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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
hvyj Finally Plays Harp For His Fans :)
hvyj Finally Plays Harp For His Fans :)
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Frank
783 posts
Jun 23, 2012
2:51 PM
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Well folks, we all know John likes to about how he personally approaches playing the harmonica with all his Top Pro musicians friends. I'm sure he means well and I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt that he new what he was talking about. Anyway, you can decide for yourself about John's harmonica playing. Here is 5 songs he played on in 2010. What do you think folks and fans - can you be brutally honest for us and critique what he plays on these songs.
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KingoBad
1126 posts
Jun 23, 2012
3:00 PM
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Must not be iPhone friendly vids... I can't see them...
Got links?
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Danny
Last Edited by on Jun 23, 2012 3:01 PM
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hvyj
2492 posts
Jun 23, 2012
3:04 PM
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These are recordings of a very rough, very sloppy first or second gig of a band I like to think is much tighter now. I'm not very happy with either the overall performance or my performance in particualar which i think is extremely sloppy, and my time is dragging on most of the tunes. They are what they are.
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HarpNinja
2525 posts
Jun 23, 2012
3:19 PM
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Won't work on my phone, but I don't care. I applaud anyone getting out there making real music in realtime. I have little backing track karoke love.
Hvyj has given more credible info here and on harp-l than 99% of players. Much appreciated.
Frank, you're an ineresting cat to say the least.
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Mike
VHT Special 6 Mods
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas - When it needs to come from the soul...
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didjcripey
302 posts
Jun 23, 2012
3:20 PM
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Since hvyi didn't post these and ask for brutally honest critique, I don't think its fair to comment or take these as an indicator of his playing ability or style
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Lucky Lester
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hvyj
2493 posts
Jun 23, 2012
3:39 PM
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Be as critical as you would like to be. I don't claim to be a great player. On the other hand, i don't consider these recordings to be a particularly representative example of what i do.
I consider most of my playing on these recordings to be overly simplistic, very repetitive, not very creative, and extremely sloppy. In various places, my intonation is not good. I'm not working off chord tones like i should be, and my time is, for the most part, dragging which is completely unacceptable. We were in the very early stages of working up this material and finding comfortable arrangements, but that is no excuse for my time dragging the way it is.
I think i made fairly creative use of the octave divider (MicroPOG) on the last track, but i absolutely butchered the turn around, besides missing a cue and stepping on the guitar player. i kinda like the MicroPOG solo. Not very happy with the rest of it.
Like i said, these recordings are what they are. Feel free to be as critical as you would care to be. There's quite a bit to be critical of.
Last Edited by on Jun 23, 2012 4:42 PM
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MP
2310 posts
Jun 23, 2012
4:06 PM
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oh! so your name is John. hvyj is very hard to pronounce. :)
how long have you been playing harp john?
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MP
affordable reed replacement and repairs.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
click user name for info-
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hvyj
2494 posts
Jun 23, 2012
4:25 PM
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@MP: I started playing in 1979. Took a 12 or 15 year break in there during which I taught myself to play multiple positions but didn't play out very much. Got back into playing out regularly in 2006 but got sidetracked by some surgeries. Got back at it seriously in 2008-2009. Been playing out again pretty regularly since then.
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eharp
1840 posts
Jun 23, 2012
4:39 PM
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like ninja, folks get points just for just manning up to record oneself.
but since john said to be critical- the bends sounded off and the tone was iffy. not that i play any better.
btw- i am listening thru some pretty old and crappy discman headphones.
WHO STILL HAS A DISC MAN!!
i think if the player is a forum member, he should be the only one asking for a critique. i dont think i would like any of my crap, not that this is crap, posted by somebody and told that everyone can fire away.
was this thread meant to ridicule or insult or embarrass hvyj?
i cant believe the moderators are gonna like this at all!
Last Edited by on Jun 23, 2012 4:42 PM
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7LimitJI
672 posts
Jun 23, 2012
4:46 PM
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I think Frank has been particularly mischievous here.
