RyanMortos
14 posts
Dec 15, 2008
5:00 PM
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Of you who are not professional harmonica customizers (or who are but don't mind sharing some tips) yet still dabble with gapping, embossing, etc to help the harp play better/easier where are you picking up your tips on how to best do this?
I'd like to learn a little on the basics of customizing the harp for better/easier play (bends, overblows, etc). I seen a couple videos on YouTube, a really good one by Chris M. but I still feel I could use more information/guidance. I've looked for books on the subject and found none and nearly no websites on the subject. Any suggestions would be helpful.
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~Ryan
PA
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KC69
14 posts
Dec 15, 2008
5:30 PM
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Hey How Are Ya!! Rupert Oysler is one of the best customizers in the business. He is also the North American Representative for Seydel harmonicas. Rupert has a 2 disc DVD on Harmonica Repair and Modification.I had the privledge to meet Rupert. He's not only a great blues player, but also a wonderful guy! You can find his info through Seydel Harmonicas. Any problems let me know, I have his e-mail somewhere.
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GermanHarpist
13 posts
Dec 15, 2008
6:44 PM
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Does anybody know any good videos on youtube (or other hosting sites) where they actually film themselves while customizing the harps? The only one I saw was reedbuster. However he is Italian and thus only the titles are in english :-(I watched most of his vids anyway...).
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GermanHarpist
14 posts
Dec 15, 2008
6:46 PM
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@RyanMortos: I believe overblow.com is supposed to be one of the best sources on the net (says Jason Ricci).
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oldwailer
371 posts
Dec 15, 2008
9:20 PM
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Check out YT and do a search for Elkriverharmonicas .
Dave is very entertaining and gives some great info on customizing--even did one vid with Jason Ricci--I think they were pretty loaded and having a great time.
I also second the advice of KC69 on Rupert Oysler's DVD set--excellent info--he even shows you how to make some of the tools you need to do the job. . .
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danielbs
33 posts
Dec 16, 2008
12:45 AM
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Wanting to learn myself how to fix my own harps, as a beginner i can only recommend the Lee-Oskar tool kit.
It come with pretty much all the tools you will ever need, and a comprehensive instructional booklet.
The price is quite cheap, i bought one one eBay for less than $20.
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Chris Michalek
Guest
Dec 16, 2008
5:50 AM
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The lee oskar tool kit isn't great.
Richard Sleigh makes a good one.
Once you understand what needs to be done you can put one together yourself for a couple of bucks.
All you need is a jeweler's file, shim, flat-head screwdriver. If you look for one of those while plastic security tags used DVDs etc... take it apart and you will find the perfect shims inside.
You can make a reed plinker out of a paperclip.
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tookatooka
50 posts
Dec 16, 2008
6:12 AM
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PLINKER ALERT! PLINKER ALERT!
I thought we'd agreed that we were going to come up with another word instead of plink and plinker?
Not sure what would be appropriate though.
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Preston
Guest
Dec 16, 2008
6:37 AM
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I found a lot of usefull customizing stuff in my wifes witch doctor bag....wait, I meant makeup bag.
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gene
90 posts
Dec 18, 2008
4:58 AM
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Here is a You Tube video showing harp customization:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rt2x0JvsxAk&feature=related
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jim
8 posts
May 13, 2010
2:22 AM
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My small series of videos on customization:
reed replacement
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovg3FmCCxrA
embossing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5b-DuAOKGMw
tuning:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7omLnGRLovM
gapping:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dW6xPL8lOr4
Last Edited by on May 13, 2010 2:29 AM
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bigd
121 posts
May 13, 2010
3:54 AM
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Joe Spiers has a couple presented for simplicity on youtube which would be easy to find on a youtube search
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Myspace: dennis moriarty
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Baker
55 posts
May 13, 2010
5:02 AM
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Hi. These are the techniques I use when setting up a new harp.
Replacing Marine band nails with bolts and screws:
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=proveit#g/u
Embossing and gapping:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCsx4whDuxA&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Emodernbluesharmonica%2Ecom%2Fboard%2Fboard%5Ftopic%2F5560960%2F455273%2Ehtm&feature=player_embedded
I use the technique Buddha explained in his "plinking" video but it looks like the video is now private.
There is also really good information on overblow.com
http://www.overblow.com/
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Buddha
1817 posts
May 13, 2010
5:56 AM
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"There is also really good information on overblow.com
http://www.overblow.com/"
be very careful with the information from that site. Some is right, some is very wrong.
