I'm trying to find some people to work with -it ain't easy around here. I created a Craigslist post designed to get my message across and cut through some BS. I figured the "effort" could use some critique around this neighborhood. Here it is:
Blues People?
I'm looking for a few serious blues people. I'd like to sit in or work occasionally.
No SRV, please. Yes, he's a hero, but no. His hero's, yes. Magic Sam, Otis Rush, Albert King...
Problem is, I'm a harp player. Yeah, I know, pain in the ass over playing feedback noise. 99% suck.
There are a few exceptions though. Same with guitar players. And if you don't know who Magic Sam is then the shoe fits...
Sorry, I'm really not trying to be an asshole but if you're with me this far then you understand.
I listen. I play rhythm/comp to conjur a B3. I also do the solo thing, as necessary. Horn lines. Tone. All Pre-CBS gear.
I do soul and funk too -Meters, Ray, Al Green, and even some new stuff -if it's real.
Reply if you got any ideas.
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timeistight
729 posts
Jul 27, 2012
4:10 PM
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Seems a touch negative to me, but what do I know? I haven't had much success with my Craigslist attempts.
Let us know how it works for you.
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JInx
266 posts
Jul 27, 2012
4:26 PM
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If you want to cat fish you gotta use bait. Post a link of you doing some music.
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Burn, burn, burn
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Frank
930 posts
Jul 27, 2012
4:39 PM
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Add a PS at the bottom stating...That you can sing and harmonize :)
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Noodles
164 posts
Jul 27, 2012
4:44 PM
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Just a suggestion….You might consider rewording a couple of things
--No SRV, please. Yes, he's a hero, but no.
--Problem is, I'm a harp player. Yeah, I know, pain in the ass
--99% suck.
--few exceptions
--if you don't know who Magic Sam is then the shoe fits...
--Sorry, I'm really not trying to be an asshole
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Joe_L
1955 posts
Jul 27, 2012
5:09 PM
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Periodically, I troll Craigslist. When I run across an ad like that, I always ask myself something like this:
I am fairly well plugged into the scene and I know most of the blues players who want to play real deal Blues. What is the likelihood that I know this person? Most of the people that I like playing with don't need to advertise on craigslist.
It has been my experience that the people who post these ads that are somewhat negatively toned aren't people that I want to hang with. Many blues gigs don't pay a lot. If I'm going to play with people, they had better be a good hang and/or be people that I can learn stuff from. An ad like that doesn't sound like it was written by someone who would meet either of those criteria.
The blues scene in most cities is small. Get out and meet people. You'll end up with stories to tell.
Just sayin'!
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The Blues Photo Gallery
Last Edited by on Jul 27, 2012 5:11 PM
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Littoral
572 posts
Jul 27, 2012
6:30 PM
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Thanks all. Frank, problem is, my singing is pretty rough.
Miles, fluff? What exactly is it? Line 1:
"I'm looking for a few serious blues people. I'd like to sit in or work occasionally."
Joe L., agreed, and some context would have helped. I live in the boonies and the nearest town (Tallahassee Fl) is about 45 minutes away. I am pretty well tuned in but I figured there's no harm in reaching out and looking for some players that aren't necessarily playing out.
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1847
96 posts
Jul 27, 2012
6:45 PM
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you could do like cat fish frye
get a gig and hire the players you need
my friend big harmonica bob wrote a song
called fifty bucks
basically it was about
how you can get just about anyone
to do anything for "fifty bucks"
i stopped in to a local tavern here in town
the band leader did not play or sing too well
but, he did have the best drummer
and bass player for miles around,
i,d bet he didnt make a dime
but he got to play, all day
and they walked away with fifty bucks
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eharp
1905 posts
Jul 27, 2012
7:53 PM
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i check craigslist everyday.
any ad that comes across like yours usually has people responding on list with comments like, "what makes you think your so good?"
i agree with timesight- it comes across a touch negatively.
blues people?
im looking for a few like minded, serious blues musicians to play with.
i prefer more of the old school players- Magic Sam, Otis Rush, Albert King...
i am a harp player. i've been at it for X years (and am more that ready to get something going.)
I listen. I play rhythm/comp to conjur a B3. I also do the solo thing, as necessary. Horn lines. Tone.
i got the gear and willingness. how about you?