Hvyj, you have good knowledge of music theory, particularly pertaining to harp. So kudos and thanks for sharing that.
But you do have, shall we say, strong opinions :o)
So maybe you set yourself up for a flaming.
Theory is great, but tone,intonation and timing are more important.
When practising the theory, you have to listen to, and be very critical of the actual sound you're producing.
Otherwise, all the theory in the world will not stop you sounding just plain nasty.
IMHO there is far too much emphasis on theory and pushing boundaries and making your "own" sound on this forum.
Players should focus on tone, then more tone, followed by some more tone.
After you've sorted that out, put more emphasis onto the rest.
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The Pentatonics Reverbnation
Youtube
"Why don't you leave some holes when you play, and maybe some music will fall out".
"It's music,not just complicated noise".
Last Edited by on Jun 23, 2012 4:47 PM
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hvyj
2495 posts
Jun 23, 2012
4:49 PM
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@eharp: Yeah, my intonation was shitty, the bends were off and my tone was inconsistent at best. I'm not under any delusions about these performances. You can call it crap if you want--by my standards, most of it IS pretty crappy.
Even during the MicroPOG solo on the last track, at one point i stepped on the pedalboard by mistake and turned off the octave divider in the middle of the solo.
Last Edited by on Jun 23, 2012 5:45 PM
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jim
1268 posts
Jun 23, 2012
5:04 PM
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That kind of depends...
You know, all things got their reasons.
For the thread:
Frank, if you're just personally upset about hvyj being a member here, or don't like him personally, and that's the only reason to start the thread - fuck off.
If hvyj crossed your way for no real reason, that may be another story.
I assume John was quite critical in debates about some things.
But again - that is also very relative. If his critique was useful, if it helped to improve something - then all this bitching is inadequate IMHO.
About the recordings:
Everyone's got some ups and downs. Want to hear some totally shitty takes when I was recording the last piece? False starts, overbends not in tune, getting off beat. I can show you, but what's the aesthetic point in listening to them?
Besides... who really cares? Everyone only cares only about what other people think of their own playing, right?
Everything should have a reason. Being just pissed off at another person is not a reason - it's an excuse. A reason should aim at making things better.
p.s. anticipating your reply about some old flame threads I started... Yes, they had a ground and a reason. Yes, they made things better, at least for those people who wrote me after that.
p.p.s. I may not know the whole story behind this. Pardon my ignorance, I will subdue my emotions here and continue editing my new recording. Peace and respect to everyone.
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Free Harp Learning Center
Last Edited by on Jun 23, 2012 5:08 PM
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Joe_L
1897 posts
Jun 23, 2012
5:10 PM
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@Frank - I've heard other recordings of him play. He isn't a touring pro, but he's a pretty good player and he is out there doing it. I don't understand what you're trying to accomplish. I hosted a jam last Thursday night. If that band showed up to play, I would have been a happy host.
He stayed under the vocalist. He didn't play all sorts of obnoxious shit. What he played fit the song. The band wasn't super tight. He said it was their first or second gig. I wouldn't expect the perfection of execution like the Mighty Flyers.
I didn't think he or the band embarrassed themselves. Not a bad start, if you ask me.
I think what you tried to do is pretty uncool.
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The Blues Photo Gallery
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didjcripey
303 posts
Jun 23, 2012
5:19 PM
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@7limit: good point about tone. It seems to me that tone and timing will make the biggest difference. To me one of the most exciting aspects of this little instrument is the incredible richness of tone, especially when amplified
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Lucky Lester
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HarpNinja
2526 posts
Jun 23, 2012
6:35 PM
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I gave all the tunes a listen. I can't think of one excuse Frank has for posting them, and as I start to think of how he came across them, it makes me even cringe more, but some thoughts...
The playing on these tracks is on par with a lot of what I hear from harmonica players online that play out - especially when they are from a recorder thrown in the middle of a room.