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"The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are." - Joseph Campbell
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Littoral
2 posts
May 13, 2010
6:10 AM
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RyanMortos,
Thanks, Same topic I needed. Why I haven't done my own work on harps before I don't know. I assume that the difference in response is significant. Tone I have, but Jason Ricci I don't. I'm getting a lot of it but my guess is that a more responsive harp will help.
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HarpNinja
461 posts
May 13, 2010
6:15 AM
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Rupert's video is a worthy investment for sure. To go to the next level takes lots of practice and research, but at least a few customizers offer lessons. Buddha does and I've seen Richard Sleigh advertise them too.
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phogi
422 posts
May 13, 2010
8:32 AM
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Buddah,
Could you be more specific? I've just got a load of dead harps I'm fixing up, and many are going to get highly tweaked. My main concern is how to eliminate squeals on overblows. Usually not a problem on my main set, but sometimes I get one that no gapping will fix.
I've used wax and I can't say it is reliable.
I keep thinking I need to sand off all the file marks and retune.
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Buddha
1820 posts
May 13, 2010
8:35 AM
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No.
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"The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are." - Joseph Campbell
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GermanHarpist
1441 posts
May 13, 2010
8:50 AM
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" My main concern is how to eliminate squeals on overblows. " great topic for a new thread... ;)
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YT
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jim
11 posts
May 13, 2010
9:17 AM
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phogi,
lower gaps, embossing (near the rivet in particular), scooping if necessary.
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harpdude61
150 posts
May 13, 2010
11:06 AM
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All I've ever done to my Golden Melodys is gap the reed and I still wonder if I am pushing against the correct area of the reed....near the rivet, the end , or somewhere in between?
Embossing is still something i don't fully understand. Physics tells me that if I have a flat piece of metal with a rectangular hole in it, and I push down on it with an object slightly wider than the hole...the hole gets bigger and the piece is no longer flat?
Sometimes on a new harp the gap looks bigger on one side more than the other...like the reed is slightly twisted. I am afraid to touch this. Anyone else?
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jim
13 posts
May 13, 2010
1:25 PM
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No - you're pushing the walls of the rectangular hole inward. It's getting smaller, trust me :D You can even make it block the reed completely.
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harpdude61
151 posts
May 13, 2010
1:36 PM
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jim. does not make sense ....so as I push it gets smaller? at what point does it get bigger? it has to.
I can see backing up the reed with a flat piece, pushing on it and get larger as it flattens.
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KingoBad
267 posts
May 13, 2010
1:50 PM
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Harpdude61,
You are doing NOTHING to the reed. You are making the reed slot smaller.
If you are working the brass of the reed, you will be making the brass HARDER - which is the opposite of what you want.
Last Edited by on May 13, 2010 1:57 PM
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jim
16 posts
May 13, 2010
2:19 PM
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Man, I see what you mean.
In my video I'm using a glass ball of the diameter that's pressing the slot down much more than to the side. If you do that with a cone - sure, that would have the opposite effect.
Just try.
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MP
265 posts
May 13, 2010
6:07 PM
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i get a reed wrench and move the reed away from the slot so that my socket doesn't touch the reed from the slot i'm working on. it may bump the edge of the seat but that is okay. make sure you push down on reeds adjacent to the reed you are moving so it glides over them.
doing it this way keeps you from bending the reed curvature and knocking it wildly out of tune.(you can work on curvature and gapping (or not)later.
i wrecked some harps doing what i saw on www.overblow.com
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arzajac
180 posts
May 14, 2010
4:53 AM
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Phogi: I don't know if this is what Buddha is talking about but in another thread, Buddha mentioned that some of the techniques shown on overblow.com are "heavy handed".
From what I remember from his customizing youtube video (which is now private...) Buddha would gently and slowly drag a 10mm ratchet down the slot once or twice, then deburr with a shim and then plink. He mentioned that he could plink some reeds for days until it was right. I suppose the tone of the plink changes at some point but I could not appreciate that from the audio on youtube.
This is different from the overblow.com embossing video where Tinus scrapes the shit out of each read many times with a lot of force. Just for fun, I took a POS marine band I got on ebay for 10 bucks and did just that. Sure enough, just about every reed seized up. The lighter touch is faster/better in the long run.
Although I believe one difference is that Tinus is using stock Meisterklasse replacement reed plates while Buddha is using marine band/Golden Melody reed plates. Perhaps there is a difference in how hard you need to emboss there?