I do soul and funk too -Meters, Ray, Al Green, and even some new stuff -if it's real.
Reply if you got any ideas.
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nacoran
6008 posts
Jul 27, 2012
8:18 PM
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Say you suck and you blow and use your tongue and you are looking for a guitar player. :)
Seriously though, I agree with Timeistight, be a little less negative sounding. You might be able to grab some eyes if you have a video you can link to of your playing (or if Craigslist disables links just info on how to Google you). Might help let people no you ain't no scrub.
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CarlA
83 posts
Jul 27, 2012
8:15 PM
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I got a headache reading that.....seriously!!!
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Noodles
165 posts
Jul 27, 2012
8:49 PM
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@Littoral
Forget Craigslist.
I did a quick Google search for the Tallahassee blues scene. Paste the link (below) and you’ll see the music venues in the area. There are least 4 Blues Clubs on the list. You might want to check them out and mingle a bit. You can also call them and see if the have “open mic” nights. I know of two bands that harvested great harp players from open mic sessions.
http://www.apalacheebluessociety.com/venues.html
Last Edited by on Jul 27, 2012 8:51 PM
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oldwailer
1915 posts
Jul 27, 2012
8:58 PM
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Yeah, I say way negative--but it's Craigslist--might as well fish for trout at the local sewage treatment plant. . .
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Always be yourself--unless you suck. . .
-Joss Whedon
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SuperBee
458 posts
Jul 28, 2012
1:24 AM
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i feel the same way as all other posters here. the original ad is kinda defensive and smacks of attitude. i think it would put me off.
i think eharp's suggestion works. plain and simple, tells the story. if people have assumptions about harp, you wont change them by challenging them in an ad. well, thats what i think. so if they have that attitude, you dont want to meet those folks anyway
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Littoral
573 posts
Jul 28, 2012
5:10 AM
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Ok, point taken, it's negative. Evidently that's how I feel. Just coming off 9 days on the road visiting some culturally awesome places generated some angst about the very limited scene here. I'll edit.
Thanks :)
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eharp
1906 posts
Jul 28, 2012
5:15 AM
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edit?
copy n' paste!
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Joe_L
1958 posts
Jul 28, 2012
8:43 AM
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The original post comes across as negative and bitter. You sound like a harp player with a chip on his shoulder about how other musicians perceive harp players. The tone of that ad won't help your cause. You don't mention if you sing or not. You gain the respect of people by earning it. Your playing will or won't speak for itself.
Here is the thing. Non singing harp players are a dime a dozen. They aren't hard to find. Many have attitudes that aren't good.your ad doesn't tell a good story. I am a harp player, who loves Blues and i am sympathetic to your situation. There would be no way that i would respond to that ad. It reeks of attitude and negativity.
If i saw a guitar player with an ad like that, i would go onto the next one or send an email to find out who has the bad attitude.
Most likely, i would keep reading.
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LSC
261 posts
Jul 28, 2012
8:45 AM
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@1847 - Can you tell me where I can find a recording or the lyrics to "50 Bucks"? That's a great song idea and quite true. It's always amazed me that one can get genuine world class players with super impressive bios to play local bars for 50 bucks a man. The sad thing is around here even that can be hard to get.
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LSC
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eharp
1907 posts
Jul 28, 2012
10:03 AM
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guitar players, bass players and drummers are also a dime a dozen.
and most of them dont sing.
i never understood why harp players get this bad rep.
i have heard as many crappy guitar players and drummers as crappy harp players.
just because someone has bought a $5 harp at cracker barrel and figured out some first position song, does not make him a harp player any more than someone that got a guitar for a xmas present and has figured out three blind mice.
and we harp players aint helping our cause by continually bringing this up.
personally, i have never had anyone roll their eyes or look for a quick lie when i come to an open jam.
has anyone had this experience or are we just repeating what may have been?
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Noodles
166 posts
Jul 28, 2012
10:37 AM
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@eharp
Last Edited by on Jul 28, 2012 10:50 AM
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CarlA
84 posts
Jul 28, 2012
10:53 AM
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@eharp
I agree 100%! You couldn't have said it better. I too tire of hearing that you can't be an established, respected harp player unless you sing. Does an amazing singer need to play an instrument to be recognized as such? Why than do people feel that harp players must sing to give them an edge?? What if I were Pavarotti but could barely hold a harp. Do I have an edge over say Dennis Gruenling who plays extraordinary harp but doesn't sing?