I am not going to say anything about the tone as that is a moot point. On a laptop, etc, most harmonica "tone" sounds like shit, IMO, and I simply hear it as clean or dirty. Like most live clips, the bass is low on these speakers, I hear nothing but highs from the drums (which are too loud), the vocals are too hot, and the guitar is muddy. HOWEVER, that is how just about all live clips like this sounds, so the point being I don't trust my ears enough on stuff like this to say anything other than it sounds clean or dirty.
Regarding the playing, hvyj, who is a bigger man then I as I would take Frank's posting of this as going out of his way to hurt hvyj in multiple regards and probably spout off, hvyj himself said it all already.
IMO, the gem of this whole thread is that hvyj himself continues to represent his skill set the way he has in other threads, has enough awareness to realize his role in the clips, and admits to areas of weakness. Most of the people on this forum would have got defensive and made excuses skirting issues of timbre, timing, etc. Don't make me find specific examples of others reacting this way because I can!
It is one thing to sit at home memorizing a track for months (years), and then replay said tune back over a backing track in a totally controlled enviroment that is extremely safe, then choose yourself to share said audio or not, get an inflated ego over a few compliments about the shared clip, and then go on a posting rampage for weeks on end just to get your name in threads and stir the pot to defend your ego - and another thing to get on stage and try to push yourself.
Very honestly, I don't listen to everyone on this forum because a lot of people lack any credibility in my book. This is my issue and not theirs. The truth is, guys like BBQ Bob, hvyj, Iceman, Elk River and others who post here share information and lessons that, IMO, are easy to back with real evidence and tried and true results. They look beyond themselves when sharing.
I dunno, I have a ton of respect for people who are patient enough to share GOOD information that actually tries to teach others about harmonica playing. I also have a ton of respect for people that do so without some sort of agenda, as most people only do so when there is some sort of social or commercial gain.
I don't really care for posts that are about wanking in search of praise. Feedback, yes. Praise, no.
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Mike
VHT Special 6 Mods
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas - When it needs to come from the soul...
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HarpNinja
2527 posts
Jun 23, 2012
6:42 PM
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I am being hypocritical here, but I think this whole thread and Frank's efforts to spend time digging for clips and post like this is totally classless, and serves as an example of why I have such little patience for this forum.
I've told myself several times in the last few months that I was done posting here, but then remind myself that being annoyed be a couple of people isn't reason enough to give up on the many more people I enjoy interacting with.
This is not an old school vs new school thing at all. It is a closed mindset vs an open mindset thing. It is also a motivation thing. I hang out here because it is about harmonica - not because some people can't control their ego.
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Mike
VHT Special 6 Mods
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas - When it needs to come from the soul...
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JInx
235 posts
Jun 23, 2012
6:58 PM
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The whole thing is just sad, very sad. The blues should not be used this way. Now I have a stomach ache.
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Sun, sun, sun
Burn, burn, burn
Soon, soon, soon
Moon, moon, moon
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eharp
1841 posts
Jun 23, 2012
7:08 PM
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wait a minute, guys.
on the surface, frank's thread may seem underhanded and devious.
but we should not become the judge and jury.
frank- i apologize.
we should leave it to a moderator.
we have the power to turn this into another locked thread with possible 1 or more people getting their feelings hurt or banned.
OR- we can, as we should often do but dont, not let this get personal.
however, i think we should just concentrate on critiquing the songs since the performer gave us the go ahead to do so.
john- i hope you didnt read into my post that i thought your playing/recording was crap.
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HarpNinja
2529 posts
Jun 23, 2012
7:16 PM
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I am sorry, but in this instance (and I like to give the benefit of the doubt), there is no way this wasn't meant to be underhanded and devious.
The whole intent was to make it personal on his end...
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Mike
VHT Special 6 Mods
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas - When it needs to come from the soul...
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Joe_L
1898 posts
Jun 23, 2012
7:19 PM
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@Harpninja - i doubt the way he found them was devious. I came across some track of hvyj's a few year ago.
It want difficult to find. He had said they were out there so i went looking. I didn't feel some weird compulsion to post them. I thought if it was important to him, he would have done it.