I dunno.
While we're at it, since I am scavenging information about customizing, Joe Spiers circumnavigated a direct question about customizing secrets in another thread by saying something like "if you have a few identical marine bands and one of them has exceptional tone, examine it closely and you will find out why that is."
That got me thinking the the more-or-less inconsistent quality in the marine band is a great resource. If you have enough examples of what makes them good and what makes them bad, you may be able to put your finger on a few secrets... So maybe the secret to learning how to customize a harp is to buy lots of marine bands.
Just some ideas to stir up shit and cause conversation...
Last Edited by on May 14, 2010 5:33 AM
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KingoBad
270 posts
May 14, 2010
5:58 AM
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If you go in like a gorilla, you are not fine tuning an instrument.
Embossing a little, then plinking free, then checking your work, then doing it again until you have the entire slot shut down the way you want it is exacting work.
You think you are done, then you reassemble and you figure out you aren't. It is tedious work if you want it done right.
I actually can't believe anyone does it for money, as the time in on a single harp is not really worth your time. Labor wise, a custom harp is the deal of the century.
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barbequebob
818 posts
May 14, 2010
8:31 AM
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Most of the tool kits from harp manufacturers with the exception of the one from Seydel have two very glaring weaknesses, and that's the poor quality of their files and screw drivers and those are made in China and I would give my worst enemy one of those.
The Seydel toolkit, which is essentially the same one sold at http://www.harponline.de, is mainly comprised of tools made by Wiha, which makes professional grade stuff.
Richard Sleigh's tool kit is all pro grade stuff.
The Hohner, Lee Oskar, and Hering tool kits contain one very useful tool and that's the reed alignment wrench, which fits ONLY on their brand of harmonicas an no one else's.
The Hohner kit includes the best glue I've ever found for windsavers, the Hering kit includes individual reeds for a Hering key of C diatonic (sorry, these won't fit any other manufacturer's harps). Suzuki doesn't include a reed wrench because their reeds are spot welded, meaning unless you have a precision torch, you can't realign the reed with a wrench at all.
People complain about the high cost of a custom, but if you get a chance to do ALL of the manual labor that's necessary, you'd think a helluva lot differently.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Last Edited by on May 14, 2010 11:07 AM
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jim
23 posts
May 14, 2010
9:43 AM
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good comparison, Bob!
The reed wrench is easily made from a feeler gauge or any other flat piece of metal....
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www.truechromatic.com
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MP
277 posts
May 14, 2010
10:14 AM
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arzajac,
what harpwrench said. iv'e studied filiskos. if you really look and compare an olympian custom to an oob harp of the same make and model and key you get AHA! moments.
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arzajac
182 posts
May 14, 2010
11:47 AM
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Harpwrench:
I agree for sure. That would be the best way to do it. But if you intend on sharing that information, it probably would get some people upset, no? I mean, I'm not sure how Buddha feels about the two cents I threw out in regards to the question he doesn't want to answer.
How would you feel about someone buying a harp from you, dissecting it and posting everything they can possibly figure out about it here?
Last Edited by on May 14, 2010 11:49 AM
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Buddha
1843 posts
May 14, 2010
12:07 PM
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it's not so easy to reverse engineer somebody's work especially if you don't know what to look for. Some things are very obvious, other things not so much.
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"There are said to be pleasures in madness, known only to madmen."
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HarveyHarp
20 posts
May 14, 2010
6:26 PM
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Its a lot more difficult than just knowing what to do. I am certainly not a Budda, or Joe Spiers, or Felisko, Gordon, Sleigh, or anybody important, but I work on my harps, and my friends harps, a lot, and I have tried to teach them numerous times to do it, and they still can't. It takes a touch, patience, and apparantly reed psyco-analysis.
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MP
281 posts
May 14, 2010
9:41 PM
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one reason customizers don't share technique is because a newby customizer might say "i got my info direct from spiers or buddha or etc"..while putting out a substandard product for the same price and messin' things up by lowering standards.
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Andrew
970 posts
May 15, 2010
5:11 AM
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Begin with the three Joe Spiers videos on YouTube (but he could expand upon these - e.g. by telling us what he's doing and why when he works on the rivet end of the reed). Also your playing style and technique determine whether you should do what Joe says to the letter or whether you should interpret him with care: -
For example, closing the gap for an OB or OD is OK if you are advanced enough to be able to play such a close gap without the OB or OD. It can be tricky. Be aware that if you close that gap, you may need to relearn your embouchure. And if you go on stage (which I don't), I guess you'll tend to play harder there, and your reeds can close up totally, I imagine, if the gaps are closer than your technique is good. If you like to chug along to loud rock and roll, you may not want to close those gaps too much.