I guess Kenny G must be a "dime a dozen" sax player since he doesn't sing?!? If only he could sing, maybe he would be considered a bonafide musician.
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JInx
268 posts
Jul 28, 2012
11:01 AM
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Part of the problem is that nothing sounds worse then amped harp with poor intonation. I
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Sun, sun, sun
Burn, burn, burn
Soon, soon, soon
Moon, moon, moon
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Frank
935 posts
Jul 28, 2012
11:12 AM
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I don't get the Kenny G. haters either...His music is so full of love, splendor and glee. He might sound like Donald Duck when he sings for all I know - but who cares... he's friggin awesome. My whole family jams to his Xmas stuff every holiday.
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Noodles
167 posts
Jul 28, 2012
11:47 AM
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In my humble opinion...
One thing I’ve noticed about great harp players that don’t sing is how they perform beyond their notes and rhythms in a band setting. When they solo, they step forward and take the stage-- they own it. When they’re not playing they don’t just stand there like mummies. They tend to generate excitement in the audience. They move.
Face it, we play an instrument the audience can’t see, we hold our hands in front of our faces, and, quite honestly, many just stand there waiting for their turn. They hide in the background or just stand there. That’s not entertainment. And, being entertaining is the primary objective, is it not?
Yes, intonation is important. But, playing well is a criterion for all musicians. We obsess over microphones, amps, PA systems, effects pedals, riffs and tone. The audience doesn’t care or notice most of those things. They want music they can feel, music they can appreciate and they want a performance. You don’t have to light your harps on fire, but you’ve got to move and be part of a show. It is as much a visual experience as an auditory experience. Otherwise, (at least to me) you’re a boring player. Stage presence is a big deal. Give me an exciting performer, who plays well, gets along with band members, shows up prepared for practice and gigs and can fire up a crowd and those attributes will put him ahead of the others. Singing is icing on the cake.
So, getting back to the OP... You’ve got to get out there, mingle, play well, show some enthusiasm on the stage and perform with a presence. And, when you take that solo, it’s your moment. You have to “say something”. When these things happen, musicians will seek you out and not visa-versa.
Last Edited by on Jul 28, 2012 12:00 PM
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Littoral
575 posts
Jul 28, 2012
12:02 PM
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I opened the door for advice, I don't have to agree with it. I appreciate it though.
Example, if you happened to have heard the drummer in the recent Gary Primich post, where's he? NO, not "him", but players like him. I figure they're around but they're probably not interested in wading through a local blues jam. I live way out in the woods so connecting with people isn't like real cities. I'm looking. Craigslist was just a pitch. I agreed it was negative and did edit it.
Chip on my shoulder about how harp players are received? Sure, somewhat. We earned it. Cracker Barrel $5, playing in the audience, drunk, wanting to sit in, maybe in key and clueless on changes. HarpNinja raised the "we all suck" a issue a few weeks ago. It may be true with any instrument but I don't know of another instrument that you can fake as quick as you can a harp. If you can't really play guitar, bass or drums then it's obvious right away.
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Littoral
576 posts
Jul 28, 2012
12:07 PM
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Noodles, absolutely agreed. Presence, backing, work the room, I handle it.
There aren't many players around here.
Also, singing makes you worth a cut. Harp alone may not be enough for the $.
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eharp
1908 posts
Jul 28, 2012
12:32 PM
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littoral pretty much nails it.
other players may suck badly, but they dont have the opportunity to do it in public like a harp player.
we can carry one 24/7 and annoy the hell out of folks on buses, in mcdonalds, at parks and beaches at national parks...(i am guilty of this. mammouth caves on an extreme tour. but i asked the other 14 people first!)
but there is nothing wrong with the 2 days of hacking around going to an open jam and doing the ol' in-in-out over 12 bars. folks see him for what he is. it's not like he is trying to reform newblood!
and everyone had to start at some level like this, right?
you keep positive, littoral.
visit jams and network, post your ad on craigslist, find out if you have bandmix.com, start a meetups.com for blues jammers, put out flyers at music stores, do soe busking with bt at places guitar players might go by...