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The Blues Photo Gallery
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garry
231 posts
Jun 23, 2012
7:44 PM
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i think the original post was pretty rude. some people who post videos they see and want to share with others. that's cool. others post videos of their own to solicit feedback or because they're proud of what they've done. also cool. but this was clearly done out of spite, and doesn't belong in this forum.
it's only recently that i've reached the stage where i'm comfortable sharing my work on this and other forums. i'm no great player, but i'm happy with how far i've come, and i've gotten good advice and feedback from folks around here. if someone with a grudge had shared my earlier recordings in order to embarass me, you wouldn't see me around here anymore. and i wonder how many other newbies you'd never hear from, too.
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hvyj
2496 posts
Jun 23, 2012
7:45 PM
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@eharp; No, but objectively speaking, I consider these performances to be pretty crappy by my standards. They are what they are. I'm not going to make excuses, but they are not performances i would use as representative of my capabilities.
On the other hand, I don't consider myself to be a great player nor have i ever claimed to be a great player. So, I'm a little perplexed why I'm getting this sort of attention.
I do express provocative opinions from time to time, but you know, i always thought opinions were like assholes--everybody has them. And anyway, I consider a forceful expression of opinion that varies from conventional wisdom as constructive whether you happen to agree with it or not, since it may get people to at least rethink otherwise unchallenged assumptions.
I look at it like this: I played a duo sideman gig on Thursday, i have a gig with this band on Friday and a gig with my regular duo the Friday after that. I like to play my harmonica with compatible musicians and i am able to do that regularly and get paid for it. So, I'm enjoying myself playing harp, and I like to think I'm progressing in my development as a musician. If anyone wants to formulate an opinion about my abilities from the crappy performances on these recordings, well, they are what they are.
I'm not going to worry about it one way or the other. My musical interests are focused on the gigs I play with the musicians i work with, and the practice I devote to my personal development as a musician. I post here because it helps me organize what i think i know about playing harp and I've been under the impression that others find some of that information helpful, which is gratifying. But, in all candor, one of the reasons I've never gone to the trouble of posting other recordings is that it is not important to me what the MBH forum thinks of my playing. So feel free to formulate whatever opinions you desire and post them or not. I don't wish to appear disrespectful but i do not consider the opinions on MBH to be the standard by which my musical competence or development is judged.
Last Edited by on Jun 23, 2012 8:29 PM
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Tuckster
1083 posts
Jun 23, 2012
8:33 PM
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Hmmm- I feel this thread hovering on the precipice.
My opinion- I think Frank has a little ax to grind here. It seems like he had to do some focused digging to find these recordings. Frank- IMHO I see where your coming from but I think it's a bad attitude to take on other players-especially on this harp community forum.
Hvyj- I value your music theory knowledge, but to be blunt your execution sucked.However,I can't judge you on a 2 year old recording. My opinion is actually 2 years old. I never judge a harp player on anything they might post here. At the very least,I'd want to see them play an entire set. I have recordings of myself you'll never hear because they really suck.
I have to pretty much ditto what 7LimitJI said for constructive criticism of your playing. You contribute a lot to this forum. I couldn't just criticize without trying to give you some good advice.
Last Edited by on Jun 23, 2012 8:43 PM
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Steamrollin Stan
455 posts
Jun 23, 2012
8:49 PM
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Whatever, who is this man?
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Thievin' Heathen
5 posts
Jun 23, 2012
9:29 PM
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Is this some kind of recorder stalking?
I need not critique this harmonica player. Most of us, who are not Toots Theilman, play by ear and sitting in with the band is usually the first and only run through.
Please come out my way and record a set of me sitting in with 1/2 a dozen amatuer musicians who have to get up and go to work tomorrow. I will play it on my mp3 all week to look for ways to improve my sound.
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Admin3
1 post
Jun 23, 2012
10:43 PM
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I'm not sure of the intention behind Frank's posting of this thread, but I am locking it before it gets uglier.
It's probably not a good idea to ask other forum members to be brutally honest and critique another member's playing.
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