If you close that 3-blow gap right down, you may like to play along to Boogie Chillun no 2 with it, to see if you still can!
Stick to gapping to begin with.
Only emboss as a beginner if gapping doesn't work (once your gapping technique is perfect of course).
My toolkit is a penknife (to open a MB) some square-nosed pliers (to put the covers back on afterwards) and an awl/sharp metal point. To emboss I went to the trouble of visiting 8 or 9 music shops to find a tuning fork with a ball end, but you can use a lot of different things, including a small coin. I've only embossed about 3 harps. When you get it right, it has a huge effect, but I still get a little rattle on my G harp's 3-draw. I lack the energy to do more. One of the things embossing can do is rotate the reed so that it is no longer parallel to the slot, and rotating it back into place takes a good eye.
Last Edited by on May 15, 2010 5:27 AM
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Andrew
971 posts
May 15, 2010
5:23 AM
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"if you have a few identical marine bands and one of them has exceptional tone, examine it closely and you will find out why that is."
That's a bit too enigmatic for my liking.
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Kinda hot in these rhinos!
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Andrew
974 posts
May 15, 2010
8:44 AM
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"However enigmatic it sounds, that's exactly how I've improved continuously since starting out. Experiment and observe, test your observations for consistency."
That's fine, but the quote as it stands sounds a bit like "a flash of lightning will suddenly hit you as you realise the blindingly obvious truth" - at least, that's how it read to me. I realise I may have mis-read it
No, I don't want to steal your intellectual property.
But more and more amateurs will need to learn the basics, as the more popular the customisers get, the longer the waiting lists will become.
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Kinda hot in these rhinos!
Last Edited by on May 15, 2010 8:45 AM
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arzajac
185 posts
May 15, 2010
9:24 AM
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That's not a direct quote - I was paraphrasing, since I didn't bother to look up the original post.
The idea (as I understood it) is that there is not *one special secret* to be found by observing why some Marine Bands sound better than others. But that there is lots to find out that way.
My bad for not sounding clear.
Harpwrench: I completely understand where you are coming from.
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Kingley
1170 posts
May 15, 2010
10:20 AM
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Joe's videos on gapping are priceless.
I can honestly say that Joe has given me so much good advice and encouragement to work on my own harps. He often leads you onto the right path by shining a light, so you can discover the way forward for yourself. All you need to do is to look and listen.
Thank you Joe. You really are one of the good guys.
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BillBailey
104 posts
May 15, 2010
2:03 PM
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Thanks, harpwrench. Your good cheer and openness is appreciated. I honor your approach and skills. In fact, thanks to all that happily share what they can and act respectfully.
Last Edited by on May 15, 2010 2:04 PM
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HarpNinja
466 posts
May 15, 2010
2:17 PM
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I especially appreciate Joe's comments on experimenting vs going on what you hear online. There were also really great, IMO, references to making sure you understand what you truly need a harp to do.
Joe, are you currently taking orders for overblow harps?
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arzajac
188 posts
May 15, 2010
5:07 PM
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I, too, appreciate your videos and posts, Joe.
Thanks.
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MichaelAndrewLo
376 posts
May 15, 2010
5:15 PM
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Here's another thanks from me! Joe completed my order in about 2.5 months ahead of his quote of 4 months (I'm not trying to set a precedent, just saying it's great!). Excellent communication and you really listen to the customer. Now everything I read from you seems to have an accent. :)
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Todd Parrott
10 posts
May 18, 2010
12:08 AM
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I'm sure it's already obvious how I feel about Joe's work. The guy is incredible to say the least. I have 6 of his Stage III Golden Melodies and my B-Radical which he also customized for me. I'll be talking more about them on YouTube soon...
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Rikus
28 posts
May 18, 2010
1:07 AM
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Another thank you from me.
Online stuff like this is invaluable my side of the world. I “ruined” a few harps trying out some of the stuff I found online. You’re videos on gapping finally made it “click” in place for me.
R.
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phogi
425 posts
May 18, 2010
3:22 AM
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I didn't mean to stir up trouble. I'm extremely grateful for the online content I've found.
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harpwrench
257 posts
May 18, 2010
7:05 AM
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No sweat phogi, there's no trouble stirred from my point of view!
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