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jbone
1019 posts
Jul 29, 2012
10:08 AM
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noodles said a mouthful there. we entertain. that means on breaks if you are actually gigging, walk around and schmooze with patrons who are paying attention. it means being nice to staff whenever possible. it means dressing decently. one thing i never could take was t shirts, cargo shorts, and flip flops (look at me i don't care!).
harp players who don't sing have the opportunity to fully involve the harp within a song. sometimes i'd rather not sing so i can devote all my focus to playing harp, others it fits to sing and use the harp as more of an accent.
re craigslist: great for car or boat shopping but i have had no success making music connections. i answer ads for singers and harp guys locally.
i answer an ad with a statement about my assets and abilities and skill level, what i'm willing to work on ie motown, swing, jazz, country- and i leave it at that. i am a team player, i want everyone in a band to shine, i help lug gear, show up early, stay late, don't get hammered or smoked out, etc etc. i am primarily blues but like some jazz, country, early rock, folk ala dylan and others, funk, etc etc. if i am fronting i hand off solos to all who want one within reason. these are all details i may mention in replying to an ad.
one of the coolest things wife and i do is play on the street downtown when the weather is nice. when she feels like a break i do some acoustic solo noodling. this is attractive to some walkers, it helps hone my chops, and i have a good time with it. otherwise we are doing stuff we love to do or working on new material. point is, getting out there is key. visits to places where music is on the menu is also crucial. repeated visits and holding out a hand to shake and doing introductions. taking some no's as well of course. maybe getting a rest home or library thing going once a month to both hone skills and have something to show is a good idea. find a store where you can play out front. town square maybe if it's permitted.
i was a slow bloomer at this. i began trying to play at about 17 and was in my mid 30's before i actually joined a band and got busy. it does not have to take 20 years for most people, we all have different stories. the internet and forums like this provide great answers. the next step is to take the chance and keep trying.
if i ever do a craigslist ad it will be factual and maybe humorous. "well est'd harp man/singer looking for gig. duo, trio, 4 or more piece. decades of experience, several genres. own gear + small p.a. own ride. willing to lead or follow. i can connect well with an audience." something like that.
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Joe_L
1961 posts
Jul 29, 2012
10:36 AM
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jbone's ad is better.
Why would a guitarist who wants to play Magic Sam, Albert King or Otis Rush tunes recorded after his Cobra sessions, need a harp player? The answer is they don't need a harp player to play that style of Blues. What does the harp player bring to the table on those tunes? Vocals or playing horn lines. If the harp player doesn't sing, why not answer the ad for a non-singing saxophone player?
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Last Edited by on Jul 29, 2012 10:38 AM
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timeistight
730 posts
Jul 29, 2012
11:06 AM
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Why not run both ads side-by-side and see which one works best?
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nacoran
6011 posts
Jul 29, 2012
12:29 PM
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I'm a big fan of going to open mics. You get a chance to know the musicians in the area, particularly ones who might be looking for a band. Pick up jams can turn into recording sessions and then a functioning band, and in the meantime you get to perform stripped down solo stuff.
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Littoral
578 posts
Jul 29, 2012
2:42 PM
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Joe L, we'd probably agree on a lot of things if we were in the same room but this text thing, not so much. I agree, I like jbone's ad, but it's his and mine was different for reasons I've already explained.
You asked: "Why would a guitarist who wants to play Magic Sam, Albert King or Otis Rush tunes recorded after his Cobra sessions, need a harp player? The answer is they don't need a harp player to play that style of Blues. What does the harp player bring to the table on those tunes?"
Where to start.
90% of what we play wasn't recorded with harp so we have to hear a lot and be seriously creative to contribute. The opportunities are endless.
Are you really saying that you can't imagine what harp to bring to the table on Magic Sam, Albert King or Otis Rush tunes?
Really?-
You can take it back and I'll pretend it didn't happen.
Double Trouble...??? As the Years Go Passing By, Easy Baby, Ain't Nothin You Can Do, Born Under a Bad Sign
????? Ok.
But my point to reference those players in the ad was to filter the pretenders.
Last Edited by on Jul 29, 2012 2:48 PM
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Littoral
579 posts
Jul 29, 2012
2:51 PM
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timesight,
I was just thinking about posting an update about the replies. :)
Zero
Science is my trade and to do an even plausible comparison I should run it a week and then JBones.
Fun anyway...
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jawbone
486 posts
Jul 29, 2012
3:24 PM
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I would just run an ad listing some much sought after quintessential blues guitar for a ridiculously low price!!!! then ask whoever answers if they need a harp player!!! Then if they say No, tell them you gave the guitar to some charity!!!
;-)
PS Don't use your real name!!!
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If it ain't got harp - it ain't really blues!!!!
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jbone
1020 posts
Jul 29, 2012
5:43 PM
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open mic/jam nights are where i cut my teeth, began to really become a member of the whole. it's where i made those connections who later became bandmates whether for one gig or a year or more. open mics were the first place i found people to play behind me as i tried out new songs i had written- some real turkey early on! but those nights at those places are a real fertile place to become. they were the places where other guys would invite me to come out to their gig and let me butcher a song or 2.
and really, if you live in the sticks Littoral, to me it sounds like you'll be heading to the big city to rehearse and gig anyway, however your ad works for you.
you are at the beginning in a way. you may want to consider investing the time, expense, and effort, to get to where the action is, along with running an ad to see who's local. musicians are ubiquitous, they seem to be everywhere! but matching up sense of direction and putting the rubber on the road, that may take some tries.
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Joe_L
1962 posts
Jul 29, 2012
6:03 PM
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You aren't going to get it.
It might be a good idea for you to think like a guitarist. Pass your add by some guitar players and ask their opinion.
Best of luck.
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The Blues Photo Gallery
Last Edited by on Jul 29, 2012 6:35 PM
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timeistight
802 posts
Aug 27, 2012
3:26 PM
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Hey Littoral,
It's been a month -- how many responses did your ad get?
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Littoral
597 posts
Aug 27, 2012
6:18 PM
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timesight, none. :) Glad you asked.
This was, by the way, also after I changed it a lot -the same day. I know the area well but I haven't been playing regularly for the last 10 years. My kids are old enough now and I can commit to getting out more. I hoped the Craigs post might raise something I didn't know about. I've been sitting in and on the phone. Two $ gigs this weekend. More booked. Hit the street and play. If you can, you will.
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Joe_L
2003 posts
Aug 27, 2012
8:43 PM
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I posted his ad and received three responses.
First dude is a really good slide player, but isn't really a Blues player. He's more of a Blues Rock guy, which isn't really Blues. It certainly isn't Magic Sam, Otis Rush or Albert King.
Second person sounded like a good fit, but was 75 miles away.
Third guy was pimping a jam at a bar. He sent me pictures of his guitars that had a lot of sharp edges and his brand new Line 6 amp.
The ad got responses. I guess it was fine. I apologize if I came across curt or terse.
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The Blues Photo Gallery
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jbone
1044 posts
Aug 28, 2012
4:35 AM
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i've been responding to ads on craigs for singer/harp players and have gotten just a couple or 3 responses. it's like with the car and boat ads, if it's gone already people just don't respond.
after 10 years- or say if you're new to an area- there's nothing like physically being there, talking to people, and having gigs booked.
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https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000386839482
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chromaticblues
1319 posts
Aug 28, 2012
11:04 AM
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I have also tried craigs list, but I knew before I started the chances a slim to find someone that is worth playing with or being with that isn't already doing it!
You never know though! I've been running ads for a few months and have meet some people, got a gig from meeting a guitar player. Meet a few screw balls! No big deal! My kids like those stories!
I'll keep trying It's free!
I'll say this I have met some people that are good, just not as into blues as I am! If I wanted to do something else I'd be in 5 different bands now!
In the last three months I've turned down 5 offers to play in Rock bands and accepted one just cause I want to plug my damn amps in once in a while!
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Fingers
199 posts
Aug 28, 2012
11:29 AM
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I used to put an add in a few local music shops just saying expirienced harp player looking for gigs or jams,
i met a few oddjobs too!! i once got a call over a year after placeing the add,
funny thing is i am coming out of retirement to play a gig with a band on the 29 sept!! and have never met them but they remember me from a band i was in 17 years ago!!
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